Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[churchblue]

A fight between Es and Nine would be awesome if it happens.

 I'm also interested in what her reaction to the current situation and her answer to Nine's decision.

[Madness4455]

I have a question. Is Azrael really trying to create a Black Beast?

If so, then I am skeptical with Izanami's little partnership with him if they are sort of in way working together. 

Because the Black Beast is one of the most powerful beings in the Blazblue world and it takes a lot of effort into defeating this creature.

I'm starting to believe that Izanami might be leading Azrael to his death because I highly doubt that he could beat it  or rather match its power as well as even injuring it since the Black Beast can only be effected by Nox Nyctores weapons, Magic, Ars Magus, and 'out of logic' beings (ex; Valkenhayn since he didn't use a Nox weapon in the Dark War.). What do you guys think? I mean partnering up with Izanami doesn't eventually end very well for people like Terumi and Relius Clover. 

[heavymetalmixer]

28 minutes ago, Madness4455 said:

I have a question. Is Azrael really trying to create a Black Beast?

If so, then I am skeptical with Izanami's little partnership with him if they are sort of in way working together. 

Because the Black Beast is one of the most powerful beings in the Blazblue world and it takes a lot of effort into defeating this creature.

I'm starting to believe that Izanami might be leading Azrael to his death because I highly doubt that he could beat it  or rather match its power as well as even injuring it since the Black Beast can only be effected by Nox Nyctores weapons, Magic, Ars Magus, and 'out of logic' beings (ex; Valkenhayn since he didn't use a Nox weapon in the Dark War.). What do you guys think? I mean partnering up with Izanami doesn't eventually end very well for people like Terumi and Relius Clover. 

This fucker got in the Embryo with his bare hands, now I think this guy isn't "normal" at all.

[Axiomatic]

1 minute ago, Madness4455 said:

I have a question. Is Azrael really trying to create a Black Beast?

If so, then I am skeptical with Izanami's little partnership with him if they are sort of in way working together. 

Because the Black Beast is one of the most powerful beings in the Blazblue world and it takes a lot of effort into defeating this creature.

I'm starting to believe that Izanami might be leading Azrael to his death because I highly doubt that he could beat it  or rather match its power as well as even injuring it since the Black Beast can only be effected by Nox Nyctores weapons, Magic, Ars Magus, and 'out of logic' beings (ex; Valkenhayn since he didn't use a Nox weapon in the Dark War.). What do you guys think? I mean partnering up with Izanami doesn't eventually end very well for people like Terumi and Relius Clover. 

Azrael tore through reality with his bare hands when he noticed Nine had him fighting a fake version of Hakumen. She then comments on how Azrael's strength is exactly outside of Logic. Thus he should be able to hurt the Black Beast just like Valkenhayn. 

 

I have no idea how Azrael would fair in a fight with it, but I'm sure if he released all his restraints he would enjoy himself fighting something that wiped out half of humanity. Just look at how excited he gets fighting Ragna in CP arcade mode since Ragna was fighting a one-man war against the NOL. He LIVES for a challenge but he hasn't found one. In CP Extend, he gets super excited when human Tager manages to make him bleed, but gets upset when he turns out to not be strong enough to do much more. Thats why he wants to find something he can fight to his heart's content. 

 

Actually, I think there partnership is actually mutually accepted, maybe not through friendship but through ideology. 

All Azrael wants out of life is to fight, kind of like an apex predator in the food chain. There are hints throughout story mode he actually understands a lot of what is going on, but doesn't care enough to pick a side; like he walks into the trap just for something to do and to fight people like Kagura or Ranga. If Azrael ends up dying fighting for Izanami through their pact, he wouldn't bear I grudge I think because he got to fight something strong enough to actually take him out. Just consider, he made the pact because to actually have something to fight that he wouldn't curbstomp without trying; look at how upset he is when Kagura walks away from their fight. 

Just listen to how Azrael describes fighting on the battlefield as a life or death situation. Goodness and evilness mean nothing to him. Rather, he has a very natural view of the world that mirrors what life is like in nature: there is no higher cause, just survival; look at how he talks about consuming people. Azrael deviates only slightly from this as he actually enjoys the struggle, something a non-human creature like a wolf probably wouldn't feel. Azrael doesn't hunt down weaker people that are NPC tier not because of morals or anything but because they present no challenge to him; when he encounters Celcia, he mentions how she isn't even worth his time. He does hurt people if it means he can fight something strong though. Like he goes after Celica later since he wanted Ragna to go all out. 

All Izanami wants is a world of death, one where death has lasting consequences rather than the timeloop and Continuum Shift shenanigans the world is stuck in. Look at Terumi, he used the diminishing consequences of death to save-scum his way to victory in CS and take out Takamagahara, which was practically a robot god. At the root of things, death is a primal concept, as all animals live by consuming and killing other creatures be it from plants to other creatures. In my eyes, Azrael embodies her beliefs about how the world should be since Terumi and friends are so busy trying to change the world while the good guys have to deal with their shit they've lost sight of things.

