Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Fenris]

Phew. So I guess I am not the only one to notice those weird "parts"(?) on Sayanami's body. (I was afraid to bring it up.) I wonder what the heck they could be and why the heck they're there. I agree with others who are saying they seem quite doll-like. I hope they're just some weird design thing; I don't want Saya/Izanami to be a literal doll. That would suck.

[Volt]

Well probably see more differences in the joint like things when we get alternate colors. It could be something related to her clothes and Saya definitely looked normal in all flashbacks so far. Or she lost a bunch of limbs like her older brother.

Speaking of Izanami, did any Bururaji episodes leak some random information regarding her plot involvement? 

[MaximusMurkimus]

3 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

Small correction but Jubei claimed Ragna would grow up to become either the "Destroyer of the World" or a "Guardian of the Azure". Now, his role as the "destroyer" has been talked about the most (although vaguely), with Rachel herself claiming that the world itself is "sick" with order and that it needs someone like Ragna to bring an end to it. Keep in mind, she didn't say that being the destroyer means "killing every living thing so a big ol' reset button" is pressed. In fact, she didn't even explain how he's supposed to go about doing that.

*Side note: both Rachel, Kokonoe and Jubei to an extent are frakkin' terrible at explaining and being crystal clear. People get on Ragna's case all the time for being a walking pile of anger management issues. But if your only sources of information are a smarmy, smarter-than-thou attitude vampire and an amoral scientist with a penchant for blowing crap up and their typical response to your inquiry is "if I feel like it", you'd be pretty pissed off too.

But back on track. So we got a small idea on what Ragna's supposed to do as a "destroyer". However, his potential to become an "Azure Guardian" is completely unexplored outside of that one mention in Rahna's flashback to when he met Taokaka as a kid and Jubei spoke of his role to Torakaka. In my mind, this really culminates in him acting as the protector of either the Azure's Inheritor (read: Noel, which he more or less is already doing) or perhaps Amaterasu. Alternatively, you could write it up as his role to "save the girl trapped in the monster". But that last one is unclear since we don't know who the "girl" even is at the moment.

Okay, breaking this down and it doesn't seem as confusing as the game presents it (because the game does like to make you figure things out constantly)

Destroyer of the World= Black Beast. Ragna has the potential to turn into this, and most people realize this.

Rachel says the world is sick with order. In this case, the "order" she mentioned could easily be the NOL. Not the organization itself, but the people who run it (Terumi/Relius/Izanami) and the Cauldrons that they produce, hence his journey in CT and CS.

Protector of the Azure= This one is a little more tricky, but if the Azure Grimore he has allows him to tap into the true power of the Azure via Idea Engine while Terumi tried and failed, then he is in fact the best person to protect it from those would use it for destructive purposes, hence the Protector title. 

I don't see Jubei being as intentionally vague as Rachel or Kokonoe, so that must mean that the meaning of these phrases is a lot more literal than we think.

[Fenris]

I just thought of something. Something tells me that those weird parts on Izanami we were pondering about earlier might serve as a sort of aesthetic way to connect her to skeletons and things of the sort to better fit her "death" motif. It does sorta look skeletal, no? I mean, sure, it's a vague/minor detail, but perhaps they wanted to avoid going all-out with it like "OMGSHE'STHEGODDESSOFDEATHSEEALLTHESKULLSANDCORPSES?!!1!!11!!!1!!one!11!?" There's probably some plot-related reason for it, though, but given this series' track record, I wouldn't bet on it. *rolls eyes*

[MaximusMurkimus]

44 minutes ago, Fenris said:

I just thought of something. Something tells me that those weird parts on Izanami we were pondering about earlier might serve as a sort of aesthetic way to connect her to skeletons and things of the sort to better fit her "death" motif. It does sorta look skeletal, no? I mean, sure, it's a vague/minor detail, but perhaps they wanted to avoid going all-out with it like "OMGSHE'STHEGODDESSOFDEATHSEEALLTHESKULLSANDCORPSES?!!1!!11!!!1!!one!11!?" There's probably some plot-related reason for it, though, but given this series' track record, I wouldn't bet on it. *rolls eyes*

You already have her showing her "true" form in her Exceed Accel with the skeletons and the slasher smile and all that jazz, maybe they're not trying to go full Persona with their influences after all.

