Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Ogiga99]

20 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

Oh Okay  Just checking so why does the bb wikia not see that Watashi and Imouto are Nine and Celica I mean they blaniet referenced that in Central Fiction?

Technically it has never been explicitly stated that Watashi and Imouto are Nine and Celica (although it is so overwhelmingly and blatantly obvious that there is no point in pretending it's not true) so it only states that they are heavily implied to be younger versions. Also, the wiki is severely lacking in information on Lost: Memories in general. While someone seems to have started working on it, it still mostly has only pre-release information and is missing a lot of important details and in some cases is flat out wrong (Watashi did not lose all her memories when she entered the Phantom Field, all she forgot was her name and Nobody told her she would eventually lose all her memories if she didn't give herself a new name, Watashi references her past, her knowledge of magic and her hatred of her father many times while traversing the Phantom Field). If I may do a bit of shameless self-promotion, I've put a LOT of effort into the XBlaze Tvtropes page (as in I can reasonably say I wrote about 90% of it) and while it's nowhere near complete, it should be able to answer a good number of questions regarding the game.

Now getting back on track...

2 hours ago, Calamitus said:

I have found two more pictures.

  Hide contents

Hazama knows how to treat a lady.

 

Thanks for the find. It's always good to see more images even if they don't add any major details. Poor Makoto though. I know we see Hazama and Terumi stomp on downed opponents a lot in gameplay but seeing it like this is a lot more brutal.

[FKGunBlaze]

18 hours ago, Toxin45 said:

Oh Okay  Just checking so why does the bb wikia not see that Watashi and Imouto are Nine and Celica I mean they blaniet referenced that in Central Fiction?

Because it's not official yet. For all we know, Mori could be playing with us.

[Toxin45]

48 minutes ago, GunBlazer said:

Because it's not official yet. For all we know, Mori could be playing with us.

Just like how Tager wasn't confirmed to be Bullet's captain oh wait it did.

[Yoshirocks92]

51 minutes ago, GunBlazer said:

Because it's not official yet. For all we know, Mori could be playing with us.

Very true but I wonder why Mori pulled a plot twist with Noel being Amaterasu and that's one question I would like to see answered in Act III or even the story mode of the console version.

[FKGunBlaze]

Just now, Toxin45 said:

Just like how Tager wasn't confirmed to be Bullet's captain oh wait it did.

That was reinforced in-game with Bullet's EX Story: The Rat, in BBCPEX. And confirmed in BBCF.

Besides, IIRC, XBlaze takes place 150 years before the events of BlazBlue (someone please check). If Nine and Celica were to be Watashi and Imouto, how would they have lived more than a century?

[Yoshirocks92]

1 minute ago, GunBlazer said:

That was reinforced in-game with Bullet's EX Story: The Rat, in BBCPEX. And confirmed in BBCF.

Besides, IIRC, XBlaze takes place 150 years before the events of BlazBlue (someone please check). If Nine and Celica were to be Watashi and Imouto, how would they have lived more than a century?

XBlaze does take place 150 years before BlazBlue. 

[Ogiga99]

1 hour ago, GunBlazer said:

Because it's not official yet. For all we know, Mori could be playing with us.

I doubt even Mori would troll us that much. If Watashi and Imouto aren’t Nine and Celica then they have absolutely no reason to even exist and Nine loses a lot of good character development. There are simply too many similarities between them at this point. In fact I’ll create a comprehensive list of all of them just to show it.

Watashi/Nine:

-Look exactly the same.

-Have the same VA.

-Are both from Ishana.

-Have the same personality (super overprotective of their little sister, angry and hostile to almost everyone else, tend to shoot first and ask questions later).

-Have the same relationship with their father (absolutely hate him).

-Are prodigies as mages (and prefer to use fire magic).

Imouto/Celica:

-Look exactly the same.

-Have the same VA.

-Are both from Ishana.

-Have the same personality (idolize their older sister, near permanently cheerful, kind and trusting towards everyone).

-Have the same relationship with their father (love him and want to see him again despite his supposed evil actions).

-Were born with the ability to suppress seithr around them (which is noted in both XBlaze and BlazBlue as being an impossibly rare and unique power).