 

 

End of the day: Izanami wants Azrael to get Ragna stronger one way or the other and Azrael wants to fight something strong. Death in Azrael's ideal circumstances would be fighting something stronger than himself, which is exactly what he wants. The possibility always exists Izanami will off him, but listen to her humor when Azrael starts gushing about getting the chance to fight something strong if he teams up with her.  

 

[Luminos564]

1 minute ago, Axiomatic said:

End of the day: Izanami wants Azrael to get Ragna stronger one way or the other and Azrael wants to fight something strong. Death in Azrael's ideal circumstances would be fighting something stronger than himself, which is exactly what he wants. The possibility always exists Izanami will off him, but listen to her humor when Azrael starts gushing about getting the chance to fight something strong if he teams up with her.  

It's actually a little bit more complex. Azrael gushes at the idea of fighting strong people, yes. But his ultimate desire is to be able to fight someone or something for eternity. Or at the least, he wants to be able to fight something for as long as he continues to breathe. So he figures that, since the Black Beast took a century and the combined power of the 6 Heroes to take down, he might as well go after it. Something tells me this badass mofo would fit right at home in the Warhammer 40K universe, especially if he comes to Khorne's domain of everlasting combat.

[Madness4455]

6 hours ago, heavymetalmixer said:

This fucker got in the Embryo with his bare hands, now I think this guy isn't "normal" at all.

Like anyone is considered 'normal' in Blazblue lol 

[Madness4455]

6 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

It's actually a little bit more complex. Azrael gushes at the idea of fighting strong people, yes. But his ultimate desire is to be able to fight someone or something for eternity. Or at the least, he wants to be able to fight something for as long as he continues to breathe. So he figures that, since the Black Beast took a century and the combined power of the 6 Heroes to take down, he might as well go after it. Something tells me this badass mofo would fit right at home in the Warhammer 40K universe, especially if he comes to Khorne's domain of everlasting combat.

The problem is it took six people and probably many others to defeat the Black Beast. Trinity Glassfille stated to Ragna that is impossible to fight it alone, in a way it is suicide. Dude may have some balls to fight one of the most dangerous, if not most dangerous creature of the Blazblue verse, but I don't know if his power is enough to actually best it in an all-out battle.

[sg1989]

4 hours ago, Axiomatic said:

Azrael tore through reality with his bare hands when he noticed Nine had him fighting a fake version of Hakumen. She then comments on how Azrael's strength is exactly outside of Logic. Thus he should be able to hurt the Black Beast just like Valkenhayn. 

 

I have no idea how Azrael would fair in a fight with it, but I'm sure if he released all his restraints he would enjoy himself fighting something that wiped out half of humanity. Just look at how excited he gets fighting Ragna in CP arcade mode since Ragna was fighting a one-man war against the NOL. He LIVES for a challenge but he hasn't found one. In CP Extend, he gets super excited when human Tager manages to make him bleed, but gets upset when he turns out to not be strong enough to do much more. Thats why he wants to find something he can fight to his heart's content. 

 

Actually, I think there partnership is actually mutually accepted, maybe not through friendship but through ideology. 

All Azrael wants out of life is to fight, kind of like an apex predator in the food chain. There are hints throughout story mode he actually understands a lot of what is going on, but doesn't care enough to pick a side; like he walks into the trap just for something to do and to fight people like Kagura or Ranga. If Azrael ends up dying fighting for Izanami through their pact, he wouldn't bear I grudge I think because he got to fight something strong enough to actually take him out. Just consider, he made the pact because to actually have something to fight that he wouldn't curbstomp without trying; look at how upset he is when Kagura walks away from their fight. 

Just listen to how Azrael describes fighting on the battlefield as a life or death situation. Goodness and evilness mean nothing to him. Rather, he has a very natural view of the world that mirrors what life is like in nature: there is no higher cause, just survival; look at how he talks about consuming people. Azrael deviates only slightly from this as he actually enjoys the struggle, something a non-human creature like a wolf probably wouldn't feel. Azrael doesn't hunt down weaker people that are NPC tier not because of morals or anything but because they present no challenge to him; when he encounters Celcia, he mentions how she isn't even worth his time. He does hurt people if it means he can fight something strong though. Like he goes after Celica later since he wanted Ragna to go all out. 

All Izanami wants is a world of death, one where death has lasting consequences rather than the timeloop and Continuum Shift shenanigans the world is stuck in. Look at Terumi, he used the diminishing consequences of death to save-scum his way to victory in CS and take out Takamagahara, which was practically a robot god. At the root of things, death is a primal concept, as all animals live by consuming and killing other creatures be it from plants to other creatures. In my eyes, Azrael embodies her beliefs about how the world should be since Terumi and friends are so busy trying to change the world while the good guys have to deal with their shit they've lost sight of things.