I was gonna initially pass it off as Mori going "lol get it because Saya is being puppeteered like a doll" but there's usually some rhyme and reason with the designs, especially of major characters. Maybe she isn't 100% in control like she thought she would (There had to be have been only a few days between Relius going "yeah it might be a while before it's stable") and that's a sign to hint at it. Still think the part on her legs is just flesh-colored shorts or something, though.

Maybe we're really just looking too far into this; especially when it doesn't seem to be consistent with all her sprites/artwork.

[Luminos564]

2 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Rachel says the world is sick with order. In this case, the "order" she mentioned could easily be the NOL. Not the organization itself, but the people who run it (Terumi/Relius/Izanami) and the Cauldrons that they produce, hence his journey in CT and CS.

No no, she did explain what said "Order Sickness" is: it is the current world's dependence on the time manipulation shenanigans from all the sources, the most recent of which (as of CP) was the tug of war between Amaterasu and Izanami. According to Rachel, the world has been reset, rewritten, erased and repeated for centuries that it ceased to "function" as it should. Her solution is that someone or something must break the world's current sickly state in order for it to start healing. Notice that hers is about the only claim that wants a slow and steady recovery (y'know kinda like how in real life illnesses are treated). By contrast, the villain party, while correct in their claim that the world is rotting and they share the whole "blow it to kingdom come" sentiment, they all seem to have a hurried result in them.

Relius wants the world dead so he can reshape it to his own personal taste and who knows what his twisted mind deems "necessary".

Izanami wants to world to be turned into one where death is prevalent, but her actions don't allow for new life to be brought in.

Nine wants the world dead so that Celica has no problems afterward and screw anyone else that might be hurt in the process. Basically it's the Dark War all over again for her, only this time on a grander scale.

2 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Protector of the Azure= This one is a little more tricky, but if the Azure Grimore he has allows him to tap into the true power of the Azure via Idea Engine while Terumi tried and failed, then he is in fact the best person to protect it from those would use it for destructive purposes, hence the Protector title. 

Ehh I am not so sure how much I like the thought of the Idea Engine becoming his Swiss army Deus Ex plot convenience. I mean I wouldn't put it past Mori to do something like this, but I'd prefer leaving the Idea Engine out of the "endgame" scenario.

[MaximusMurkimus]

So as a "Destroyer", Ragna is breaking the chain of events that are slowly degrading the world thanks to timeline shenanigans, got it.

I do wonder how does Rachel expect the world to heal after Chronophantasma; loads of people just turned into seithr, the Embryo ready to rek whoever is still around. Really, Doomsday sounds less like it's name if the idea is to rebuild the world with a few select people safe from the effects. Sure, it's not morally the best way about doing it, but there's not much left of a world to preserve at this point, ya know?

[Zedar90]

27 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

I do wonder how does Rachel expect the world to heal after Chronophantasma; loads of people just turned into seithr, the Embryo ready to rek whoever is still around. Really, Doomsday sounds less like it's name if the idea is to rebuild the world with a few select people safe from the effects. Sure, it's not morally the best way about doing it, but there's not much left of a world to preserve at this point, ya know?

She basically said it in the end of CP, she wants Amaterasu to rebuild the world like it was.

I personally hopes it ends with most of the world restored, but not everything. Some casualties should exist.

[MaximusMurkimus]

So I'm taking a closer look at some of the sprites on the trailer and it looks like those "doll joints" are actually connected to some pattern on her back; looks like some sort of elaborate tattoo, with a blue circle right in the center. Then again my eyes are kinda garbage and the video quality is low, so maybe people see something different.

