Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Yoshirocks92]

2 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

I hope there's a good reason why Izzy is relying on the rest of the cast to try and kill Noel when she can turn into the mufucking Kusanagi at will.

...okay maybe not, since it seems Mu-12 is her own person in the Embryo, but even still it seems kinda ridiculously tedious to wait around for someone to try and kill her when you can just do it yourself. Is that a typical supervillain thing or something? Is still she worried about getting rekt by Mu-12? Didn't seem that way from Mu-12's arcade ending.

Indeed that is true considering that like the number one rule in villainy like it's true that some villains like to send their henchmen out to stop the heroes but when it comes to the final battle, then the main villain decides to battle the heroes themselves like Bowser from the Mario series does it.  

[Axiomatic]

3 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

I hope there's a good reason why Izzy is relying on the rest of the cast to try and kill Noel when she can turn into the mufucking Kusanagi at will.

...okay maybe not, since it seems Mu-12 is her own person in the Embryo, but even still it seems kinda ridiculously tedious to wait around for someone to try and kill her when you can just do it yourself. ...

Is still she worried about getting rekt by Mu-12? Didn't seem that way from Mu-12's arcade ending.

I can only conjecture, but I think Izanami is relying on others to go after Noel is related to the fact she is Amatarasu Noel's drive. However, I don't recall Izanami being mentioned to possess the Kusanagi moniker. From my understanding, a Kusanagi is a weapon/PFD/murakumo/person that has the ability to observe Amatarasu AND can "kill" her (don't know if it applies to killing just the wielder or destroying the Sankishin unit itself though). That, or she is trying to get Amatarasu Noel to go through trauma by being forced to observe playable Noel getting gank squaded to cause plot in Act 3 or console (make Amatarasu Noel feel unwanted so she stops "rewriting" the story and lets the world end?). 

I agree that Izanami didn't seem flustered when fighting Mu-12 in Act 2 MaximusMurkimus, but remember in CP story mode, she mentions how she has to take her seriously since she is a kusanagi/ the sword of the godslayer. It may be that what caused Izanami to be somewhat serious has to with the "Eye" Noel/Mu possessed as Successor to the Azure. So even though Time Killer won't work on Izanami since her "time" ended pre-CP thus making her unkillable (whatever that means) you can think of that as she has no health bar if I use a game analogy,. Noel/Mu could force Izanami to have a health bar or make it so she has "time" again through observation (Hazama to Noel in CS:"The Eye could observe whatever it wanted and it would become real."). I'm kind of reaching for conclusions with that explanation though.  

[MaximusMurkimus]

Nah, I was referring to Noel as Kusanagi, or rather, can transform into one via Mu-12.

I was also referring to what she said in CP about having to take her serious that got me confused here, since she basically just went "lol you are a shadow, the true self" and Mu-12 just took it despite being the only one who could potentially end her. 

And I find it interesting that while Time Killer did absolutely nothing to Izanami in CP, her running through Ragna's sword was kinda messy, to put it lightly. And yet despite this, when Izayoi tried the same thing intentionally, she no-sold it and kinda just used it to prove her point. So it seems that she is in fact susceptible to some types of damage, but Time Killer was more of a OHK specialized move, and therefore was no good. 

[Ogiga99]

Regarding your disagreement JustaMaskedFreak, Amaterasu wouldn't be the one undoing the deaths in the Embryo, Playable Noel would. As far as we know, Amaterasu has no power inside the Embryo since it is not the world she created from her memories, Noel is the Absolute Entitled who is keeping everything the same by denying the other Entitled of their wishes. Noel is can die because she is the source of the distortion. No distortion means no Embryo resets so people could die. Now that I think about it however, I might be wrong about no one dying. Noel's resets seem to be her running away from responsibility (like how she purged Mu) which is why she rejects any change and just keeps everything the same. This would suggest the inclusion of no one being able to die but I'm starting to think that there are limits to this. The number of characters who are currently either slowly dying or have some sort of time limit is huge (Ragna's existence is being overwritten by Naoto, Rachel is weakening and doomed from interfering, Litchi and Arakune are being corrupted by the Boundary as usual, Platinum is unstable without Trinity and Terumi can only last a week without a vessel) so it's possible that the Embyo resets have limits (namely healing Saya's body).