 

 

End of the day: Izanami wants Azrael to get Ragna stronger one way or the other and Azrael wants to fight something strong. Death in Azrael's ideal circumstances would be fighting something stronger than himself, which is exactly what he wants. The possibility always exists Izanami will off him, but listen to her humor when Azrael starts gushing about getting the chance to fight something strong if he teams up with her.  

 

But the thing I do not understand, and that nine or Izanami do not ask least who the hell this guy, is able to get into the embryo with your bare hands (at least according to the summary of act 1) and up to this moment is voluntarily restricting his powers through enchant dragunov . (limiter of sector seven was applied after )

Considering, moreover, who knows too many things that normally should not know (always by summaries of its arcade mode knew Relius manipulated sector seven, izanami god etc.)

Mori, seriously, give us some explanation please

PS: sorry for my bad english

[Yoshirocks92]

1 minute ago, sg1989 said:

But the thing I do not understand, and that nine or Izanami do not ask least who the hell this guy, is able to get into the embryo with your bare hands (at least according to the summary of act 1) and up to this moment is voluntarily restricting his powers through enchant dragunov . (limiter of sector seven was applied after )

Considering, moreover, who knows too many things that normally should not know (always by summaries of its arcade mode knew Relius manipulated seven sector, izanami god etc.)

Mori, seriously, give us some explanation please

PS: sorry for my bad english

Yeah considering that I would like more info on what's the story with Noel and Amaterasu.

[Axiomatic]

1 minute ago, sg1989 said:

But the thing I do not understand, and that nine or Izanami do not ask least who the hell this guy, is able to get into the embryo with your bare hands (at least according to the summary of act 1) and up to this moment is voluntarily restricting his powers through enchant dragunov . (limiter of sector seven was applied after )

Considering, moreover, who knows too many things that normally should not know (always by summaries of its arcade mode knew Relius manipulated seven sector, izanami god etc.)

Mori, seriously, give us some explanation please

PS: sorry for my bad english

Did he take steroids? Sacrifice his family to Cthulu? Sometime of Axl/I-no singularity that makes him special?

 

I'm waiting to be disappointed since I don't think Mori has the guts to match the living Chuck Norris legend we've made Azrael to be.

[Luminos564]

3 hours ago, Madness4455 said:

The problem is it took six people and probably many others to defeat the Black Beast. Trinity Glassfille stated to Ragna that is impossible to fight it alone, in a way it is suicide. Dude may have some balls to fight one of the most dangerous, if not most dangerous creature of the Blazblue verse, but I don't know if his power is enough to actually best it in an all-out battle.

You're misunderstanding. Azrael doesn't want to fight the Black Beast because he wants to win. He wants to fight it just because the opportunity presented itself for him to do so. Whether or not he can defeat it is irrelevant to him. He just wants to go all out on an extremely powerful opponent and who better to do that on than the very enemy that took, like you said, the 6 Heroes and the combined efforts of Ars Magus-wielding mankind? Because remember, he's still restraining 80% of his total power according to him. Whether or not he can defeat the Black Beast by unleashing it is trivial to his mindset. The man just wants to fight. If he beats it, then booyah he found something he can go all out on and now that he knows how to make one, he can make more for future punching. If it beats him, then all the better because he was able to die fighting.

Remember, Azrael is not a hero. Nor is he an outright villain. He's antagonistic sure, but he doesn't particularly work for any given side. He does his own thing. He's a wildcard in this conflict and a pretty damn powerful one at that.

2 hours ago, Axiomatic said:

Did he take steroids? Sacrifice his family to Cthulu? Sometime of Axl/I-no singularity that makes him special?

I'm waiting to be disappointed since I don't think Mori has the guts to match the living Chuck Norris legend we've made Azrael to be.

Nah man, Azrael got this strong by doing 3 simple things every single day:
-100 push-ups.
-100 sit-ups.
-10 km run across the plains of Ikaruga...(A.K.A "The Ikaruga Civil War").

Joking aside, Mori more or less wrote himself into a corner with Azrael on 2 counts:

-First, he made him way too strong with so far no other character so much as being able to scratch him, let alone defeat. The only vague weakness he seems to have is a scar Tager accidentally touched and caused him genuine momentary pain but never was it established that it is the key to his defeat.
-Second, Azrael is precisely adored by most of his fans because of how flappin' invincible he is without actually being boring as a result. At this point, should he lose everything will seem like it was an ass-pull by Mori because he could not find a legitimate way for Azrael to be beat clean.