Going off of standard boss character protocol, I'm guessing that's some sort of weak spot.

[Shadow_Aizen]

Hey, I'm new here as a member and participant on the website, but I have been following for years. I just have question: Has anyone updated the character's Story in Act1 properly yet? I was a bit annoyed when the person who translated Naoto's story skipped the conversation between him and Celica. 

Another question, is there anyone here who wants images of every scene, dialogue, etc.?

[sg1989]

8 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

No no, she did explain what said "Order Sickness" is: it is the current world's dependence on the time manipulation shenanigans from all the sources, the most recent of which (as of CP) was the tug of war between Amaterasu and Izanami. According to Rachel, the world has been reset, rewritten, erased and repeated for centuries that it ceased to "function" as it should. Her solution is that someone or something must break the world's current sickly state in order for it to start healing. Notice that hers is about the only claim that wants a slow and steady recovery (y'know kinda like how in real life illnesses are treated). By contrast, the villain party, while correct in their claim that the world is rotting and they share the whole "blow it to kingdom come" sentiment, they all seem to have a hurried result in them.

Relius wants the world dead so he can reshape it to his own personal taste and who knows what his twisted mind deems "necessary".

Izanami wants to world to be turned into one where death is prevalent, but her actions don't allow for new life to be brought in.

Nine wants the world dead so that Celica has no problems afterward and screw anyone else that might be hurt in the process. Basically it's the Dark War all over again for her, only this time on a grander scale.

Ehh I am not so sure how much I like the thought of the Idea Engine becoming his Swiss army Deus Ex plot convenience. I mean I wouldn't put it past Mori to do something like this, but I'd prefer leaving the Idea Engine out of the "endgame" scenario.

However, now I am confused as to why the world of BB has created antibodies as jin or Hakumen with the obsession to kill ragna, when the function of the destroyer and only to put an end to the various problems explained by Rachal in previous games.

I seem to see a situation similar to that of the LoK series (with some differences of course) where vampires 

Spoiler

were considered an unecessary evil in the world that had to be eliminated, only to realize too late that the latter were essential to restore and defend a world now in ruins because of a task that humans could not play.

 

It would be ironic to see Jin / haku kill their '' Dark One '' and then realize you've made a fatal mistake and that doom the world to a fate worse than what they wanted to avoid at all costs with their hunting.

Ok, probably what I wrote is stupid, but I'm confused in this point.

PS: sorry for my bad english

 

[Luminos564]

Think of the BB world as one singular body. Is it not natural for a biological organism to have defense systems in place against that which would harm it? Like our white blood cells, Jin and Haku-men are fulfilling a task in order to keep the world running (disregarding the ill state it is in). It's just more dramatic since because said antibodies are related to the "virus", Ragna.

This being said, they're not without free will and they are capable of ignoring him in favor of bigger threats.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Luminos564
Spelling mistakes from phone auto correct -_-

[NeoStrayCat]

9 hours ago, Shadow_Aizen said:

Hey, I'm new here as a member and participant on the website, but I have been following for years. I just have question: Has anyone updated the character's Story in Act1 properly yet? I was a bit annoyed when the person who translated Naoto's story skipped the conversation between him and Celica. 

Another question, is there anyone here who wants images of every scene, dialogue, etc.?

Not that I know of, or rather, who would have the time to do so if the person has a steady stream of currency to play everyone's story and capture footage of it. Besides, Zedar already posted translations of the Story parts where the characters speak in certain stage fights.

Also, that would be nice, but that would only be good in the short run/long run management if and when it comes to consoles, especially with English text.

For now, the story continues in the next day ahead!

[sg1989]

4 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

Think if the BB world as one singular body. Is it not natural for a biological organism to have defense systems in place against that which would harm it? Like our white blood cells, Jin and Haku-men are fulfilling a task in order to keep the world running (disregarding the I'll state it us in). It's just more dramatic since because said antibodies are related to the "virus", Ragna.