 

17 hours ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

Indeed that is true considering that like the number one rule in villainy like it's true that some villains like to send their henchmen out to stop the heroes but when it comes to the final battle, then the main villain decides to battle the heroes themselves like Bowser from the Mario series does it.  

I'm fairly certain that there is a reason why Izanami can't just kill Noel/Mu besides her being lazy. Note that the same applied to Nine who, unlike Izanami, is not the type of person who will sit back and let others do her work for her. If Nine could kill Noel then she would have burned her to a crisp in seconds. My personal guess for why they are sending the Entitled after her is that killing Noel has to be done by an Entitled for some reason. Neither Nine nor Izanami seem to be Entitled so it's possible that they cannot do it. BlazBlue's plot has always revolved around creating as many situations as possible that are impossible to solve by "just shoot [insert person here]." We've had Life Links, time loops, continuum shifts, Phenomenon Intervention and several other reasons why everyone has to take like 10 extra steps before they can accomplish their goal or kill someone so this is probably the same situation.

 

7 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

And I find it interesting that while Time Killer did absolutely nothing to Izanami in CP, her running through Ragna's sword was kinda messy, to put it lightly. And yet despite this, when Izayoi tried the same thing intentionally, she no-sold it and kinda just used it to prove her point. So it seems that she is in fact susceptible to some types of damage, but Time Killer was more of a OHK specialized move, and therefore was no good. 

It's been established that while killing Izanami is impossible (since she is "death"/The Girl's Drive), destroying her host body, Saya, is doable. In Hakumen's ending Izanami says that Hakumen is trying to defeat her over and over until her vessel reaches it's limit. However, because Izanami is "that woman's" antonym she cannot be destroyed (since she doesn't seem to know that she is The Girl's Drive I assume she means she cannot die because she is the death that is a natural part of the world created by the Amaterasu Unit). From Kagura's ending we know that she can basically make attacks pass right through her. In Ragna's ending he makes it clear that she let him stab her so it's likely that she can "turn off" her immunity from damage due to being "death" (or at least make it not protect her body). Notably there are certain characters who can flat out hurt her against her will though so it's likely that her immunity is limited. We've seen that Relius can wreck her and she is on the ground looking defeated while Rachel is standing over her in their fight, suggesting Rachel actually won.

[Yoshirocks92]

8 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

I'm fairly certain that there is a reason why Izanami can't just kill Noel/Mu besides her being lazy. Note that the same applied to Nine who, unlike Izanami, is not the type of person who will sit back and let others do her work for her. If Nine could kill Noel then she would have burned her to a crisp in seconds. My personal guess for why they are sending the Entitled after her is that killing Noel has to be done by an Entitled for some reason. Neither Nine nor Izanami seem to be Entitled so it's possible that they cannot do it. BlazBlue's plot has always revolved around creating as many situations as possible that are impossible to solve by "just shoot [insert person here]." We've had Life Links, time loops, continuum shifts, Phenomenon Intervention and several other reasons why everyone has to take like 10 extra steps before they can accomplish their goal or kill someone so this is probably the same situation..

Mmm I can see the reason for it and why Izanami and Nine aren't able to kill Noel.