There is also all the evidence besides the immediate similarities that support this.

-Nine and Celica turn into Watashi and Imouto in Amane’s Astral Heat (I know it might be just a reference like with Hazama/Kazuma but that one has a logical reason for them being separate people).

-We’ve never seen Nine’s left eye and said eye glows with flames when she uses her Astral Heat. This means there’s a good chance she is hiding her replica Original Grimoire eye.

-Nine’s stage is the Phantom Field. Only Watashi and Imouto know about it and only Watashi is able to get into it since she was able to repair her father’s machine that sent them into the Phantom Field (the machine sending them to the Phantom Field was only a malfunction and it broke after the portal closed but Watashi was able to make it open portals at will after only a few days) so logically Nine is in it now because she knew about it from previous experience.

-The file containing Watashi’s data in Lost: Memories is named “KN” which most likely stands for her real name, Konoe.

-And most damning of all, Lost: Memories trolls you by not letting you give Watashi any names related to her or the Mercury family, namely Konoe, Nine and Phantom. Most importantly, if you try to name her Nine you get the message “It isn’t quite time yet…” which all but confirms she will grow up to be Nine of the Ten Sages.

I apologize for going off on this most likely unnecessary tangent but I thought it might be good to put this all together to demonstrate just stupid and nonsensical it would be for this to be a red herring, especially with all of the hints that can create plot holes if they are different people. I’m not saying it should be put as fact on the wiki yet but I think it’s fine to discuss the characters with the idea that they are the same person.

13 minutes ago, GunBlazer said:

That was reinforced in-game with Bullet's EX Story: The Rat, in BBCPEX. And confirmed in BBCF.

Besides, IIRC, XBlaze takes place 150 years before the events of BlazBlue (someone please check). If Nine and Celica were to be Watashi and Imouto, how would they have lived more than a century?

Only the Touya and Es Code: Embryo stuff takes place in 2050 but since the Phantom Field exists outside of time Watashi and Imouto can be from a later point in time but still let Es go to return to 2050. No date is given for Watashi and Imouto but it definitely takes place in the future of that stuff (Nobody explicitly says Es returning to the 2050 is sending her into the past and would effect Watashi’s future before she learns about the split timeline) and the fact that Watashi had to look back pretty far back in the history books to investigate if the Wadatsumi Incident happened means it’s probably been a few decades so there’s a high probability that their story takes place somewhere in the 2090’s, which would fit their ages in the Dark War (also Nine and Celica are from the time of the Dark War, 2100, which is only 50 years after XBlaze and it's only current BlazBlue that takes place 150 years later, 2200).

[FKGunBlaze]

Now that is a factible argument. Bravo.

[churchblue]

So how will Mori will fit Es in CF? Naoto is the only one who saw her.

[ReRe01]

good question why did Naoto saw Es and no one else I really like to see what part she play when their no XBlade character in the game.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

6 hours ago, ReRe01 said:

good question why did Naoto saw Es and no one else I really like to see what part she play when their no XBlade character in the game.

Unless you consider Watashi being Nine and Imouto being Celica...

[churchblue]

I wonder if Es has a change in her appearance. I don't the illustrators will keep to the same design. She will definitely have an eyepatch (can't seem to find a pic of that). Es VS Nine will probably happen (Es probably HAS a reason of stopping Nine), wonder if Es was still calls her "Watashi" if the theory is right. We still don't Es's current power level yet. I hope the BB Radio Q this month we explain why she is in CF.

[FA-ST]

3 hours ago, churchblue said:

wonder if Es was still calls her "Watashi"

Nobody never refers to Watashi as Watashi, that's a placeholder
It's like when in RPGs you give your character a name and, although it appears in the text, the characters never actually pronounce it, replacing it with nicknames(e.g. Dovahkiin) or straight up skipping it

Also:

3 hours ago, churchblue said:

 Es VS Nine will probably happen

Do you have to repeat this in literally every post you make that has something to do with Es? 

[JustaMaskedFreak]

5 hours ago, churchblue said:

I wonder if Es has a change in her appearance. I don't the illustrators will keep to the same design. She will definitely have an eyepatch (can't seem to find a pic of that). Es VS Nine will probably happen (Es probably HAS a reason of stopping Nine), wonder if Es was still calls her "Watashi" if the theory is right. We still don't Es's current power level yet. I hope the BB Radio Q this month we explain why she is in CF.