This being said, they're not without free will and they are capable of ignoring him in favor of bigger threats.

Thanks for the explanation

But, still, I find this trend BBverse see ragna as a disease something very stupid, when it might be regarded as something bad but necessary for the world.

A world that relies on agents using a power decidedly strange with many obscure points, at least in my opinion.

After the explanations of Jubei on the power of the order, and Mu calls Jin ''endbringer'' ( if there not are errors of translation or other) would not surprise me if, at some point, Jin and haku can become a greater threat than it is ragna, with a world endangered by its own antibodies.

Obviously, mine are just speculation, but after the ''super strong frozen man called azrael'' a Jin / hakuman Arthas style does not seem completely unlikely for me ... maybe XD

sorry for my bad english.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

Well, now we need to wait around one day more to start sheding more lights in the story... man, I think everyone (or most of) want to know about Naoto

[kylehyde]

Rachel is the only one as of yet that see's "The Destroyer" as being something good. To everyone else, Jin, Hakumen, and Tsubaki in particular, Ragna is an evil that must be eradicated. 

[Luminos564]

18 minutes ago, kylehyde said:

Rachel is the only one as of yet that see's "The Destroyer" as being something good. To everyone else, Jin, Hakumen, and Tsubaki in particular, Ragna is an evil that must be eradicated. 

To be fair to Tsubaki, she really doesn't have the full low-down of the story (that we're aware of). All she knows of Ragna is that 1. he's a wanted criminal and that 2. he damn near killed Jin and Noel, the object of her (somewhat unhealthy) love and one of her dearest friends. You can't exactly fault her for feeling resentment even if the protagonist bigwigs filled her in on the details. She might more or less share Haku-men's point of view on him: regardless of his true actions, he's still too dangerous and needs to be put down before any more harm is done.

[kylehyde]

1 hour ago, Luminos564 said:

To be fair to Tsubaki, she really doesn't have the full low-down of the story (that we're aware of). All she knows of Ragna is that 1. he's a wanted criminal and that 2. he damn near killed Jin and Noel, the object of her (somewhat unhealthy) love and one of her dearest friends. You can't exactly fault her for feeling resentment even if the protagonist bigwigs filled her in on the details. She might more or less share Haku-men's point of view on him: regardless of his true actions, he's still too dangerous and needs to be put down before any more harm is done.

Well from the get go she considered him to be the sole reason her life sucks. Let me elaborate, she blamed him for the current situation that Noel and Jin find themselves in. It's his fault for daring to come between her and her precious friendships. She even says so. In my opinion, now this is me, her reasons are shallow.

And this is before she became Izayoi and learned the worlds truth that he is an evil that must be destroyed. But really, she needed no extra motivation to kill him.

 

[JustaMaskedFreak]

Why am I having an impression that Tsubaki won't kill Ragna, maybe seeing that he isn't that bad at all. Yes, I know, he is wanted, almost killed one of her precious friends and her lover, but still I think she will give mercy to him. Yet, this post may be another complain for "don't kill Ragna!"

But analyzing here again, even Jin, somehow is starting to accept Ragna and not try to kill him every single time, i think. There are many possibilities to her mercy him or kill him...

[ReRe01]

I agreed with you on her hate towards Ragna  is shallow even before her arc magus took over her she hated him then and Jin still was the cause of her hate towards him and nothing about her hate towards him has change at all this time only Noel got put in the middle of it this time so she hates him even more now.

[Luminos564]

2 hours ago, kylehyde said:

Well from the get go she considered him to be the sole reason her life sucks. Let me elaborate, she blamed him for the current situation that Noel and Jin find themselves in. It's his fault for daring to come between her and her precious friendships. She even says so. In my opinion, now this is me, her reasons are shallow.

And this is before she became Izayoi and learned the worlds truth that he is an evil that must be destroyed. But really, she needed no extra motivation to kill him.