[Toxin45]

The girl's drive Izanami is it Noel or the girl inside the master unit

[Ogiga99]

22 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

The girl's drive Izanami is it Noel or the girl inside the master unit

The girl in the Master Unit. When Rachel says Izanami is "Her" Drive, she is doing so to explain why even Izanami cannot otherthrow "the will of she who nobody is higher than in existence" which is the Amaterasu Girl who created the world. Sourenga subtitled this as "Superior Entitled" but that seems incorrect to me since that term only applies to Noel and when Izanami uses it in Carl's ending she actually uses the word "Entitled" that time (not positive if I'm writing it correctly but "shikaku sha" is the equivalent word used in Carl's but not Rachel's). Also Izanami has existed since before Noel's creation but cannot survive without "Her".

[JustaMaskedFreak]

13 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

Regarding your disagreement JustaMaskedFreak, Amaterasu wouldn't be the one undoing the deaths in the Embryo, Playable Noel would. As far as we know, Amaterasu has no power inside the Embryo since it is not the world she created from her memories, Noel is the Absolute Entitled who is keeping everything the same by denying the other Entitled of their wishes. Noel is can die because she is the source of the distortion. No distortion means no Embryo resets so people could die. Now that I think about it however, I might be wrong about no one dying. Noel's resets seem to be her running away from responsibility (like how she purged Mu) which is why she rejects any change and just keeps everything the same. This would suggest the inclusion of no one being able to die but I'm starting to think that there are limits to this. The number of characters who are currently either slowly dying or have some sort of time limit is huge (Ragna's existence is being overwritten by Naoto, Rachel is weakening and doomed from interfering, Litchi and Arakune are being corrupted by the Boundary as usual, Platinum is unstable without Trinity and Terumi can only last a week without a vessel) so it's possible that the Embyo resets have limits (namely healing Saya's body).

So, let me get this straight: The recent resets inside Embryo was Noel's doing, not Amaterasu? But isn't Amaterasu inside the Embryo too, when Izanami created it and if so, why Amaterasu didn't just tried to undo it, since is not from her memories. Well, moving ahead, then one thing that could make too Izanami says to most of the people to kill Noel could be just to herself handle the Master Unit.

But there is one thing in my mind. Destroying Amaterasu should be something like Life-link with Noel, which means killing and destroying them at the same time, since both can reset the world.

[Ogiga99]

2 hours ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

So, let me get this straight: The recent resets inside Embryo was Noel's doing, not Amaterasu? But isn't Amaterasu inside the Embryo too, when Izanami created it and if so, why Amaterasu didn't just tried to undo it, since is not from her memories. Well, moving ahead, then one thing that could make too Izanami says to most of the people to kill Noel could be just to herself handle the Master Unit.

But there is one thing in my mind. Destroying Amaterasu should be something like Life-link with Noel, which means killing and destroying them at the same time, since both can reset the world.

I don't think Amaterasu can effect the Embryo. Ever since it came to the real world in CP it hasn't take any action suggesting it has a limit to its Intervention. Furthermore the Embryo isn't the world of "Her" memories. The Embryo is essentially its own world, made with the purpose of remaking the world from the beginning. While the Amaterasu Unit might be able to prevent the Embryo world from completely rewriting her world, it cannot do anything about the world within the Embryo itself, which can only be shaped by the Entitled and the Azure. Killing Noel definitely appears to be a necessary step to destroying the Master Unit but the exact reason why is unclear.

Again, Amaterasu seemingly can't reset the Embryo so Noel needs to be killed first. The world can exist without Noel since she's died in several timelines, was born late into the time loop and didn't survive Ibukido in some Phases. Izanami wouldn't send everyone after Noel at the moment if they had something like a Life Link since Amaterasu is, as far as we know, still protected by the Tsukuyomi Unit, meaning it cannot be destroyed yet.

[Toxin45]

Jin is still a little yandere I noticed just not more Blanet It seems that he is more calmer about fighting Ragna now.So Yeah I don't think Noel is really the Master Unit and also I now think Rachel will have an identity crisis in Act III if she meets Raquel and Ragna getting a tomato in the mirror being the Original something.