Look, until we don't have enough information, we can't state or affirm this fight will really happen, Es even can end as a NPC, like Jubei and Raquel at this current moment, also this can't be confirmed too because we don't know yet what or who will be the last boss from arcade, since the two main threats already were bosses (Nine and Izanami) and it is really unlikely for them become a boss again. Another thing is about only Naoto saw her, (maybe) implying that her role can not be chained to the main story, or only with Naoto Story.

[Ogiga99]

6 hours ago, churchblue said:

I wonder if Es has a change in her appearance. I don't the illustrators will keep to the same design. She will definitely have an eyepatch (can't seem to find a pic of that).

Es no longer wears an eyepatch. Hinata only made the eyepatch for Es since she couldn't open her left eye when she returned to the real world (since it was where Nobody's Phantom Memories were sealed). Freaks cuts off the eyepatch and after Es uses her XBlaze her left eye returns to normal since she used up all of its stored power.

I don't see why they wouldn't keep the design since it's iconic. Even though she mostly switches to a black and white dress in LM, we see in Hinata's Additional Scenario that she does own a copy of her CE dress and sometimes wears it (not sure how frequently since in each of the three Additional Scenarios she wears a different outfit). There doesn't seem to be a reason to have a new one. Personally I hope she's in her CE one since her LM does not look good while she's fighting (even by anime logic clothes standards), especially since her CE one means less panty shots.

2 hours ago, FA-ST said:

Nobody never refers to Watashi as Watashi, that's a placeholder
It's like when in RPGs you give your character a name and, although it appears in the text, the characters never actually pronounce it, replacing it with nicknames(e.g. Dovahkiin) or straight up skipping it

Es (as in human Es not counting Nobody) has addressed Watashi in two different ways. Those are "my beloved friend" and "Nobody" (although this is because Watashi was trolling her when they met inside the Phantom Field Storage and Watashi even tells Es her name isn't really Nobody when she gives Es the same "who am I" riddle she got from Nobody). I don't think Nobody/Es ever had the chance to learn Watashi's name so if they meet again either someone will just say Nine's name and Es will start using it or she will continue to use "my beloved friend".

[Toxin45]

At least Jin finally manage to get over his brother complex.

[Axiomatic]

2 hours ago, Toxin45 said:

At least Jin finally manage to get over his brother complex.

For as much as CF destroyed a lot of the build up we had in the previous games by going back to the CT-CS narrative device of "Lol timeloops/Continuum Shift" with the whole multiple worlds thing, I'm glad we got to keep Jin's character development. The Jinakumen (how we used to refer to Wheel of Fortune Jin) jokes are getting stronger as a result. I'll definitely miss the "Nii-san" voice though, but I'd be more upset we had to repeat the same character arc like we see with Noel/Mu in act 1 where they go through what is effectively a retelling of the whole CT (Noel ) and CS (Mu) scenarios again.

We didn't even get to have the crazy Mu voice either. Now we have angsty Noel and Muel rather than godslayer Mu.

[Luminos564]

12 hours ago, Axiomatic said:

I'll definitely miss the "Nii-san" voice though, but I'd be more upset we had to repeat the same character arc like we see with Noel/Mu in act 1 where they go through what is effectively a retelling of the whole CT (Noel ) and CS (Mu) scenarios again.

We didn't even get to have the crazy Mu voice either. Now we have angsty Noel and Muel rather than godslayer Mu.

Honestly I think we're retreading the events of CT and CS (albeit with alterations to accommodate the characters that weren't present in Mori's sketchbook at the time) simply due to Nine's machinations. For what purpose? Fuck if I know for certain. Perhaps she's orchestrating those events in order to drive Amaterasu insane or at least cause her a great deal of discomfort? If Rachel's "Lonely Monster Girl" story holds any weight, then it stands to reason that Amaterasu hates the thought that no matter how much she interferes, the end result is the same. And I imagine it'd be devastating to learn that even after 725 times and a brief step forward, things settled back into the same old routine. Perhaps this is why Nine is so adamant about irregulars like Naoto, who simply cannot fit into her narrative?

