Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Ogiga99]

1 hour ago, BlazGearRegalia said:

Es does have access to the True Azure, as Ogiga mentioned, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's become one with it.

Woah! Hold on a moment, that was just a theory. Aside from her being the guardian of the gate to the realm of the gods, her wanting to guide Ragna to said gate per the will of the Azure, her having blue eyes again that suggest some kind of connection to the Azure and her wielding a giant sword that looks different than the Crystal Sealing Blade: Murakumo, we know pretty much nothing about Es's role in Central Fiction. I want to nip this in the bud before I'm the source of widespread misinformation.

[BlazGearRegalia]

My fault. Should've checked again. It did felt on point to what we're dealing with, but again, my mistake for not checking.

[Luminos564]

I leave you guys alone for less than a day and everything starts exploding? The hype's too real it seems. I dread to think how fast it'll all go up when the console release hits.

So, I've been thinking in my time away. We know that the Power of SEIGI Order wielders most often want Ragna dead. Jin, Haku-men and even Tsubaki are sharpening their knives for this reason (though we have no confirmation on Makoto since apparently she too is capable of using it). But, has it ever been explained exactly why the Power of Order wants Ragna dead? Is it because he runs the risk of turning into a Black Beast? Well then why aren't all the P.o.O users gunning after Hazama / Terumi? He runs the risk of becoming one himself because that's apparently what he wanted in the past. Likewise, why aren't they hunting down Arakune and Nu-13? They present just as much, if not more danger of turning into it. Ragna can at least "resist" the temptation (Izanami putting his Azure grimoire into overload, not so much).

Is it because of the whole, World's Antibody? Antibodies by definition are supposed to be going after "foreign", dangerous antigens that threaten the biological system. In this case, it's elements that threaten the world of Blazblue. But once again, why aren't the P.o.O users then going after the bigger threats in Nine, Izanami, Relius and Terumi? I mean it's kind of like going after a terrorist while the world is being bombarded by nuclear warheads from all sides. The point is moot by then.

So I have to ask: what's so specifically about Ragna that requires the need of extermination by the Power of Order? It seems like there's something personal about it.

[heavymetalmixer]

14 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

I leave you guys alone for less than a day and everything starts exploding? The hype's too real it seems. I dread to think how fast it'll all go up when the console release hits.

So, I've been thinking in my time away. We know that the Power of SEIGI Order wielders most often want Ragna dead. Jin, Haku-men and even Tsubaki are sharpening their knives for this reason (though we have no confirmation on Makoto since apparently she too is capable of using it). But, has it ever been explained exactly why the Power of Order wants Ragna dead? Is it because he runs the risk of turning into a Black Beast? Well then why aren't all the P.o.O users gunning after Hazama / Terumi? He runs the risk of becoming one himself because that's apparently what he wanted in the past. Likewise, why aren't they hunting down Arakune and Nu-13? They present just as much, if not more danger of turning into it. Ragna can at least "resist" the temptation (Izanami putting his Azure grimoire into overload, not so much).

Is it because of the whole, World's Antibody? Antibodies by definition are supposed to be going after "foreign", dangerous antigens that threaten the biological system. In this case, it's elements that threaten the world of Blazblue. But once again, why aren't the P.o.O users then going after the bigger threats in Nine, Izanami, Relius and Terumi? I mean it's kind of like going after a terrorist while the world is being bombarded by nuclear warheads from all sides. The point is moot by then.

So I have to ask: what's so specifically about Ragna that requires the need of extermination by the Power of Order? It seems like there's something personal about it.

That's good question, still, remember that Hakumen and Tsubaki (since she got the Zero Wave Izayoi) want Terumi dead too.

[Contreras1991]

that's actually a good question it seems that everybody wants him dead so badly

[Ogiga99]

41 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

I leave you guys alone for less than a day and everything starts exploding? The hype's too real it seems. I dread to think how fast it'll all go up when the console release hits.

So, I've been thinking in my time away. We know that the Power of SEIGI Order wielders most often want Ragna dead. Jin, Haku-men and even Tsubaki are sharpening their knives for this reason (though we have no confirmation on Makoto since apparently she too is capable of using it). But, has it ever been explained exactly why the Power of Order wants Ragna dead? Is it because he runs the risk of turning into a Black Beast? Well then why aren't all the P.o.O users gunning after Hazama / Terumi? He runs the risk of becoming one himself because that's apparently what he wanted in the past. Likewise, why aren't they hunting down Arakune and Nu-13? They present just as much, if not more danger of turning into it. Ragna can at least "resist" the temptation (Izanami putting his Azure grimoire into overload, not so much).