[Volt]

I don't know why, but I think that Ragna will try to replace the Amaterasu Girl. It's not like he didn't tell Celica in the Phase Novels "BRB, going inside the Black Beast real quick, hold my paradoxical jacket and that sword that's bigger than you too. K, thanks bye."

That's the vibe I'm getting from that Act III Ragna picture. Man, story mode is going to be crazy.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

Just now, Volt said:

I don't know why, but I think that Ragna will try to replace the Amaterasu Girl. It's not like he didn't tell Celica in the Phase Novels "BRB, going inside the Black Beast real quick, hold my paradoxical jacket and that sword that's bigger than you too. K, thanks bye."

That's the vibe I'm getting from that Act III Ragna picture. Man, story mode is going to be crazy.

Probably next week we gonna have the last opening and it may give some hints about what is coming.

[Yoshirocks92]

1 minute ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

Probably next week we gonna have the last opening and it may give some hints about what is coming.

Yeah and at least when we get the opening to Act III then the pieces will come together and we can see what we could expect. 

[sg1989]

8 hours ago, Volt said:

I don't know why, but I think that Ragna will try to replace the Amaterasu Girl. It's not like he didn't tell Celica in the Phase Novels "BRB, going inside the Black Beast real quick, hold my paradoxical jacket and that sword that's bigger than you too. K, thanks bye."

That's the vibe I'm getting from that Act III Ragna picture. Man, story mode is going to be crazy.

after the end of Act 2 of celica, i think she is more suitable for a replacement for the girl inside of amaterasu.

But, this only my opinion

 

[FKGunBlaze]

47 minutes ago, sg1989 said:

after the end of Act 2 of celica, i think she is more suitable for a replacement for the girl inside of amaterasu.

But, this only my opinion

 

Even with no memory, Rags wouldn't allow that.

[sg1989]

4 hours ago, GunBlazer said:

Even with no memory, Rags wouldn't allow that.

yes, but, I do not know if Mori want to repeat the ''ragna sacrifice and celica forever alone'' (phase shift novel)

Also in its act2, I think I understand that it is determined to stop the plan of Izanami and nine anyway ... but mine are just speculations, act 3 will give us all the answers

 

[JustaMaskedFreak]

5 hours ago, sg1989 said:

yes, but, I do not know if Mori want to repeat the ''ragna sacrifice and celica forever alone'' (phase shift novel)

Also in its act2, I think I understand that it is determined to stop the plan of Izanami and nine anyway ... but mine are just speculations, act 3 will give us all the answers

 

I do not think EVERY answer will be shown for us. They need some for Story mode too. And they can make even more questions rise.

[Contreras1991]

On 3/3/2016 at 7:01 PM, MaximusMurkimus said:

How about "Big Noel" for the Noel within the Master Unit and "Venom Noel" for the playable one :P

well with all the noel theories this song came to my mind  (Big Noel aka Naked Noel, Punished Venom Noel)

 

[MaximusMurkimus]

Does this mean Izanami is Solidus Noel? High ranking position, previously known identity (Imperator/President), currently unexpected identity (Izanami/Solidus), feuding with biological brothers (Snake/Ragna)

Omg Mori if you wanted to make MGS all along all you had to do was ask (so that they could say no)

[Crow the BOOLET]

Kind of an off topic-y subject but its related in a sense as it does explore the world at the time but

Do we have translated win quotes and intros? I'm curious on what characters say about others.

[Ogiga99]

On March 10, 2016 at 6:09 AM, sg1989 said:

after the end of Act 2 of celica, i think she is more suitable for a replacement for the girl inside of amaterasu.

But, this only my opinion

 

I find it a bit difficult to see Celica becoming the new girl in Amaterasu and creating the world she wishes for. Specifically because this isn't the end of BlazBlue, just Ragna's story. If Celica creates the world then I suspect it would be all butterflies and rainbows which would make it hard to continue the plot.

