Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[JRH]

Sourenga, I am interested in watching the remaining arcade modes can you tell me the password please?

[Zedar90]

21 minutes ago, Sourenga said:

I personally thought it was a nice touch how in Nine's ending she talked about Nox Nyctores but the actual text referred to them as "godslayers". It was a nice indirect explanation to the origin of their Japanese name "Arch Enemy".
I don't really remember Phase novels all that well... Was this true Takemikazuchi ever explained or teased them?

Well, kind of. Take-mikazuchi was extremely powerful during the dark war, it would likely be able to defeat the Black Beast if it hit it with a direct hit.
But it was too slow, so Nine took a part of it's core to create the other Noxs while weaker isn't as slow and big.
So with most of it's core gone, it should be a lot weaker then when it was at it's prime.
During the dark war, it was a giant and during the other BlazBlue it was inside a coffin looking like it was connected to life support.

[BlazGearRegalia]

4 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

Oh, so The Origin wasn't the original prime field, but the Original Toucher(?, took contact) (原初の接触者).

Otherwise it was right, Izanami came there to take back Noel to her coffin, that she was the first to contact the god.

 

So that's what's really going on? Well, all that's left is:

 

- Saving the world and bringing it to a state of peace [although knowing how the BB world works, the world can't rest until it's rid of the Black Beast]

- Tying up loose ends with this cluster fuck of a story/tales of the cast

- Settling the score between Ragna and Jin, and thus determining if Ragna lives or dies [at this point, I won't be surprised if they kill him]

 

And all to come sometime in fall!

[Yoshirocks92]

2 minutes ago, BlazGearRegalia said:

 

So that's what's really going on? Well, all that's left is:

 

- Saving the world and bringing it to a state of peace [although knowing how the BB world works, the world can't rest until it's rid of the Black Beast]

- Tying up loose ends with this cluster fuck of a story/tales of the cast

- Settling the score between Ragna and Jin, and thus determining if Ragna lives or dies [at this point, I won't be surprised if they kill him]

 

And all to come sometime in fall!

Yep but I'm glad that we were able to see Mu's Act III Ending for ourselves and now we can finally put what's going on with Noel and Mu to rest but knowing me the Console Version's going to have more to this. 

[Toxin45]

Dude Ragna dying is way too predictable and besides the actual black beast is still inside the boundary. The story mode is center on ragna.

[NoelChan101]

So we might see one last fight between Ragna and Jin I wonder if tears will be shed.

[terizent]

Can someone explain to me what Terumi was talking about in Hazama's Act III ending when everything went grey for a moment? Why does he start talking about the Boundary between dreams and reality? Is that what Hazama is supposed to be/named after? What is the Imaginary Number Monster? Is that supposed to mean Hazama too? 

[Zedar90]

18 minutes ago, terizent said:

Can someone explain to me what Terumi was talking about in Hazama's Act III ending when everything went grey for a moment? Why does he start talking about the Boundary between dreams and reality? Is that what Hazama is supposed to be/named after? What is the Imaginary Number Monster? Is that supposed to mean Hazama too? 

I don't think anyone can explain, it's supposed to be a cryptic monologue with a deep meaning. I would guess one will understand it after playing the console story of BBCF, but it's likely something to do with what Hazama is.

[Ogiga99]

So was that cube Terumi took from Clavis's coffin Hihiirokane, as in the sword? Nine said he was looking for it but why would it be a cube when it was supposed to be a katana in its sealed form and what does it have to do with him getting a vessel? Unless of course, he wants to use it to directly attack Hakumen's spirit so he can take control of the Susano'o Unit.

[Zedar90]

25 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

So was that cube Terumi took from Clavis's coffin Hihiirokane, as in the sword? Nine said he was looking for it but why would it be a cube when it was supposed to be a katana in its sealed form and what does it have to do with him getting a vessel? Unless of course, he wants to use it to directly attack Hakumen's spirit so he can take control of the Susano'o Unit.

Sounded like it, which confused me when I heard it. If it's the sword, why isn't it a sword anymore? Why is it in Clavis coffin since Jubei used it after Calvis death?
Why was Terumi afraid of it in CP if it was in such a hard to reach place? Why is the name written in Katakana now instead of with it's Kanji's? Who made it into a cube, and why?

I could somehow get that he wanted to make a vessel with Hihiirokane metal(since the murakumo is made out of it) but with the sword itself, what?
As best, I guess it's as you said, he want to get rid of Hakumen's spirit with it.