Is it because of the whole, World's Antibody? Antibodies by definition are supposed to be going after "foreign", dangerous antigens that threaten the biological system. In this case, it's elements that threaten the world of Blazblue. But once again, why aren't the P.o.O users then going after the bigger threats in Nine, Izanami, Relius and Terumi? I mean it's kind of like going after a terrorist while the world is being bombarded by nuclear warheads from all sides. The point is moot by then.

So I have to ask: what's so specifically about Ragna that requires the need of extermination by the Power of Order? It seems like there's something personal about it.

From what I understand, the Power of Order is born as the World's Antibody as a direct response to a certain threat. It is meant to be the balancing factor. In this case, Jin and Hakumen's Power was created specifically to oppose the Black Beast. It's not a matter of the world objectively thinking about what could be a threat, it is a response to an existing threat. Ragna's Azure Grimoire is different from Hazama's since it literally is the Black Beast's corpse. The Power of Order that was created to fight the Black Beast is focused on Ragna because he literally is the very source of evil and destruction it was meant to counter. Izanami and co. might be threats in the sense that they are evil and have plans to destroy the world but the World isn't thinking of it from that perspective. Ragna is the Dark One, he already has the power of the Black Beast and it is always corrupting him further, leading to its return. Izanami, Terumi, Relius and Nine might be trying to create the Embryo and reset the world, but only the Black Beast literally has the power to wipe out everyone on earth, which is the strongest threat.

[Luminos564]

15 minutes ago, heavymetalmixer said:

That's good question, still, remember that Hakumen and Tsubaki (since she got the Zero Wave Izayoi) want Terumi dead too.

For Haku-men it seems more like a personal grudge than anything. He specifically targets Ragna because, in his head, this somehow must be done. Though to his defense, he had to go through with it 725 times before and it still pains him every time. Enough to want to off himself right afterward out of repentance. Tsubaki however I am not sure. At this point she should be aware of Terumi's true nature. I mean she got a front row treatment to his machinations in CS. Yet apparently, Ragna is the "pure evil" one . Sure Tsubaki, whatever ya say.

Well actually, that's not fair to her. She at least has quite the list of reasons to not like the guy. Injuring Jin and Noel, the former's own near psychotic obsession over his brother along with being a terrorist at the end of the day are solid enough reasons for it.

But this isn't concern either. Individuals of the Power of Order are not mindless. They can think clearly and pick their battles. My question is more in line: if the Power of Order is the force that is trying to keep the "evil from consuming the world", why is it (what seems to be) solely focused on Ragna?

EDIT: Ogiga, alright I can understand that bit. What I do not understand is, why isn't the Power of Order sending its soldiers after Arakune? Ragna has the Black Beast's corpse grafted onto him. Fair enough. But Arakune IS a full-on mini-Black Beast. Ragna at the minimum is still human enough, but Arakune isn't. And look, if Es' stage is anything to go by, leaving him unattended just let him become the biggest threat ever (assuming that Black Beast IS Arakune after mega-evolving).

[Shakaw]

23 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

From what I understand, the Power of Order is born as the World's Antibody as a direct response to a certain threat. It is meant to be the balancing factor. In this case, Jin and Hakumen's Power was created specifically to oppose the Black Beast. It's not a matter of the world objectively thinking about what could be a threat, it is a response to an existing threat. Ragna's Azure Grimoire is different from Hazama's since it literally is the Black Beast's corpse. The Power of Order that was created to fight the Black Beast is focused on Ragna because he literally is the very source of evil and destruction it was meant to counter. Izanami and co. might be threats in the sense that they are evil and have plans to destroy the world but the World isn't thinking of it from that perspective. Ragna is the Dark One, he already has the power of the Black Beast and it is always corrupting him further, leading to its return. Izanami, Terumi, Relius and Nine might be trying to create the Embryo and reset the world, but only the Black Beast literally has the power to wipe out everyone on earth, which is the strongest threat.

I just do not understand why you said Izanami, Terumi, Relius and Nine wanted to create the Embryo to reset the world. How do they do that? Or rather, as the Embryo would be able to reset the world? Thank you very much.

[Zedar90]

26 minutes ago, Shakaw said:

I just do not understand why you said Izanami, Terumi, Relius and Nine wanted to create the Embryo to reset the world. How do they do that? Or rather, as the Embryo would be able to reset the world? Thank you very much.

The entire world is made out of seithr, it's like the building blocks of the world.
The embryo is only a sphere with zero mass made out of seithr of the world. It drains all of the seithr in the world so the world can be built a new, in  other words the old world should be a wasteland now until it's entirely gone.
So whats left is to either create a new world or restore the world like it was before the embryo was created.