This all being said, the way the story is moving is very much a mess. If CP introduced the idea of 2 sides of misfits banding together in one, singular goal against another group, then CF is essentially splitting everyone up by bringing in all their individual wishes. Everyone is basically doing their own thing and unlike before, there's nary a singular thread or point that connects them all. Between Ragna, Jin and Noel, we have 3 wholly separate desires and motivations in CF. Ragna has no memory right now but is going through the motions as if called to them. Jin wants to blow up the Azure (and maybe even his beloved Niiiiiiiii-saaaaaan) while having a busty ghost lady sharing a space in his brain (side note: I can't imagine Jin's mind being a comfy place to be in). Then you got Noel who's going through another identity crisis, only this time, it's the ApocalypseX100 and all she wants is to go back to being a schoolgirl with her mates. And that's not even bringing up Arakune, Nine, Naoto, Izanami, Kokonoe, Hakumen, Azrael and the rest of the roster weirdos that Mori brought out. It's like I am trying to read all the Dies Irae Acta est Fabula routes and spin-offs simultaneously and then trying to make sense of it all between the Wagner quotes and Latin incantations.

Hopefully Act III serves as an anchor to settle the story into a more cohesive narrative. Right now, the biggest issue I find is the lack of a "true" principal villain. Sure, Nine and Izanami are antagonistic but from the look of things, the whole conflict in the BB-verse is even bigger than themselves. Of course, I do not expect Act III to bring about the end to the franchise (ASW needs a selling point for the console version), but I do hope it sets up the final conflict at the least.

[oh no, he said]

Well, you have to remember that the arcade never tells the full story. Heck, some arcades contain events that never show up in story mode, Amane's CP route is a prime example of this and his first meeting with Rachel, since they already seemed pretty familiar with one another (Amane implies he knew her plan and gets smart with her) when they spoke briefly in the story.

Granted, you'd have to spin the story really hard in order to make the whole "everyone is working solo, pretty much" no longer a thing. To me, it definitely seems intentional on Izanami and Nine's part. They both know that no matter what the person's desire is, Noel is going to give it a big ol' sad panda stamp of rejection, but they send them on a little mini quest to achieve their desires via the azure regardless. Sounds like classic divide and conquer to me. Furthermore, With everyone receiving shards of the azure with or without izanami's approval (here's looking at you Naoto), it makes me think that if a good amount of people worked together and put their pieces together, they might not get autovetoed by Noel, or at least not without some form of consequence that I bet Izanami (and by extent, Noel I guess)

I really don't think act III will be tying much of anything together, but a good direction for the final conflict of Ranga's story, or hints at what could be. 

[Yoshirocks92]

24 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

Then you got Noel who's going through another identity crisis, only this time, it's the ApocalypseX100 and all she wants is to go back to being a schoolgirl with her mates.

I don't think Noel will have a normal life after being revealed to actually be the Master Unit but I hope Act III or even the story mode of the console version should explain everything on what the deal between Noel and Amaterasu.

[Luminos564]

2 hours ago, oh no, he said said:

They both know that no matter what the person's desire is, Noel is going to give it a big ol' sad panda stamp of rejection, but they send them on a little mini quest to achieve their desires via the azure regardless. Sounds like classic divide and conquer to me. Furthermore, With everyone receiving shards of the azure with or without izanami's approval (here's looking at you Naoto), it makes me think that if a good amount of people worked together and put their pieces together, they might not get autovetoed by Noel

The biggest thing right now though is: we have no clue why and how possessing the Azure pieces works as a wish-granting genie. For that matter we also do not know why Amaterasu (or "True Noel") is vetoing the desires of the rest of the characters. Noel is doing it as well, but this seems more involuntary (she's clearly in shock when told this is happening) than her "True" counterpart. After all, it's not as though characters like say Taokaka or Bang would play the role of the "Hero" of her storybook and kill the "Monster Girl" if that's what she's worried about. You'd think she'd jump at the chance at creating a new outcome. So again: why veto the desires of the others? Is she looking for a specific person to fill in that vague role? Or is she simply playing the part she was assigned?