[churchblue]

I really want know who Terumi's identity really is?

[BlazGearRegalia]

12 hours ago, Toxin45 said:

Dude Ragna dying is way too predictable and besides the actual black beast is still inside the boundary. The story mode is center on ragna.

 

Predictable, yes, however, it's not like the story itself provides any alternative. From the get go, the story does focus on our Raggy Boy, however, CF is to be the final game for him as the focus, and in CP's ending, Rachel tells Tsubaki that he must be killed as he will become a Black Beast if he dies a natural death, and even if he didn't have the Black Beast, there's still the fact that he's the most dangerous criminal in the world, and he came to accept that fact. I'm pretty sure the only sentence they will give him is an execution.

 

 

Believe me, after all I've seen, I'm pretty convinced that Ragna is the type of character that was doomed to die from the start, and as unfair as I find it that he's always getting the short end of the stick, again, the story doesn't really provide any alternative, so until the console version gets released, I'm sticking to this.

 

 

12 hours ago, NoelChan101 said:

So we might see one last fight between Ragna and Jin I wonder if tears will be shed.

 

If you're talking about the characters, a little hard to tell. Ragna loves Jin to an extent, however, doesn't seem to really care much, while Jin, for the majority of the story, is obsessed with killing Ragna and his tone of voice in CF makes him sound like he has no remorse. Noel [if she lives to see it] will [DEFINITELY] cry if Ragna loses and Nu will either slaughter Jin, kill herself to join Ragna, or simply cry as well. Anyone else, I'm unsure. In terms of us fans, oh DEFINITELY.

 

 

7 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

So was that cube Terumi took from Clavis's coffin Hihiirokane, as in the sword? Nine said he was looking for it but why would it be a cube when it was supposed to be a katana in its sealed form and what does it have to do with him getting a vessel? Unless of course, he wants to use it to directly attack Hakumen's spirit so he can take control of the Susano'o Unit.

 

Hold the phone, that cube is a sword!? Yup, it makes sense what he's trying to do now...

 

 

 

2 hours ago, churchblue said:

I really want know who Terumi's identity really is?

 

You and me both. I'm crossing my fingers for an extra story for Terumi's origins or a spin-off if they need to go that far. But for now, we can only wait.

[Toxin45]

Well ragna is going to Es for something.

[Volt]

This barely makes any sense. At his current state, Terumi would get roflstomped by Hakumen even with Hihiirokane. If he really wanted a vessel, he could've busted it out against Hazama and just ditch him later after beating Hakumen. My guess is that he wants a specific vessel, possibly even a new one like him. (The game wouldn't be able to handle 3 playable versions of "Terumi", so it would have to be identical or a way to sustain his form.)

It's also weird that Hazama would want to hijack Terumi. Unless somehow that managed to stabilize his existence, there's no reason for Hazama to want to switch to a body that barely has any time left and is in no fighting condition, so it would need time to rest. There's a scheme here, but I can't figure it out. What would Hihiirokane do to help them at this situation?

Celica's ending is also pretty interesting. I think Nine will wind up helping her.

 

But what really freaked me out was Nu's ending. Why did she fought Mu as if she was Noel with even Ragna recognizing her as Noel? Nu should've noticed something off about Mu and she found her because Noel "acknowledged/observed" Nu fighting with Rachel. Could it be foreshadowing?

[Skull567890]

So Mu is protecting Noel, who's protecting the Gate by cutting her off, and said gate is protected by Es? So the only two people who can open it are fused Noel and Ragna, yet Es is only supposed to allow Ragna in by the Azure's will?

[Volt]

9 minutes ago, Skull567890 said:

So Mu is protecting Noel, who's protecting the Gate by cutting her off, and said gate is protected by Es? So the only two people who can open it are fused Noel and Ragna, yet Es is only supposed to allow Ragna in by the Azure's will?

Yeah. That's pretty much it.

[heavymetalmixer]

What is this "Takaya Susanoo?"

[Volt]

1 minute ago, heavymetalmixer said:

What is this "Takaya Susanoo?"

Probably the Dark Susano'o. Looks like Terumi liked his time as the Susano'o wielder, since he references it a bunch of times, like his astral or when he activates his Azure Grimoire as Hazama.

[Luminos564]

2 hours ago, heavymetalmixer said:

What is this "Takaya Susanoo?"