[MaximusMurkimus]

Okay, so we talk a lot about who isn't gonna die, but yeah, someone has to go for good this time....right?

I don't know who would be the most shocking at this point, since everyone kinda has been in killed/ in danger of dying at least once, but I think offing Kokonoe through Nine or Tsubaki via Jin/Hakumen would be kinda ballsy. Taokaka isn't expendable and even if she was it would've been a low-risk death, and Lambda would surprise absolutely nobody....again.

[Shakaw]

2 minutes ago, Zedar90 said:

The entire world is made out of seithr, it's like the building blocks of the world.
The embryo is only a sphere with zero mass made out of seithr of the world. It drains all of the seithr in the world so the world can be built a new, in  other words the old world should be a wasteland now until it's entirely gone.
So whats left is to either create a new world or restore the world like it was before the embryo was created.

Thank you for the information, Zedar90. Helped me a lot. Thank you very much! ;D

[Shinhwa]

Maybe I missed it but did we get Relius' Act III Ending yet?

[oh no, he said]

1 hour ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Okay, so we talk a lot about who isn't gonna die, but yeah, someone has to go for good this time....right?

I don't know who would be the most shocking at this point, since everyone kinda has been in killed/ in danger of dying at least once, but I think offing Kokonoe through Nine or Tsubaki via Jin/Hakumen would be kinda ballsy. Taokaka isn't expendable and even if she was it would've been a low-risk death, and Lambda would surprise absolutely nobody....again.

Well, Celica has very numbered days, and Nine will likely go back into the ground after all's said and done, so as of right now chopping block seems to be Ragna, Rachel, Arakune, Tager (ominous AF ending tho), Any but most certainly not all member of the 6 heroes, and any saya clones except for maybe Mu and Noel. Kagura and Hibiki have both started tripping on death flags, though not especially many, and Hazama is a wildcard. Plaintum's whole deal is a little bit up in the air right now, so let's all join hands and pray that Luna does not survive the ordeal so based Sena can be the last man standing. Relius and Terumi would make sense, but Relius dying wouldn't feel.... satisfying, in my opinion, he's the type of villain who gets locked away forever, thematically speaking, and Terumi has enough stamps on his "jk not really dead, lol." card to redeem a free pizza on his next brief stint in the afterlife, so good fucking luck getting that shit to stick.

Everyone else is probably safe. 

[Zedar90]

20 minutes ago, Shinhwa said:

Maybe I missed it but did we get Relius' Act III Ending yet?

3 Tager
6 Noel
7 Rachel
8 Valkenhayn

Seems like nothing interesting was said in it, it ends with Relius says to Valkenhayn that soon someone will destroy the master unit and create an world of chaos, and when that happen something that Relius had prepared will create the world. “To construct a new world from chaos. That's a very interesting theme, don't you think?”

But truth to be told, the arcade summaries have slowed down, and I don't expect many more to pop up by now. Will probably have to wait for the console release, or if we're lucky and Arcsys feels like to be "generous", we could perhaps get an early access like Revelator had(I'm not believing it will happen though...).

[MaximusMurkimus]

As for my (unpopular) thoughts on resetting the world to bring a happy ending, like someone said, at the end of the day Ragna would probably rather be chilling at the church or in a hierarchical city with Jin, Saya, and his guardian slash love interest Celica.

But when your brother is now mental vigilante and your sister is a death goddess, what are the chances of that actually being possible in the current situation? I hardly doubt the three will just go "so....we cool right" and live happily ever after, which means that I feel it wouldn't feel too shocking to see that none of the three actually survive without the aforementioned time reset where they never grew up to be complete messes.

That being said, I remember in an interview years ago Mori mentioned that Noel will get her happy ending, and since that kinda involves at least Ragna surviving, it could probably go either way.

[ChainRevolver]

39 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

As for my (unpopular) thoughts on resetting the world to bring a happy ending, like someone said, at the end of the day Ragna would probably rather be chilling at the church or in a hierarchical city with Jin, Saya, and his guardian slash love interest Celica.

But when your brother is now mental vigilante and your sister is a death goddess, what are the chances of that actually being possible in the current situation? I hardly doubt the three will just go "so....we cool right" and live happily ever after, which means that I feel it wouldn't feel too shocking to see that none of the three actually survive without the aforementioned time reset where they never grew up to be complete messes.

That being said, I remember in an interview years ago Mori mentioned that Noel will get her happy ending, and since that kinda involves at least Ragna surviving, it could probably go either way.

Yep. They'll be chilling on Jin's 'Brotherly Paradise'. Haha. :P

 

I wonder what will be our Noellers' ending...it might has something to do with Amaterasu. Ah! No matter, I'm sooo excited about it!