[Madness4455]

3 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

You're misunderstanding. Azrael doesn't want to fight the Black Beast because he wants to win. He wants to fight it just because the opportunity presented itself for him to do so. Whether or not he can defeat it is irrelevant to him. He just wants to go all out on an extremely powerful opponent and who better to do that on than the very enemy that took, like you said, the 6 Heroes and the combined efforts of Ars Magus-wielding mankind? Because remember, he's still restraining 80% of his total power according to him. Whether or not he can defeat the Black Beast by unleashing it is trivial to his mindset. The man just wants to fight. If he beats it, then booyah he found something he can go all out on and now that he knows how to make one, he can make more for future punching. If it beats him, then all the better because he was able to die fighting.

Remember, Azrael is not a hero. Nor is he an outright villain. He's antagonistic sure, but he doesn't particularly work for any given side. He does his own thing. He's a wildcard in this conflict and a pretty damn powerful one at that.

Nah man, Azrael got this strong by doing 3 simple things every single day:
-100 push-ups.
-100 sit-ups.
-10 km run across the plains of Ikaruga...(A.K.A "The Ikaruga Civil War").

Joking aside, Mori more or less wrote himself into a corner with Azrael on 2 counts:

-First, he made him far far too strong with so far no other character so much as being able to scratch him, let alone defeat. The only vague weakness he seems to have is a scar Tager accidentally touched and caused him genuine momentary pain but never was it established that it is the key to his defeat.
-Second, Azrael is precisely adored by most of his fans because of how flappin' invincible he is without actually being boring as a result. At this point, should he lose everything will seem like it was an ass-pull by Mori because he could not find a legitimate way for Azrael to be beat clean.

As much as I like Azrael, I am waiting for something or somebody to beat him in an all out fight. The only people I like to believe that could or without a doubt match his raw power, maybe beat him are Hakumen, Jubei, Nine, Izanami, Ragna[Black Beast mode], and Terumi[The dude always finds other means in getting stronger or plans ahead.] 

Remember, in Chronophantasma....half of the character are handicapped and not at their full potential. Though Azrael was holding back, he was fighting at his best. 

-Rachel lost a large amount of her power since she is losing her position as an observer.

-Valkenhayn is getting too old. God knows how strong he was when he was younger. We know that Valkenhayn was more aggressive and temperamental.

-Jin hasn't fully developed or tapped into the full potency of the Power of Order.

-Tager...hmmm he isn't THAT strong. So he doesn't count much.

-Ragna...he was fighting at his best in arcade mode, but nobody knows who won the fight. In story mode, Ragna was crippled by Celica's influence. 

-Hakumen. He still hasn't reached 100% of his power, but he is the only person who can fight Azrael to a stand still without breaking a sweat or suffering fatigue. He might be a perfect opponent for Azrael since the Susano'O unit is stated to be virtually indestructible and he managed to survive the Black Beast by his lonesome, despite being overwhelmed by the creature's immense strength.

 

So, I don't think Mori would pull off a outrageous Deus-Ex-Machina on this brute's defeat since the characters, mostly the strongest ones have yet to progress further and reach their full potential.

 

[JustaMaskedFreak]

One thing that bugs me is: many people doesn't want the Black Beast again, even Izanami, if I am not wrong, but why would she encourage Azrael to awake it?Azrael is seeking for a great opponent, but what about death? She can't control the Beast. Is it something just to put Ragna out the play?

[Fenris]

On Azrael:

With the concept of "fusing with a grimoire" having been established and confirmed as canon, I once came up with a theory that perhaps Azrael himself may have somehow done this at some point in the past. However, there is WAY too much that outright contradicts this theory. Too lazy to get into that, though, but I think it's pretty obvious why this one's a no-go. Another seemingly popular theory (it was even brought up in here a few times) is that Azrael is the result of Sector Seven's tampering. The least popular theory I've seen thus far, though, is that Azrael gains the strength of those whom he's "eaten." And yeah, some take the whole "eaten" thing literally. I can't find much to support the last theory.

Something got me to thinking that Azrael was one of Mori's ways of trying to make a character that was somewhat "normal" among the Blazblue cast of quote/endquote "weirdos." That's not to say Azrael is "weird" in his own way (though that's subjective); however, he can be thought of as "not so weird" in the sense that his source of power doesn't seem to be connected to any established in-game source (i.e., seithr, etc.). Plus he's just a really, really strong guy whose sole raisson d'etre is simply to find a strong-ass opponent. Pretty straightforward and to-the-point character--rare in the main series.

[Madness4455]

3 hours ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

One thing that bugs me is: many people doesn't want the Black Beast again, even Izanami, if I am not wrong, but why would she encourage Azrael to awake it?Azrael is seeking for a great opponent, but what about death? She can't control the Beast. Is it something just to put Ragna out the play?

Possibly. I believe Izanami more or less wants to mentally break Ragna, making him lose control of the Azure and turn him into a monster. In a way, he dies as a monster instead of a human.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

6 hours ago, Madness4455 said:

Possibly. I believe Izanami more or less wants to mentally break Ragna, making him lose control of the Azure and turn him into a monster. In a way, he dies as a monster instead of a human.

Honestly, she can kinda break him mentally with this "brother" thing...

