shtkn Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 post what moves to look out for in this matchup, what moves counter what, etc.
djKun Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 honestly though, I think the first person who can apply pressure (or applies more pressure) and keeps at it will decide who win. Although I don't know what to do after a blockstring that ends with 214A. He keeps catching me at the right time.
bbq sauce Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Although I don't know what to do after a blockstring that ends with 214A. He keeps catching me at the right time. Option select throw tech / Watch for overhead.
Brave Hippo Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 An interesting side note is that a well-timed 5D can punish Ice Car. I think the way you win this match up is by playing the better Jin. Sorry I couldnt be of more use, havent actually played a ditto yet, oddly enough..
kid viper Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 don't fck up. this matchup is a very patient oriented matchup. if you know you don't have the momentum you really can't do anything until you see something you know you can punish. and if you do have the momentum, keep the pressure. once you see an instant block, try and either rapid cancel and block or jump cancel block just to be safe. if you don't see a dp come out then just go back on your offensive otherwise it's a free punish.
Killey Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 I've done a ton of Jin mirror matches and against another competent Jin it's a test of patience until someone can start applying pressure. Beginning of the match: This is a zoning war and whoever can win this gains the momentum until they get countered. This is basically a battle of 5C's, 5D's, 2D's, j.B's, and Fubuki's. You want to be careful with how you are zoning and try not to recklessly rush or air dash in until you see an opening. Rushing in at bad opportunities leads into 5D's, 2D's or Fubuki punishes causing you to lose the zoning war and you'll probably be eating a decent combo that may force you into the corner with Jin's oki game. On top of this you'll have to go on the defensive and prepare for your opponent's rush down game. You want to properly space your 5C's and 5D's but don't get too happy with them as reckless spamming of either allows the other Jin to nail you with 2D into a free combo and sets you up for their rush down game. Take note at their Heat Guage from time-to-time as you want to know what tools they have access to during the entire match. 25-50% heat allows them to aerial 236D's or 623D's to try and bait out counter moves while also adding to their mix up games and rush downs. 50%+ gives them the ability to rapid cancel unsafe moves but they also have access to Ice Wave super to stop certain aspects of your game. It's during this part of the match that you have to play particularly careful. j.B's is your friend in the zoning war as there will be some air-to-air combat for sure. You want to try baiting hefty moves like 2D or 5D with run jump then double jump and j.B as you fall to score a CH into a BnB. Careful with the air-to-air battles as Jin's j.B doesn't hit above him so if your opponent super jumps above you don't bother with j.B and just defend whatever they throw out. j.D can help in these situations as it hits around Jin and if the opponent blocks you can 236A/B/C/D your way into safety. Middle/Late Game: This section here is just general advice that you would apply to any character but once you've found a way to get in on your opponent it's time to go on the offensive. If they are going on the defensive you'll want to experiment with your block strings as much as possible. Mix it up and try to spot your opponent's guard habits and try to capitalize on their blind spots with those hi/low/throws. Cross them up with j.B's or j.D's when possible and only when its safe. If you have to spend 50% heat to rapid cancel for safety then so be it, you definitely don't want to lose the momentum in all cases. If none of those are working then start frame trapping to pry open a hole in their defense or until you guard break them. You'll also want to judge your opponent's ability to IB your offense. You start seeing IB's then be careful with your follow ups as certain IB'd moves leaves Jin susceptible to punishes like 623C. Don't over commit to your rush down when you do have the momentum though as Fubuki's can ruin your plans and turn the tide of battle. In my experience the Jin mirrors become a battle of who can get the other in the corner since his corner game is exceptional, imo, and opens up a lot of opportunities for baiting into a CH that will lead into his high damage corner combos that lead into his oki games with possible resets. Keep them in the corner as much as possible and start baiting for sloppy counters. Again keep an eye on your opponent's heat guage to see what they have available to them as 25% gives them access to 623D out of sloppy rush downs or air 236D to catch you off