 

 

 

[Stryker115]

1 hour ago, oh no, he said said:

Luna does not survive the ordeal so based Sena can be the last man standing.

He'd have to live with the fact that he now has to live as a girl... He'd probably have to ask pointers from Mai

Unless of course Trinity finally gave them separate bodies

[Stryker115]

1 hour ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

As for my (unpopular) thoughts on resetting the world to bring a happy ending, like someone said, at the end of the day Ragna would probably rather be chilling at the church or in a hierarchical city with Jin, Saya, and his guardian slash love interest Celica.

But when your brother is now mental vigilante and your sister is a death goddess, what are the chances of that actually being possible in the current situation?

It could still work, albeit in a comical sitcom like situation with crazy shenanigans and everything

Just hope that it doesn't have a laugh track, because that would kill me

[BlazGearRegalia]

3 hours ago, oh no, he said said:

Well, Celica has very numbered days, and Nine will likely go back into the ground after all's said and done, so as of right now chopping block seems to be Ragna, Rachel, Arakune, Tager (ominous AF ending tho), Any but most certainly not all member of the 6 heroes, and any saya clones except for maybe Mu and Noel. Kagura and Hibiki have both started tripping on death flags, though not especially many, and Hazama is a wildcard. Plaintum's whole deal is a little bit up in the air right now, so let's all join hands and pray that Luna does not survive the ordeal so based Sena can be the last man standing. Relius and Terumi would make sense, but Relius dying wouldn't feel.... satisfying, in my opinion, he's the type of villain who gets locked away forever, thematically speaking, and Terumi has enough stamps on his "jk not really dead, lol." card to redeem a free pizza on his next brief stint in the afterlife, so good fucking luck getting that shit to stick.

Everyone else is probably safe. 

Hakumen is certain to die, as he mentioned in CP that his time is running out. [While I'm not sure what he meant, I'm pretty sure it may be his life fading] and unless Es knocks some sense into her, Nine is very well on the chopping block [No, why must we kill the beautiful milf!? Take Litchi instead!], and Terumi will just keep trolling us unless there is a way to kill him permanently and not have to deal with the Self Observation. *cue the Trololol Song*

 

And speaking of Boobzilla, she ought to be added to the list of the chopping block. The woman's corruption from the Boundary has put her to the point of no return, she is still chasing Arakune, even after Roy himself told her to forget and if she did kill the vessel, and I'd be damned if she survived [the only thing I can see her doing afterwards is drinking her life away and moping], and oh do I pray to the Azure that Luna goes.

 

The only way Nu is gonna get offed is if Ragna can't save her. [And he has provened to achieve feats everyone else says to him is impossible] 

 

Frankly, I can't see anything that'll satisfy us when it comes to Relius with everything he's done. Oh, and unless Carl stops acting like the heartless bastard he is now, he's on the list as well.

3 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

As for my (unpopular) thoughts on resetting the world to bring a happy ending, like someone said, at the end of the day Ragna would probably rather be chilling at the church or in a hierarchical city with Jin, Saya, and his guardian slash love interest Celica.

But when your brother is now mental vigilante and your sister is a death goddess, what are the chances of that actually being possible in the current situation? I hardly doubt the three will just go "so....we cool right" and live happily ever after, which means that I feel it wouldn't feel too shocking to see that none of the three actually survive without the aforementioned time reset where they never grew up to be complete messes.

That being said, I remember in an interview years ago Mori mentioned that Noel will get her happy ending, and since that kinda involves at least Ragna surviving, it could probably go either way.

Well, my hopes for Noel to be offed have been crushed...

No hate, it's just, with everything that's happened thanks to her meddling, keeping her alive is just asking for more trouble down the road. [at least, that's how I'm looking at it]

 

Here's how I see her ending: Everything gets resolved, Noel goes, "Yay, I can finally be a normal girl!", goes to find Ragna, Ragna looks at her and goes "Nope, I'm not dealing with you anymore, you're on your own.", leaves her crying like her usual self, Makoto/Tsubaki cheers her up, and then [maybe, hopefully] they become a lesbian couple! No, seriously, the dialogue between Noel and Tsubaki throughout the series made me think they were gonna be a lesbian couple, and given how Noel likes to act when being with Makoto, it's just screaming for all three to be lesbians. Please Mori, I pray to you, make the lesbian dream come true! XD

[TD]

Feel like Jin is gonna die. Not sure why though :s

[Kenji Harima]

8 hours ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

I remember in an interview years ago Mori mentioned that Noel will get her happy ending

But you know in a different interview he said that he is a liar so...