2 hours ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

I don't think Noel will have a normal life after being revealed to actually be the Master Unit but I hope Act III or even the story mode of the console version should explain everything on what the deal between Noel and Amaterasu.

I should hope so. You cannot throw this revelation into the narrative without explaining it. That's like the basic no-no in storytelling. Though again, right now we've just got a bunch of reveals without much context. Time will tell if Mori is capable of connecting them in a believable manner.

But you bring up an interesting little point: where DO the characters go after this big ol' hoedown comes to a close? I mean OK, NOL officials still have a job at the end of the day to keep the populace in check. Noel has her parents (which we've yet to see Mori, so get on that) unless this whole spiel ends with her pulling a Madoka and becoming an abstract concept or something. Sector 7 still needs to provide electricity to a world slowly depleting of seithr. Heck, even Taokaka has her village to look after. But where do characters like Ragna go? Jail? To death's door? What of Hakumen and the rest of the time-displaced souls? What of the Murakumos? It's actually pretty difficult to imagine what they could possibly do when life no longer needs them to merge with Ragna and the like.

[Yoshirocks92]

24 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

I should hope so. You cannot throw this revelation into the narrative without explaining it. That's like the basic no-no in storytelling. Though again, right now we've just got a bunch of reveals without much context. Time will tell if Mori is capable of connecting them in a believable manner.

But you bring up an interesting little point: where DO the characters go after this big ol' hoedown comes to a close? I mean OK, NOL officials still have a job at the end of the day to keep the populace in check. Noel has her parents (which we've yet to see Mori, so get on that) unless this whole spiel ends with her pulling a Madoka and becoming an abstract concept or something. Sector 7 still needs to provide electricity to a world slowly depleting of seithr. Heck, even Taokaka has her village to look after. But where do characters like Ragna go? Jail? To death's door? What of Hakumen and the rest of the time-displaced souls? What of the Murakumos? It's actually pretty difficult to imagine what they could possibly do when life no longer needs them to merge with Ragna and the like.

I can see Mori pulling a Madoka with Noel since I think that Noel is Mori's favorite character but I could be wrong.

[Axiomatic]

5 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

Honestly I think we're retreading the events of CT and CS (albeit with alterations to accommodate the characters that weren't present in Mori's sketchbook at the time) simply due to Nine's machinations. For what purpose? Fuck if I know for certain. Perhaps she's orchestrating those events in order to drive Amaterasu insane or at least cause her a great deal of discomfort? If Rachel's "Lonely Monster Girl" story holds any weight, then it stands to reason that Amaterasu hates the thought that no matter how much she interferes, the end result is the same. And I imagine it'd be devastating to learn that even after 725 times and a brief step forward, things settled back into the same old routine. Perhaps this is why Nine is so adamant about irregulars like Naoto, who simply cannot fit into her narrative?
 

Sometimes Mori's plot makes me want to move to R'lyeh and sympathize with Terumi about how he sees the state of BB's world way back in CS:

 

Terumi: "This world...This world's supposed to be dead. DEAD! But somehow, we managed to screw with it so much that it's gotten stuck, and now it just repeats itself, again and again and again and again and again and again...."

 

I do think you're right about the expanded cast is a good excuse to retread CT, Luminos564. On one hand, its a cheap narrative way to reuse thematic elements and rollback character development like bad netcode while making certain people in the know about whats going on while others haven't a clue.

Quote

Perhaps she's orchestrating those events in order to drive Amaterasu insane or at least cause her a great deal of discomfort?

I definitely think either is viable. Thinking back to Noel's CS story route, the way Terumi talked to Noel definitely seems hold more relevance now with the reveal of True Noel. Like, Terumi probably has the closest connection to True Noel/Amatarasu since he used to be the Susanoo unit (did the three Sankishin used to have meetups or something since they all seem to know the others as well?). Like did he show Noel True Noel's world in his mindbreaking? Her emotions? Anyway, here is the text:

 

 

Terumi mind breaks Noel

Noel hyperventilating

Terumi: "Well, this is no good...I guess spending a hundred years staring at that thing'll mess you up good, huh? My congratulations....Here, why don't you try and remember...REMEMBER all the bad things those mean humans did to you...This thing-they call'em 'prime fields' when they're lazy-devloped emtions. One of those puppets built for nothing but observation and research somehow grew a soul...See, when it grew a soul, this prime field also developed the power of the Eye...the scientists figured this out, and being the sanll, shortsighted little maggots that they were, they tried to destroy it. That didn't work so well, so they decided to seal it back into the Boundary. They threw it all the way to the bottom, down in the darkness, where there was nothing."   