[HoudiniJr100]

Well remember, Ragna flipped his lid when she pulled the Saya card in chronophantasma, there's a guarantee that it can happen again with catastrophic results if it can do that. Just to addto that possibility

[Axiomatic]

11 hours ago, Madness4455 said:

Possibly. I believe Izanami more or less wants to mentally break Ragna, making him lose control of the Azure and turn him into a monster. In a way, he dies as a monster instead of a human.

 

Short answer: I don't think so.

 

Brace yourselves, a long post is coming ()

 

Long answer:

Let us take an inventory through some evidence first.

I'm sure Izanami has her own plans for sending everyone after True Noel, but I think some of that brother talk is genuine.    Recall a line from CP's intro from

Terumi to Izanam:

Quote

Terumi:

Why did you let Ragna the Bloodedge escape before?We should have been finished with Ragna the Bloodedge by then.You could have easily ended it...Why didn't you?...Hmm, was it not mixed enough...?Or did it get mixed too much.[concerning Izanami and Saya's fusion/relationship]

 

Again recall, when Izanami visits Ragna at the ruins of the church (scene makes more sense now that we know she has Za Warudo):

Quote

Izanami

: I am here because I have matters to tend to with this man [Ragna].

Ragna:

What do you want, Saya?

Izanami

: Last time we met, we did not even get a chance to speak. I came here to meet with you. ...Hmph... As I thought...

Ragna:

Huh?

Izanami

: Ragna the Bloodedge, be mine.

Ragna

: What?!

Izanami:

Listen carefully to me. Become my servant.Swear your allegiance to me-become my evant forever. What would be equitable?I will give you Yuuki Terumi's head. That is a fair exchange,I think.

Ragna

: Who do you think you're kidding?!

I

zanami:

Hm. Does that not satisfy you? What if I said...[Saya voice] Brother, Saya misses you. Come, be with your sister. [End Saya voice]

Ragna:

[Saya flashback] I'll kill you right here and now.

...

Ragna goes ham. Izanami effortlessly shuts him down.

I

zanami:

You have always had such a violent temperament...

Phantom does sorcery

Ragna:

Why you...! Wh-...What's going on...?I can't... move ...Guahhh!

Izanami:

Your violence is...unsightly. Treat your sister properly. Seems as though my vessel desired you...But it appears my trip was for naught. That is enough Phantom. Release him. As expected, it is much more comforting to watch you suffer...

Ragna:

Saya...

Izanami

: That was entertaining. Until we meet again..."Brother" Come to me if you have a change of heart. I am generous. I will accept you no matter the hour.

Ranga:

Got it...I can visit you any time of day or night...And murder you...

Izanami giggles

I

zanami:

Heh heh...I will look forward to it.

Izanami and Phantom exit

 

And now consider the end of CP:

Quote

#Hakumen is super right about killing Nu-13 but Ragna and pals say no

Izanami:

It seems the celebration has come to a close.

Ragna:

Saya! This is it. I'm going to end you here.

Ragna runs at Izanami.

Izanami:

...

Ragna stops short.

Ragna:

Gr...

Izanami

: What is the matter? I will not dodge. [Izanami smiles] Or do you want me...Brother?

Ragna:

You...

Izanami

: [Izanami looks dejected] You would still deny me. Brother? You still hate me? But I tell you, you will never be able to save me...ever.

Cue Hakumen was super right about leaving Nu-13 alive.

Shits hits the fan. Noel goes magical girl.

Izanami:

Ah...Blade of the Godslayer. This is becoming quite interesting. I suppose I must put up a fight...I call upon thee once more,

foul  beast

.

Ragna goes Black Beast

Izanami:

I see neither Hazama or Relius...No matter, my pact with them expires along with the banquet. They have served me well...Perhaps the next time we meet, I shall grant them a pleasant death as their reward. We go,Phantom.

Rachel and Izanami have banter.

Izanami:

The state of "nothing"...That is my one and only desire.

 

What I want to call attention to is the fact of how Izanami repeatedly attempts Ragna to join her side. Terumi believes Saya's attachment has transferred to Izanami due to Izanami not fusing completely or becoming too fused.

Azrael Act 2:

Quote

Izanami:

Form a pact with me. Work for me, defeat the entitled and release the Embryo...If you are  willing to be my accomplice in god killing, as a reward I'll give "death" one day.

 

Notice something, Izanami has made several pacts with characters so far, such as with Terumi, Relius, and Azrael and in all of these she has a notion that it will end one day ("expire") and she'll grant death to them at that time. However, notice how Izanami offers Ragna a pact to be her servant forever. That seems more than just  an offer of convenience and we've seen Izanami's plans haven't gone FUBAR at all, as she actually option selected Rachel into protecting Amatarasu rather than everyone else with Tsukoyomi. Its not like she really needs Ragna for her goals, since she has Za Warudo and the only credible threat to her Muel. She doesn't need Ragna.