Of course they often lie about gameplay (for example DLC characters in CP) than in-game story but still it's better to have some distance.

It's just a simple marketing for fans to make them stay in "hype mode" nothing more.

4 hours ago, BlazGearRegalia said:

No hate, it's just, with everything that's happened thanks to her meddling, keeping her alive is just asking for more trouble down the road. [at least, that's how I'm looking at it]

The truth is that her soul should stay in the Azure. Whoever this girl originally was her lifetime has ended but after all  I am going to be still in my statement that she isn't responsible personally for all this mess so if she has got second chance to live than leave her alone. Group of people and other beings who in majority we know are guilty of this disorder.

That's why I don't see any reason that Noel should be killed.

To this point we got some hints (a very little one) that Izanami can be stopped without Noel's dead.

Of course there is another way (or rather dumb idea) that Noel knows about everything and she is just lying and pretending in the whole story cause of her selfishness and the truth will show at the end but this will make her another (but bigger one) Trollzama 2.0 and that would be a very.... stupid.

 

16 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

Celica has a temporary soul, a clone of her soul from the Dark War

3 hours ago, Stryker115 said:

I expect all the Saya clones plus maybe Saya herself to merge into one entity though

I am starting to think that Saya's soul (if she has of course but Izanami reactions are showing that Saya is still there) is clone or another piece of Noel's soul (or better which OPFD gained. I wrote my thoughts in previous pages) so I would add that not only Saya and her clones but also Noel (and maybe Izanami) should be merge.

I don't believe that in term of souls Saya-Noel aren't related.

8 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

But truth to be told, the arcade summaries have slowed down, and I don't expect many more to pop up by now. Will probably have to wait for the console release, or if we're lucky and Arcsys feels like to be "generous",

Sad but I hope that we will get Ragna's Act 3 before console release. Speaking of the console we will get all the story before we will play the game (or most of us) itself lol.

 

In speculation who will die I am very afraid that will be our "Queen of Rose" who sacrificed her luxury life.

------------

39 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

Where did you hear Izanami say that her body is breaking down? Most I've seen is her resistance after fighting Naoto and Terumi going "well don't overdo it" in CP.

 

OMG, my bad. Sorry for mistake. It was hinted but not directly by Relius in Act 2.

 

[MaximusMurkimus]

5 hours ago, Stryker115 said:

It could still work, albeit in a comical sitcom like situation with crazy shenanigans and everything

Just hope that it doesn't have a laugh track, because that would kill me

If there now isn't a joke ending with all three of them back in Brotherly Paradise I'm gonna be disappointed.

I think there's less of Saya in Noel/Mu/Nu/Lambda than people think, especially if the Master Unit's conscience actually jumped ship inside her. Anything we've seen is likely just residual, especially when Lambda/Nu never showed explicit signs that they see Ragna as a brother, just a general fondness brought on by Nu's programming. I do think a soul merge is how Ragna is ultimately gonna save the clones, however. That way the real Saya can retain the good memories of the clones while being free of the murderous tendencies of Nu that are built in her. 

Honestly, since the whole "haha you just stabbed me and can't save me anymore" was Ragna's Nightmare Memory in Act 2, it would be surprising if he didn't end up rescuing Saya at the very least; that act was meant to show people what they didn't want to happen (namely their dream being denied by Noel), so maybe Ragna will be extra careful when they face off for the last time, especially since he's learned to restrain himself.

@Kenji Harima Where did you hear Izanami say that her body is breaking down? Most I've seen is her resistance after fighting Naoto and Terumi going "well don't overdo it" in CP.

[Fenris]

Geez, some of you guys sure take up a lot of unnecessary room in your posts. lol Three sentences shouldn't fill a space the size of one of Ogiga's novels.

On topic, though: I have a gut feeling that the only characters that are not going to make it (i.e., die) are the ones that should never have existed to begin with. Hakumen, Nu, Lambda, and a couple others come to mind. The information thus far suggests the BB world might very well start over from scratch at least one last time by the end of the plot. And chances are it's going to return to a time or a "reality" in which the aforesaid characters never existed, which would be akin to their "dying for good" in a sense. Although, given Mori's track record, you never know what ass-pulls are in store. Hell, the current reality might even be "Madoka-fied" in such a way that characters like Nu and Lambda are 'reborn' as normal human girls with normal lives. We shall see.

[TD]

They can always do a Timeline Intervention(TM)... For... You know... Relevant plot twists

 

Lol

should change that to Intervention from the Will of God

[Yoshirocks92]

I hope that Noel gets her happy ending considering what she's going though especially with this game, she deceives to at least get a happy ending.