2 hours ago, Volt said:

Probably the Dark Susano'o. Looks like Terumi liked his time as the Susano'o wielder, since he references it a bunch of times, like his astral or when he activates his Azure Grimoire as Hazama.

It's nothing much really. Takehaya Susanoo-no-Mikoto (which is what Terumi refers to himself during the Astral) is just an alternative name given to the storm god Susanoo for Shinto myth. He's also not the only one. Izanagi is sometimes referred to as Izanagi-no-mikoto as was Izanami. Amaterasu for reference is also known as Ohirume-no-michi-no-kami so take from that what you will.

 

[Volt]

49 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

It's nothing much really. Takehaya Susanoo-no-Mikoto (which is what Terumi refers to himself during the Astral) is just an alternative name given to the storm god Susanoo for Shinto myth. He's also not the only one. Izanagi is sometimes referred to as Izanagi-no-mikoto as was Izanami. Amaterasu for reference is also known as Ohirume-no-michi-no-kami so take from that what you will.

 

It's just the Japanese shoving Shinto mythology up our noses again like they do in every game that has a plot and is not made by Nintendo. Nothing to see here, let's move along.

 

Now that we have all the Act 3 endings (or at least their summaries) how about we try to do a timeline of the events so far? Just to get a flamewar some discussion going until the Console release.

[Yoshirocks92]

4 minutes ago, Volt said:

It's just the Japanese shoving Shinto mythology up our noses again like they do in every game that has a plot and is not made by Nintendo. Nothing to see here, let's move along.

 

Now that we have all the Act 3 endings (or at least their summaries) how about we try to do a timeline of the events so far? Just to get a flamewar some discussion going until the Console release.

That's like a good idea considering that I would like to know something about what's going on with Noel and Mu-12 before the console release.

[Volt]

21 minutes ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

That's like a good idea considering that I would like to know something about what's going on with Noel and Mu-12 before the console release.

Well, we kinda know what's going on, Noel got rekt by a Black Beast, saw a gate when she was swallowed, stopped doing drugs, and kicked Mu out with her memories.

The catch is that apparently we got an "Origin" who at this point may or may not be the OPFD and Noel is her vessel who hijacked Mu. So at this point we don't know personality-wise who is "The Origin", Noel, Mu or CF Noel. Sometimes Mu talks like Noel, sometimes Noel talk like Noel, sometimes Mu talk different than Noel, sometimes Noel talk like "The Origin", sometimes repetition gets annoying, sometimes Noel talks like Mu and in the end Tsubaki and Izayoi pop up and we go full Terumi.

 

At least the Act 3 parts involving Tsubaki are kinda coherent, Acts 1 and 2 we're just crazy. Izayoi in Act 1: "Izayoi helped me to restore my memories." Then Tsubaki shows up in Act 2 like "Jin Nii-sama, what's Seigi?" 

[Toxin45]

But we know that Noel does not have the prime field just the toucher appanetly so we don't know now that Noel is using the prime field's soul at this point.

[Ogiga99]

8 hours ago, Volt said:

This barely makes any sense. At his current state, Terumi would get roflstomped by Hakumen even with Hihiirokane. If he really wanted a vessel, he could've busted it out against Hazama and just ditch him later after beating Hakumen. My guess is that he wants a specific vessel, possibly even a new one like him. (The game wouldn't be able to handle 3 playable versions of "Terumi", so it would have to be identical or a way to sustain his form.)

It's also weird that Hazama would want to hijack Terumi. Unless somehow that managed to stabilize his existence, there's no reason for Hazama to want to switch to a body that barely has any time left and is in no fighting condition, so it would need time to rest. There's a scheme here, but I can't figure it out. What would Hihiirokane do to help them at this situation?

Celica's ending is also pretty interesting. I think Nine will wind up helping her.

 

But what really freaked me out was Nu's ending. Why did she fought Mu as if she was Noel with even Ragna recognizing her as Noel? Nu should've noticed something off about Mu and she found her because Noel "acknowledged/observed" Nu fighting with Rachel. Could it be foreshadowing?