At first it doesn't go well,  but Izanami leaves the offer on the table for later thinking it a minor inconveience.

When they meet again, she's actually upset Ragna won't accept her offer, then she triggers Black Beast mode via Nu. Then Izanami creates the embryo and talks about higher level being stuff with Rachel but then Izanami says something that contradicts what've seen from her:

"The state of "nothing" That is my one and only desire."

That is a complete contradiction to what we've seen of her yearning for Ragna. What gives?

 

In my perspective, it appears that Izanami and Saya aren't completely either individual but rather a mix of both, feeling each other's desries. Izanami states how she feels her VESSELS wishes, indicating that they still have separate consciousness to an extent. Nevertheless, as Terumi mentioned earlier, the plans didn't need Ragna anymore, yet Izanami continued to sway him to her side, using that psychological attack of his sister still being present. But what if it isn't a trick, and is actually the truth?

 

I don't know where to draw the line between Izanami and Saya but it strikes me that this discrepancy in her words and actions isn't a contradiciton but a subtle handing off of the "front" and "back" like how Hazama described the relationship between himself and Terumi in Terumi's CP arcade. See also the CS novels where they sort of "tag out" instantaneously. What if, after Terumi's mind rape, Saya yearned for the world just like how Nu does? They are closely related so its not so far fetched. I mean, look at how Noel went Godslayer mode in CS. Thus, Saya is present and working with Izanami since they both desire the world and everything to cease existing.

Yet there is one caveat: Ragna.

Despite it contradicting her goal (why would she care if she didn't desire anything and wants the world to end). It seems that Saya's affection is enough for her to lose sight of the goal and actually get Izanami to help her as well to try to get Ragna. End of the day, Izanami' priority is entropy of everything though, thus it seems she treats Saya's desires more like hormones rather than her own desires.

Notice how Izanami, once rejected by Ragna again, shifts to referring to Ranga as the Black Beast rather than her brother. It seems there is something more subtle going on with her than we think popularly. Likewise, it didn't seem to me like she planned to turn him into a Black Beast at least in CP, but rather it was happenstance since as derpy as Mu is now, she can still slay gods since she is a Kusanagi.

Additionally, Izanami states how she wants Azrael to just defeat all the entitled, which Ragna was confirmed by Rachel to not be one of. And then Izanami got Ragna to shank her so he could realize who his "true enemy was".

 

 

 

 

 

 

In summation, Izanami has had some contradictory actions with her goals when Ragna is involved and she treats him differently from anyone else. She refers to the existence of the Black Beast as separate from Ragna's existence even if it him turning into it, and states she wants Ragna as a servant. Specifically she offers special pact terms to him that subtly indicate her bias toward him compared to him, as she does not stipulate she'll award him death like all her other pact-mates.  I conjecture that there is some funny business going on between Saya and Izanami's relationship due to discrepancy, but it could also be a result of localization errors or bad writing (or sublte foreshadowing). Her dialogue also seems to suggest she actually dislikes the Black Beast and finds it funny that Take Mikazuchi could be useful to her, indicating that they never were a core part of  her plan.

So no, Madness4455, it seems like there is more going on then Izanami wanting Ragna to become a Black Beast. 

 

Edited February 13, 2016 by Axiomatic
F'ed up super hard, sorry about that JustaMaskedFreak for putting you on blast..

[MaximusMurkimus]

Saya being in on Izanami's plan would certainly explain a lot, especially if you consider that just like Hazama/Terumi, Relius was responsible. 

Jin always refers to Izanami as "Saya", even though he likely already know who she is. L that misery with Tsubaki and friends In CP, who's to say that wasn't just all one big "suck it" to Jin, since they're fond of each other?

She also holds Noel and the other Murokumos in contempt, despite having no reason to. This could easily be Saya having disdain for weaponized versions of herself running around.

Still, the sudden resistance her body puts up when fighting Naoto is pretty weird, since it's Naoto and not Ragna which this happens. I still think Saya T. could be linked to this; according to Zed's translation, she identities herself as Izanami and not Saya, but what if that post-battle breakdown was an unconscious reaction to him?

[Yoshirocks92]

39 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

She also holds Noel and the other Murokumos in contempt, despite having no reason to. This could easily be Saya having disdain for weaponized versions of herself running around.

Which is one reason that Izanami is tired of seeing Noel's face and straight up decides to show Noel a part of the world's truth to her as Izanami tells Noel that this is the reality that she'll walk someday.  

[JustaMaskedFreak]

19 hours ago, Axiomatic said:

11 hours ago, Madness4455 said:

Possibly. I believe Izanami more or less wants to mentally break Ragna, making him lose control of the Azure and turn him into a monster. In a way, he dies as a monster instead of a human.

 

Short answer: I don't think so.

 

Brace yourselves, a long post is coming ()

 

Long answer:

Let us take an inventory through some evidence first.