Terumi: "You did see it, right? The real world-the real story?! Can't you hear it? All those hideous little filth-covered monsters, crying! You've gotta feel it...Every single soul on this planet WANTS. YOU. DEAD."

 

If Amatarsu is really True Noel was she somehow the first prime field device that Terumi described and named Noel? In CT Reconstruction, Ragna asks Rachel what our Noel is and she says:

Rachel: "She's the girl chosen to be the origin...the Master Unit...Successor to the Azure"

 

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I don't think Noel will have a normal life after being revealed to actually be the Master Unit but I hope Act III or even the story mode of the console version should explain everything on what the deal between Noel and Amaterasu.

 

I'm right there with you Yoshirocks92, it makes more sense for Noel to be Amatarasu's drive rather than Izanami/Saya for me. I don't know the original Japanese, but the whole "Successor to the Azure" seems to imply a new existence rather than a copy. So are we in an English situation where King Edward III replaces King Edward II? Really not sure...Left all my findings for a braver soul than I to piece together. Like, does True Noel see herself as a monster as seen in Rachel's story book explanation based on how her creators treated her (if we take it Terumi's story in CS was true)? 

 

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Noel is going to give it a big ol' sad panda stamp of rejection, but they send them on a little mini quest to achieve their desires via the azure regardless. Sounds like classic divide and conquer to me. Furthermore, With everyone receiving shards of the azure with or without izanami's approval (here's looking at you Naoto), it makes me think that if a good amount of people worked together and put their pieces together, they might not get autovetoed by Noel, or at least not without some form of consequence that I bet Izanami (and by extent, Noel I guess)

That made me lol, oh no, he said. I definitely agree that employing Sun Tzu tech on these clueless people saves a lot of headaches since the "good guys" showed they can be way more competent together than the bad guys (when shit hits the fan for them, they'll leave their comrades out to dry like we saw with Terumi, Relius, and Izanami). It'd be painful if the reason they're getting vetoed is like how Tsubaki stopped being Jin's secretary (they get their dream and then it all falls apart because of reasons). Mori's got some splaining to do about how Izanami isn't in control of the azure fragments. I came into this shit show thinking she was the manager but it turns out she's just manning the ticket booth for Amatarsu since she is her drive. If Naoto is an outsider, like why does he even get when then?

 

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where DO the characters go after this big ol' hoedown comes to a close? I mean OK, NOL officials still have a job at the end of the day to keep the populace in check. Noel has her parents (which we've yet to see Mori, so get on that) unless this whole spiel ends with her pulling a Madoka and becoming an abstract concept or something. Sector 7 still needs to provide electricity to a world slowly depleting of seithr. Heck, even Taokaka has her village to look after. But where do characters like Ragna go? Jail? To death's door? What of Hakumen and the rest of the time-displaced souls? What of the Murakumos? It's actually pretty difficult to imagine what they could possibly do when life no longer needs them to merge with Ragna and the like.

 I feel the "real world" outside the embryo is fucked up beyond all repair. But with this franchise and phenomenon intervention Mori can handwave it Lumionos564. It kind of mitigates the direness of things when we have reset buttons galore. Thematically, I wouldn't be surprised if Mori has Amatarsu removed in one way or another and then everyone that doesn't get killed off (who am I kidding) accepts the embryo as the new world since Mori has been juggling the theme of accepting something versus reality (Noel and Ragna's convo in CP, Ragna accepting his artifical nature vs Noel breaking from discovering it, Ragna rejecting Nu in CT for being a copy of his sister)for a while now. He's kind of got it lost in the kerfuffle that is his own plot though. I'm just waiting for Ragna to be dying on the ground for good and he finally keeps his promise to Noel to listen to her talk and then Celcia just saves the day somehow. I've gotten real cynical with how BB has been going after CP. In B4 Amane is the true villain, just waiting the whole time, like Kefka or Gilgamesh just chilling until its time for him to come in. 