Would Hihiirokane even work against Hazama like that? Hazama is a vessel with a soul bound to its body similar to a normal human whereas Terumi and Hakumen are unique existances. Hihiirokane can cut both body and soul, so attacking Hazama would more likely kill him than just destroy his soul (unlike the Susano'o Unit which is much more durable). Also, Terumi wouldn't be able to use Hazama's body if he destroyed his soul. Terumi's vessels (of the Kazuma/Hazama variety) require the body to have a soul that is very similar to Terumi's in order to complete the fusion and considering Relius doesn't just make soulless bodies for Teurmi, that part is essential. As for how he could beat Hakumen, you forget that Terumi's power skyrockets when he is near a Cauldron. In his Arcade mode, despite how weak he is, Terumi was able to defeat Jin while near a Cauldron so I could see him fighting evenly against Hakumen in that situation. There is only one playable Terumi. Hazama does not count as a version of Terumi since they are two different people. The only true case of two forms of the same person left is Tsubaki/Izayoi. They could very easily have a new form for Terumi if they so wish. Regardless, Terumi has shown interest in the Susano'o Unit and he calls the cube Hihiirokane and says it will let him obtain a vessel so clearly the soul-cutting blade is necessary for it and it can't be a new body. Still, the fact that Terumi has Hihiirokane seems to disprove my theory that Hihiirokane is the "that" Jubei says he and Rachel need to retrieve in her Act 3 ending.

Considering Terumi getting a vessel would stabilize his existence, whatever Hazama intends to do should do the same. It's unclear what he even means by "take over" and "use" but yes, it is weird. At the very least, Terumi doesn't seem to have Hihiirokane in this ending since he doesn't have the power to stop Hazama.

Mu is still Noel in a way since she's a part of her. The fact that people are trying to kill her means she also needs to die for the whole fulfilling your desires thing. Characters like Ragna, Makoto, Tsubaki and Kagura recognizing her as Noel is because she is still the person they care about, Godslayer powers embodied or not. For Nu, it could simply be because she is absolutely bonkers.

 

10 hours ago, BlazGearRegalia said:

Predictable, yes, however, it's not like the story itself provides any alternative. From the get go, the story does focus on our Raggy Boy, however, CF is to be the final game for him as the focus, and in CP's ending, Rachel tells Tsubaki that he must be killed as he will become a Black Beast if he dies a natural death, and even if he didn't have the Black Beast, there's still the fact that he's the most dangerous criminal in the world, and he came to accept that fact. I'm pretty sure the only sentence they will give him is an execution.

Believe me, after all I've seen, I'm pretty convinced that Ragna is the type of character that was doomed to die from the start, and as unfair as I find it that he's always getting the short end of the stick, again, the story doesn't really provide any alternative, so until the console version gets released, I'm sticking to this.

If you're talking about the characters, a little hard to tell. Ragna loves Jin to an extent, however, doesn't seem to really care much, while Jin, for the majority of the story, is obsessed with killing Ragna and his tone of voice in CF makes him sound like he has no remorse. Noel [if she lives to see it] will [DEFINITELY] cry if Ragna loses and Nu will either slaughter Jin, kill herself to join Ragna, or simply cry as well. Anyone else, I'm unsure. In terms of us fans, oh DEFINITELY. 

BlazBlue has always been big on the whole "screw destiny" trope. There have been like a dozen supposedly impossible situations that someone is able to solve. Turning Mu back into Noel was supposed to be impossible, but Ragna did it. It should have been impossible for Es to return after becoming the Embryo, but Watashi found a way. We all thought there was no way for Terumi to survive Time Killer, but he succeeded. It is supposed to be impossible to prevent Doomsday without killing Noel and creating a new world, but Amane has an alternative. No matter how many death flags he has, there is at least some kind of convoluted insane way for Ragna to live. I'm not saying he won't die, but it is not set in stone.

Ragna does care for Jin, he just isn't very outwardly emotional in the same way Jin is. In CS he does say Jin should be the one to finally kill him, so there is that. You're also forgetting about Rachel (assuming she is still alive by this point). We've already seen her cry when Ragna died in his CS Bad Ending and that would certainly happen if the death was permanent, and may or may not be followed by her having Tsubaki kill her like she asked.

 

8 hours ago, Skull567890 said:

So Mu is protecting Noel, who's protecting the Gate by cutting her off, and said gate is protected by Es? So the only two people who can open it are fused Noel and Ragna, yet Es is only supposed to allow Ragna in by the Azure's will?

I don't know if it's explicitly been said that Ragna can open the gate, just that Es is supposed to bring him to it. Granted, that implies he is supposed to open it but nothing is confirmed. As for why those two can open it, assuming Ragna can, it is probably because they are the only characters who can access the power of the True Azure.