I'm sure Izanami has her own plans for sending everyone after True Noel, but I think some of that brother talk is genuine.    Recall a line from CP's intro from

Terumi to Izanam:

Quote

Terumi:

Why did you let Ragna the Bloodedge escape before?We should have been finished with Ragna the Bloodedge by then.You could have easily ended it...Why didn't you?...Hmm, was it not mixed enough...?Or did it get mixed too much.[concerning Izanami and Saya's fusion/relationship]

 

Again recall, when Izanami visits Ragna at the ruins of the church (scene makes more sense now that we know she has Za Warudo):

Quote

Izanami

: I am here because I have matters to tend to with this man [Ragna].

Ragna:

What do you want, Saya?

Izanami

: Last time we met, we did not even get a chance to speak. I came here to meet with you. ...Hmph... As I thought...

Ragna:

Huh?

Izanami

: Ragna the Bloodedge, be mine.

Ragna

: What?!

Izanami:

Listen carefully to me. Become my servant.Swear your allegiance to me-become my evant forever. What would be equitable?I will give you Yuuki Terumi's head. That is a fair exchange,I think.

Ragna

: Who do you think you're kidding?!

I

zanami:

Hm. Does that not satisfy you? What if I said...[Saya voice] Brother, Saya misses you. Come, be with your sister. [End Saya voice]

Ragna:

[Saya flashback] I'll kill you right here and now.

...

Ragna goes ham. Izanami effortlessly shuts him down.

I

zanami:

You have always had such a violent temperament...

Phantom does sorcery

Ragna:

Why you...! Wh-...What's going on...?I can't... move ...Guahhh!

Izanami:

Your violence is...unsightly. Treat your sister properly. Seems as though my vessel desired you...But it appears my trip was for naught. That is enough Phantom. Release him. As expected, it is much more comforting to watch you suffer...

Ragna:

Saya...

Izanami

: That was entertaining. Until we meet again..."Brother" Come to me if you have a change of heart. I am generous. I will accept you no matter the hour.

Ranga:

Got it...I can visit you any time of day or night...And murder you...

Izanami giggles

I

zanami:

Heh heh...I will look forward to it.

Izanami and Phantom exit

 

And now consider the end of CP:

Quote

#Hakumen is super right about killing Nu-13 but Ragna and pals say no

Izanami:

It seems the celebration has come to a close.

Ragna:

Saya! This is it. I'm going to end you here.

Ragna runs at Izanami.

Izanami:

...

Ragna stops short.

Ragna:

Gr...

Izanami

: What is the matter? I will not dodge. [Izanami smiles] Or do you want me...Brother?

Ragna:

You...

Izanami

: [Izanami looks dejected] You would still deny me. Brother? You still hate me? But I tell you, you will never be able to save me...ever.

Cue Hakumen was super right about leaving Nu-13 alive.

Shits hits the fan. Noel goes magical girl.

Izanami:

Ah...Blade of the Godslayer. This is becoming quite interesting. I suppose I must put up a fight...I call upon thee once more,

foul  beast

.

Ragna goes Black Beast

Izanami:

I see neither Hazama or Relius...No matter, my pact with them expires along with the banquet. They have served me well...Perhaps the next time we meet, I shall grant them a pleasant death as their reward. We go,Phantom.

Rachel and Izanami have banter.

Izanami:

The state of "nothing"...That is my one and only desire.

 

What I want to call attention to is the fact of how Izanami repeatedly attempts Ragna to join her side. Terumi believes Saya's attachment has transferred to Izanami due to Izanami not fusing completely or becoming too fused.

Azrael Act 2:

Quote

Izanami:

Form a pact with me. Work for me, defeat the entitled and release the Embryo...If you are  willing to be my accomplice in god killing, as a reward I'll give "death" one day.

 

Notice something, Izanami has made several pacts with characters so far, such as with Terumi, Relius, and Azrael and in all of these she has a notion that it will end one day ("expire") and she'll grant death to them at that time. However, notice how Izanami offers Ragna a pact to be her servant forever. That seems more than just  an offer of convenience and we've seen Izanami's plans haven't gone FUBAR at all, as she actually option selected Rachel into protecting Amatarasu rather than everyone else with Tsukoyomi. Its not like she really needs Ragna for her goals, since she has Za Warudo and the only credible threat to her Muel. She doesn't need Ragna.

At first it doesn't go well,  but Izanami leaves the offer on the table for later thinking it a minor inconveience.

When they meet again, she's actually upset Ragna won't accept her offer, then she triggers Black Beast mode via Nu. Then Izanami creates the embryo and talks about higher level being stuff with Rachel but then Izanami says something that contradicts what've seen from her:

"The state of "nothing" That is my one and only desire."

That is a complete contradiction to what we've seen of her yearning for Ragna. What gives?