12 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Does this mean Izanami is Solidus Noel? High ranking position, previously known identity (Imperator/President), currently unexpected identity (Izanami/Solidus), feuding with biological brothers (Snake/Ragna)

Omg Mori if you wanted to make MGS all along all you had to do was ask (so that they could say no)

Honestly I just think Mori wanted to create the ultimate anime/video game plot, with literally every element that includes. The cast is made up of every kind of character you could think of (vampires, catgirls, cyborgs, slime monsters, ninjas, robot girls, werewolves, magical girls, mad scientists, ghosts, mages, gods etc.) with every trait and trope included and in some cases seem like they were assigned by pulling them out of a hat. It has the most intricate and convoluted plot imaginable with time travel, paradoxes, alternate timelines, time loops, multiple versions of the same people, rewriting reality and people trying to become god among other things. It also seems determined to reference and take ideas from anything and everything it can. It's no surprise that the plot starts to mirror other things and it has similarities with way more series than just MSG.

11 hours ago, Crow the BOOLET said:

Kind of an off topic-y subject but its related in a sense as it does explore the world at the time but

Do we have translated win quotes and intros? I'm curious on what characters say about others.

Not that I know of. However there is one that I found back in Act I that I managed to translate with my limited knowledge of Japanese which I think is very interesting. When Hakumen defeats Naoto he says “That arm… that evil power… impossible, is that the Dark One!?” (the line in Japanese is “Sono ude… ,magake chikara… bakana, Kuroki Mono datou!?” so if I'm reading it wrong let me know a more proper translation). What this means is that Hakumen feels the same kind of evil power from Naoto's arm (almost certainly the blood arm and not the artificial one made by Relius) as he does from Ragna, specifically the power of the Azure Grimoire and the Black Beast. Considering the fact that Ragna recognized Bloodedge, activating Bloodedge mirrors Ragna's appearance after he got the Azure Grimoire and that the mysterious guy with an obsidian black arm who gives Naoto the limbs made of black fog (which has always been linked to the Black Beast) in BE2 looks like Ragna, this could be a hint that the Drive Bloodedge has a direct connection with the Black Beast (heck Touya also has the power of the Black Beast and his Drive is the same as Bloodedge, although it's never named). Thoughts?

[Contreras1991]

14 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Does this mean Izanami is Solidus Noel? High ranking position, previously known identity (Imperator/President), currently unexpected identity (Izanami/Solidus), feuding with biological brothers (Snake/Ragna)

Omg Mori if you wanted to make MGS all along all you had to do was ask (so that they could say no)

so where is Liquid and Solid Noel? xD

[Fenris]

It seems people have been trying to figure out what the connections between Touya, Naoto, and Ragna are for quite a while now, if there are any, and this isn't unfounded. I mean, there seem to be hints all over the place. This got me thinking for a bit: What if Naoto's vision of Es during that one scene the result of Touya's influence? It could be a connection at the soul/subconscious level or something else entirely. I know, at this point we have very little information to work with, but if all the hints are any indication, I wouldn't be surprised if this little pet theory proves true at some point during the next act or the console story mode. Agh... Come on, Mori. Let's wrap this up...

[kylehyde]

3 hours ago, Fenris said:

It seems people have been trying to figure out what the connections between Touya, Naoto, and Ragna are for quite a while now, if there are any, and this isn't unfounded. I mean, there seem to be hints all over the place. This got me thinking for a bit: What if Naoto's vision of Es during that one scene the result of Touya's influence? It could be a connection at the soul/subconscious level or something else entirely. I know, at this point we have very little information to work with, but if all the hints are any indication, I wouldn't be surprised if this little pet theory proves true at some point during the next act or the console story mode. Agh... Come on, Mori. Let's wrap this up...

I'm hoping the connection between them is all kinds of ridiculousness that only Mori can give us.

[Toxin45]

So special quotes between izayoi and tsubaki confirms that they are more or less are separate entities Izayoi  tells tsubaki to look beyond the future while tsubaki is freaked out by her