 

BB's story has lost lots of cohesion in CP onward, I think primarily because Mori's style (if we can call it that) works better in a condensed setting where people can conveniently run into each other. Like you turn a corner and then WHAM! 100% Hakumen is there ready to just unleash his Seigi on you for reasons. I know several authors and story writers that flounder when they change their scope too much, so I'm not surprised Mori lost his footing in CP. 

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This all being said, the way the story is moving is very much a mess. If CP introduced the idea of 2 sides of misfits banding together in one, singular goal against another group, then CF is essentially splitting everyone up by bringing in all their individual wishes. Everyone is basically doing their own thing and unlike before, there's nary a singular thread or point that connects them all. Between Ragna, Jin and Noel, we have 3 wholly separate desires and motivations in CF. Ragna has no memory right now but is going through the motions as if called to them. Jin wants to blow up the Azure (and maybe even his beloved Niiiiiiiii-saaaaaan) while having a busty ghost lady sharing a space in his brain (side note: I can't imagine Jin's mind being a comfy place to be in). Then you got Noel who's going through another identity crisis, only this time, it's the ApocalypseX100 and all she wants is to go back to being a schoolgirl with her mates. And that's not even bringing up Arakune, Nine, Naoto, Izanami, Kokonoe, Hakumen, Azrael and the rest of the roster weirdos that Mori brought out. It's like I am trying to read all the Dies Irae Acta est Fabula routes and spin-offs simultaneously and then trying to make sense of it all between the Wagner quotes and Latin incantations.

I recognize what you're saying about how CF seems to have diverted from the streamline main narrative approach. However, I will contest that BB's story was far better when it was a hot mess of multiple people with different goals like in CT and CS. The core plot of all the BB's has always been a convoluted spectacle, but the characters used to all feel like they mattered and had growth (even if he ran it back with lol Timeloops or lol one of the possibilities of the Continuum Shift). What I am getting at is BB resonated with me more when it was character driven rather than plot driven. Like, rather than everyone fighting the new hotness that is the current act boss why not someone they're connected to? That's just shameless wishlisting though.

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Hopefully Act III serves as an anchor to settle the story into a more cohesive narrative. Right now, the biggest issue I find is the lack of a "true" principal villain. Sure, Nine and Izanami are antagonistic but from the look of things, the whole conflict in the BB-verse is even bigger than themselves. Of course, I do not expect Act III to bring about the end to the franchise (ASW needs a selling point for the console version), but I do hope it sets up the final conflict at the least.

Amen to Act III being more airtight on focus though. I'm still really salty at almost everyone going along with Nine and Izanami's suggestions for the next act. All I wish was we added more substance to the arcade routes this time around instead of the CT and CS way of it  being cookie-cutteresque. As much as Azrael chews the scenery whenever he shows up, the way he causes even the bosses to treat him differently than mostly everyone else is the distinctiveness I wanted. I definitely agree with oh no, he said's thoughts about arcade to story segregation. I'm actually really split though on if Act III gives us a story focal point or is just a red herring (CS vs CP). I do think that True Noel/Amatarasu is going to be the focus for Act III for sure, but how the fragments of Azure factor into that is beyond me.

 

 

[Yoshirocks92]

13 minutes ago, Axiomatic said:

I'm right there with you Yoshirocks92, it makes more sense for Noel to be Amatarasu's drive rather than Izanami/Saya for me. I don't know the original Japanese, but the whole "Successor to the Azure" seems to imply a new existence rather than a copy. So are we in an English situation where King Edward III replaces King Edward II? Really not sure...Left all my findings for a braver soul than I to piece together. Like, does True Noel see herself as a monster as seen in Rachel's story book explanation based on how her creators treated her (if we take it Terumi's story in CS was true)? 

Well it's like that situation with King Edward III or just follow an example with Madoka becoming a higher being when she says her final good byes to Homura and as I'm typing this I'm watching that video on YouTube right now.

[sg1989]

I think, after the path Act 2 of Celica, it could be you the most suitable to become a kind of Madoka, but this is just my speculation