 

In my perspective, it appears that Izanami and Saya aren't completely either individual but rather a mix of both, feeling each other's desries. Izanami states how she feels her VESSELS wishes, indicating that they still have separate consciousness to an extent. Nevertheless, as Terumi mentioned earlier, the plans didn't need Ragna anymore, yet Izanami continued to sway him to her side, using that psychological attack of his sister still being present. But what if it isn't a trick, and is actually the truth?

 

I don't know where to draw the line between Izanami and Saya but it strikes me that this discrepancy in her words and actions isn't a contradiciton but a subtle handing off of the "front" and "back" like how Hazama described the relationship between himself and Terumi in Terumi's CP arcade. See also the CS novels where they sort of "tag out" instantaneously. What if, after Terumi's mind rape, Saya yearned for the world just like how Nu does? They are closely related so its not so far fetched. I mean, look at how Noel went Godslayer mode in CS. Thus, Saya is present and working with Izanami since they both desire the world and everything to cease existing.

Yet there is one caveat: Ragna.

Despite it contradicting her goal (why would she care if she didn't desire anything and wants the world to end). It seems that Saya's affection is enough for her to lose sight of the goal and actually get Izanami to help her as well to try to get Ragna. End of the day, Izanami' priority is entropy of everything though, thus it seems she treats Saya's desires more like hormones rather than her own desires.

Notice how Izanami, once rejected by Ragna again, shifts to referring to Ranga as the Black Beast rather than her brother. It seems there is something more subtle going on with her than we think popularly. Likewise, it didn't seem to me like she planned to turn him into a Black Beast at least in CP, but rather it was happenstance since as derpy as Mu is now, she can still slay gods since she is a Kusanagi.

Additionally, Izanami states how she wants Azrael to just defeat all the entitled, which Ragna was confirmed by Rachel to not be one of. And then Izanami got Ragna to shank her so he could realize who his "true enemy was".

 

 

 

 

 

 

In summation, Izanami has had some contradictory actions with her goals when Ragna is involved and she treats him differently from anyone else. She refers to the existence of the Black Beast as separate from Ragna's existence even if it him turning into it, and states she wants Ragna as a servant. Specifically she offers special pact terms to him that subtly indicate her bias toward him compared to him, as she does not stipulate she'll award him death like all her other pact-mates.  I conjecture that there is some funny business going on between Saya and Izanami's relationship due to discrepancy, but it could also be a result of localization errors or bad writing (or sublte foreshadowing). Her dialogue also seems to suggest she actually dislikes the Black Beast and finds it funny that Take Mikazuchi could be useful to her, indicating that they never were a core part of  her plan.

So no, Madness4455, it seems like there is more going on then Izanami wanting Ragna to become a Black Beast. 

 

Don't worry, sir, at least I got a pleasuring read.

My, my who could say this fusion can be a little, "twisted". In my point of view, after reading everything, sounded like Izanami has perfect control at the body, but not everytime. It seems like Saya takes place somewhere whetever Ragna is mentioned of confronted, meaning there still some hope about saving Saya and/or defeating Izanami. Ragna seems the only suited person to do so.

[Toxin45]

Didn't Mori confirmed that the girl inside the Master Unit is Noel?

[Yoshirocks92]

12 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

Didn't Mori confirmed that the girl inside the Master Unit is Noel?

That he did confirm that Noel is the Master Unit which I'm interested in knowing what's the story between Noel and Amaterasu as well as if Noel got another form that's pretty much the Amaterasu's fighting form but that's just a though I have right now.  

[JustaMaskedFreak]

43 minutes ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

That he did confirm that Noel is the Master Unit which I'm interested in knowing what's the story between Noel and Amaterasu as well as if Noel got another form that's pretty much the Amaterasu's fighting form but that's just a though I have right now.  

Hey, I faintly remember something, the first cutscene from CS, that experiment involving the Boundary (or a Cauldron). If I am not wrong, Noel was around outside that place. What if that Noel is the True Noel who was severy wounded and put inside the Unit? I don't have proof to prove it, but this can quite piece together.

Another thing that I remembered was in CP, where Nu and Noel were in that white place. What if both of them are representations of the True Noel and, if that's true, Saya is directly involved into it being a replica from the one inside the Master Unit, attaching with one more motive about why Izanami would want to destroy the Unit.

EDIT: A little more here...

In the end of CP during Ragna and Nu conversation, Nu state that Noel was smelted once during a material of the Black Beast, mentioning also that Terumi wanted to fuse with Noel, but we don't know why...

...

Something is not right...

After writing this I noticed: Nu and Ragna have a Life-Link so does Hazama and Noel...

A Murakumo and an Azure Grimoire...

Does it have some relation about their life-links matching like this or is it just a coincidence?

[Toxin45]

So basically Saya is a copy of a copy wow talk about a paradox probably 

They wanted to make an army of Black Beasts and that we see in Xblaze the original Black Beast possibly died it's dna was proably used to make clones it.