Well when you base your own self worth around a pretty, blond bishonen who has a tendency to go apeshit over his fraternal sibling, you...kinda have limited options with how to act. All Tsubaki knows is that Ragna is Jin's target and with Ragna near Jin is far less sane (he's getting better though, thanks to character development and Celica's well-timed Inazuma Kick to the back of his head). Noel being Noel just means she gets caught in the warzone. Not helping is Ragna's APOCALYPTICALLY shitty luck of being the equivalent to a massive target in a shooting gallery. 

Now bear in mind, I am not saying she is correct in hating him. I am saying however, that I can comprehend why she is the way she is. There's other external factors that influence her decision like her upbringing (I wouldn't imagine knowing you were the first successful result of an incestuous marriage to be very healthy for you), Terumi's manipulations and his mind-wrecking. The fact of the matter is that to Tsubaki, Jin, Noel and Makoto mean the world to her and Ragna, unfortunately was there and the near direct cause of their current wounds. However, as I mentioned earlier, she also seems like the sort of gal who can move past her current character state...depending on how it is written. I wrote before that if she had the chance to interact with the amnesiac Ragna, that it'd be a narrative goldmine where she could see him as more than just "the man who ruined my/Jin's life" (even if said statement is about as true as there being life on the surface of the Sun). But let's see what Acts 2 and 3 bring to the table.

EDIT: Ultimately, I wanna bring this out: if Tsubaki's hatred of Ragna is so shallow, then there's plenty of chances for her to let go of it. Far easier than say if her hate had more weight to it.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

There is one single thing that I want to understand about Izayoi and Tsubaki.

During CP, Tsubaki as all different, her clothes, her weapon, the way she act...

And her eyes.

And in CP she transformed into Izayoi.

Now we are in Central Fiction...

There is no spell under Tsubaki.

But why Izayoi eye color is different from Tsubaki?!

[Luminos564]

For the same reason why Noel's eyes turn blue whenever she feels like being an exhibitionist turning into Mu-12: it has been decreed as such by Mori. Well OK, stylistic mistakes on the design part aside, it's possible the eye color changing is just them tapping into the power of their respective mode changes. Mu-12 is (maybe) usig the Azure and thus has blue eyes so maybe Tsubaki is doing the same as Izayoi?

[JustaMaskedFreak]

17 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

For the same reason why Noel's eyes turn blue whenever she feels like being an exhibitionist turning into Mu-12: it has been decreed as such by Mori. Well OK, stylistic mistakes on the design part aside, it's possible the eye color changing is just them tapping into the power of their respective mode changes. Mu-12 is (maybe) usig the Azure and thus has blue eyes so maybe Tsubaki is doing the same as Izayoi?

Yeah, it actually makes sense, but didn't Noel eyes were blue just during the Continuum Shift? In Chronophantasma her eyes changes too even with her in control? I mean, her artwork may say something, but I think during Story mode they were green...

A little weird, but yet may be true something like getting an extra power and changing eye colors as a consequence.

 

EDIT: Now about other thing, I was seeing some funny posts/montages at http://takamagaharatexts.tumblr.com/, and it had a post using Naoto CG during the Act 2, that one he gets that piece of Azure (if it is the Azure).

The background itself is the Amaterasu, yes the Stage from Izanami, but... how the hell did he got the Azure there? First, most of them needed the Nox Nyctoress to defeat her and Naoto was the one she said it wasn't from here, or some thing like that. Second, What Izanami would be doing with a piece of the Azure in the first place?

[FKGunBlaze]

Just now, JustaMaskedFreak said:

Yeah, it actually makes sense, but didn't Noel eyes were blue just during the Continuum Shift? In Chronophantasma her eyes changes too even with her in control? I mean, her artwork may say something, but I think during Story mode they were green...

Two sets of portraits. One has the green eyes and no head accesory. The other has blue eyes and the head accesory.