 

@Zedar90: Regarding "The Origin" from Mu's ending, was this ending the only time we believed it was mentioned that Noel had the soul of the OPFD? Basically, was that also said somewhere else or is any mention of the OPFD a mistranslation?

 

This has also brought about a whole new slew of random thoughts.

We now know for sure, if we didn't already, that Story Mode will cover events during the same time frame as Arcade Mode. In Kagura's Act 3, Ragna mentions being captured by him twice with Kagura saying the second time wasn't his fault because of the Embryo. This is clearly the scene that we saw in the Famitsu preview.

What exactly did Ragna plan to do to Lambda in her Act 3? In order to deny everyone's desires, he says he needs to make her "forget a little" and activates the Azure Grimoire. What exactly did he mean by making her "forget?" He wasn't going to kill her so what is he doing with the Grimoire?

Valkenhayn's Act 3 might shed some light on the question of whether Clavis was an Onlooker. Apparently the world only needs one Onlooker, and Amane became one to replace Rachel. Assuming Clavis's power loss was the result of being an Onlooker and intervening, then perhaps Rachel's birth had her take his place as the Onlooker, causing him to lose the status and the power that comes with it. If he stopped being an Onlooker by the time he died, he could be revived during the Dark War since he would no longer be outside of the time loop. I still don't think he is one (and this still doesn't say he was referencing Ragna when he told Jin that "listen to your heart" line) but this might be an explanation without a massive plot hole.

 

1 hour ago, Volt said:

Now that we have all the Act 3 endings (or at least their summaries) how about we try to do a timeline of the events so far? Just to get a flamewar some discussion going until the Console release.

This might work for some modes but despite having no (currently explained) time reset via Phenomenon Intervention or other methods, Act 3 has the most blatan contradictions between various stories of all of CF. Who obtains what Nox keeps changing (both Nu and Arakune obtain Rettenjou and Arakune flat out eats Bang in Azrael's story), Tsubaki learns that Hakumen is Jin in both Izayoi and Hakumen's endings through very different circumstances, Terumi getting Hihiirokane is pretty incompatible with him submitting to letting Hazama use him, Ragna dramatically appears before Mu twice (to save her from Nu and to save Tao from her) and Noel is forced to remember why she purged Mu in both her and Mu's endings among others. That being said there do seem to a few that we can place relative to others .

• Ragna's is one of if not the first one. In pretty much all the others he has already come to the conclusion that he must deny all of the Entitled's wishes.
• Litchi's takes place after Carl and Bang's, as well as any other ones she appears in (can't remember which) since Arakune erases her memories of him at the end of hers.
• Rachel's is one of the last, or at least after all of the other ones she appears in, since she exhausts all of her strength and then meets with Jubei.
• Valkenhayn's takes place after Rachel's, or at least his fight with Ragna comes after her fight with Ragna, since Ragna says he already met with Rachel.
• Nine's is after Carl's since he has already in Relius Jr. mode in her Arcade.
• Platinum's is one of the last (after at least Jin's, Nine's and Terumi's off the top of my head) since Trinity is given a new body and no longer inhabits Jin.

These are the only ones I can think of and a lot of these probably won't really apply once they give a reset button explanation to clear up the contradictions. The only one that is truly consistent is Ragna's being early because of his role in everyone else's routes but I'm sure that will be retold in Story Mode anyway.

[ripostebarrier]

1 hour ago, Ogiga99 said:

What exactly did Ragna plan to do to Lambda in her Act 3? In order to deny everyone's desires, he says he needs to make her "forget a little" and activates the Azure Grimoire. What exactly did he mean by making her "forget?" He wasn't going to kill her so what is he doing with the Grimoire?

Azure Grimoire=Former Black Beast

Arakune=Failed Black Beast (compressed Seither)

 

I remembers that

Going into Boundary (high Seither concnegtration) like Ragna in CP results in memory loss.

Arakune in CS ated Litchi's memories in CS.

Pretty sure Terumi is Seither based since Celica is cancer to him and he ate Jin's memories in pre-CT after the Tenjo murder.

Appears that Black Beast or Seither based creatures "eat" or affect memories mainly due to being a bunch of Seither.

 

Maybe Ragna using this inate ability of Seither to only "eat" the desires of all Entitled?

Azure Grimoire is suppose to be just highly concentrated mass of Seither.

Either that or he need to give everyone real bad concussions so they forget their Entitled goals.