guard. Air 236D is a good out for Jin as it forces you to block and gives them +22f advantage allowing them to start a rush down and putting you on the defensive. You'll want to bait out 623D as much as possible. I usually like to fake out an aerial attack then air back dash into 236D. It's safe to do and causes your opponent to block allowing you to land and resume your rush down. Jin on the defensvie: It's pretty handy knowing the frame data of Jin's moves to prevent getting frame trapped or taking your opponent's bait but the same can be said for any match up. Knowing how to Instant block 5C, 5D, and Ice Car helps and limits their follow up options. Some Jin's like to follow up a close 5D with 236A. If you can IB the 5D you've got time to smack Jin out of 236A before it comes out and can sometimes cause a trade situation. This could be bad for you depending on what you trade with. Moves that have little hit stun to them allows your opponent to recover and 2D before you can recover. If you can reset the match after the trade it's better as you can attempt another zoning war. IBing helps a lot while on the defensive and helps get you out of his pressure and zoning games and helps maximize on punish opportunities like a careless Ice Car. Keep a good eye on your distance and make sure you aren't in 2D range as careless jumping/back dashing can cause you to eat 2D. Otherwise, when on the defensive keep a cool head and just keep an eye on what your opponent is doing. Don't over extend yourself as they could be frame trapping you or baiting out moves for a counter. You're not necessarily looking for an opportunity to punish but looking for an opportunity to escape from the pressure so you can reset the pacing of the match to your favor.
Onichi Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 Thanks Killey, this will work wonders on all the Jin's I'm facing as of late. I do have a follow-up though, when it comes to air-to-air combat and you've IAD/single jump vs a Super Jump from your opponent, you could use j.c as that hits high and low, with some side to side as well, in case you wiff the j.d, and would set up for a j.d if you want to freeze afterwards. Am I miss informed? thx
Killey Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 Ah yes you are correct about that but one thing to keep in mind is that j.B is 9f startup while j.C is 12f startup so in that scenario I would see what your opponent does before throwing out the j.C. If he pauses in the air then throwing a j.C would be okay to do even if he decides to throw a j.B afterwards.
Darcius Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 Second worst matchup for me (Arakune I consider the worst). I fall victim to the stupidest, scrubbiest shit Jin is capable of.
JinKisaragi Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Second worst matchup for me (Arakune I consider the worst). I fall victim to the stupidest, scrubbiest shit Jin is capable of. Guilty of this too lol.. what would be the best way to punish a blocked ice car? I mostly use 5B 5C ice car, but sometimes they they are out of reach or are able to block. Any more reliable options?
Darcius Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 5b is fine, just time it better. You can get better damage out of it by just doing 5b 5c 2c 214b, and it sets you up for a meaty 5b.
JinKisaragi Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 5b is fine, just time it better. You can get better damage out of it by just doing 5b 5c 2c 214b, and it sets you up for a meaty 5b. Ah was wondering whether the 5b was my fault or just wouldn't work. So thanks for answering, I'll try what you suggested btw!
Killey Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 You won't be able to run up and do 5B on a blocked Ice Car but if you can IB the 2nd hit of Ice Car then you'll be able to run up and do 5B, 5C, j.B, j.C, j.D, land, run up 5C, j.B, j.C, j.D,B.
JinKisaragi Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 You won't be able to run up and do 5B on a blocked Ice Car but if you can IB the 2nd hit of Ice Car then you'll be able to run up and do 5B, 5C, j.B, j.C, j.D, land, run up 5C, j.B, j.C, j.D,B. Hmm I'm not that good at IB, but punishing like that would definitely be worth it so guess I should practice!
AxlGundam Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 I find this match-up rather odd as well. Maybe it's my opponents or my odd play style but I often find that playing defensive against an aggressive Jin works fine. Oddly enough the Jins I faced would never expect me to throw aerial ice swords as they rushed in on me whether they were rushing in on the ground or mid-air. I would also just distance myself and play Jin in a manner similar to Ryu in ST but with combos of course (which I fail at doing half the time) lol. I'm still a beginner at BB so I guess something weird like this may work out for me for now but what do you guys think? Also besides 5D, I find ice swords are also good at stopping ground ice cars.
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