Skye Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I know dive cancels, but forget about it online. The things I practice online, are things that I can capitalize well into offline, dive cancels online--I--I wonder how some people actually do it. I admit I dive a bit too much in this match, but they were mostly combo attempts that screwed up, because I crossed myself up. I'm learning to get some setups in real time going, once I get those, I can learn to capitalize on the other things you mentioned. Thanks for the feedback, but no one's really 'good' online, even I'm a bit better offline, I've fought him a lot, he knows his combos, but--yeah. He fished for the CH JB a bit too much, but maybe that's the scrub in me, I don't know Litchi... But I'm clearly trying to improve. :<
tolore Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I don't really know a whole lot about online play, I have like 60 matches under my belt from when I first got the game, but I haven't really played since. I just look at all match videos as if they were offline. IMO if I can't use my offline strategies then the online might as well be worthless, although I have live comp so I have room to be picky(I know others aren't quite as lucky ).
Magnet Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 damn. nice J.D into 6C setup at the beginning of the video. Yeah, Litchi is one of the few charicters that makes arakune have to be very careful about jumping around carelessly from my experience. J.C and Tsubame both can really quickly pluck you out of the air, and a J.C counterhit leads to significant pain. Not bad, though. definitely better then earlier ones. try not to throw as much out of tick throw setups though: broken throws = lost curses. I saw at the end of the 1st round that the litchi failed to break a purple throw, which offline is very, very breakable, and could have been bad as Litchi has the advanatage as long as she isn't cursed (again, in my opinion). Still hoping I can get a few offline rounds against my friend (who plays haku-men) soon...
tolore Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 The real scary part about litchi though is her corner pressure, which I basically saw none of. It's pretty hard to block her mix up hidden behind that staff, and she can keep you there pretty well, you tried to roll out that one time in there, but she only poked you and didn't get nearly as much damage off it as she should have.
Skye Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 I don't really know a whole lot about online play, I have like 60 matches under my belt from when I first got the game, but I haven't really played since. I just look at all match videos as if they were offline. IMO if I can't use my offline strategies then the online might as well be worthless, although I have live comp so I have room to be picky(I know others aren't quite as lucky ). Well, online is laggy, sometimes it's seamless, but there are times, where you notice hard. I play online to practice my combos and setups in real time, it's a good experience. Online makes for great offline practice with the right mindset. damn. nice J.D into 6C setup at the beginning of the video. Yeah, Litchi is one of the few charicters that makes arakune have to be very careful about jumping around carelessly from my experience. J.C and Tsubame both can really quickly pluck you out of the air, and a J.C counterhit leads to significant pain. Not bad, though. definitely better then earlier ones. try not to throw as much out of tick throw setups though: broken throws = lost curses. I saw at the end of the 1st round that the litchi failed to break a purple throw, which offline is very, very breakable, and could have been bad as Litchi has the advanatage as long as she isn't cursed (again, in my opinion). Still hoping I can get a few offline rounds against my friend (who plays haku-men) soon... I know. >.< I'm very, very ashamed of the tick grab. That was blind instinct. The real scary part about litchi though is her corner pressure, which I basically saw none of. It's pretty hard to block her mix up hidden behind that staff, and she can keep you there pretty well, you tried to roll out that one time in there, but she only poked you and didn't get nearly as much damage off it as she should have. Well, I heard that Litchi's corner pressure is in a nutshell one big tech trap, it depends on how you tech and if she can read where you tech to continue the pressure, maybe I guessed right, and by that, my opponent guessed wrong.
Abstract Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Skye, stop teleporting so much, and learn your curse pressure. You missed many FANTASTIC opportunities to set up curse fuzzies. Also, space those aerials and clouds much better. You should have been eaten alive the way you were just throwing stuff out right next to the Litchi like that. You did get hit like that several times, and the only thing that saved was the Litchi failing to capitalize on it. Also, it seems like you are just throwing bugs out. You really need to learn to use barrier buffering. It lets you buffer bugs right in people's face and opens up many very nasty things. Mainly scary pressure setups, and it's really the thing that forces people to not move. When people dash at you and are cursed, it is like Christmas. Only with damage. It is a damage Christmas, where Arakune doesn't get damaged at all and the opponent gets 5k.
tolore Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 When people dash at you and are cursed, it is like Christmas. Only with damage. It is a damage Christmas, where Arakune doesn't get damaged at all and the opponent gets 5k. I feel like this should be some sort of childrens book
Skye Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Skye, stop teleporting so much, and learn your curse pressure. You missed many FANTASTIC opportunities to set up curse fuzzies. Man you're brutal, you say that as if I'm not trying to grasp things.
tolore Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 you shouldn't take things to personally Skye, we're all here to help eachother learn and get better. Some of us are just too lazy to make our advice sound all nice and flowery.
Skye Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 I'm not taking anything personally. I never said I thought he hated me or disliked me. He was just awfully frank in addressing issues that I already knew to work on. Except the teleport thing, specifically, why shouldn't I teleport, it's been working out for me so far (on and offline, nitpickers) and is a life saver in the Nu match up.
rafiki Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 he cant read your mind, the man spits what he sees, specifically good advice on barrier buffering bees
tolore Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 The problem with teleporting(ESPECIALLY against nu) is that it's punishable, the reason you aren't getting punished badly for it is that they are punishing the wrong way. You use the teleport forward->teleport back tele a lot, and they try and hammer you hard for it, miss and then you're safe. what they SHOULD do is jab hit confirm, if they throw out a jab or 2 and you teleport away and they miss most characters can chase you down and get you in the recovery. So if you teleport there's a few things that can happen if they do the jabs. 1. you get jabbed and combo'd when you teleport next to them 2. they miss the jab when you go next to them and they chase you down and get you when you pop up again 3. they miss the jab and don't manage to chase you down Lets analyze the telports that happened in that match. teleport 1, about 40 seconds in: you do the fake teleport forward when she is airdashing with an attack face first into your cloud. Gain from teleporting nothing. Gain you would have had from just blocking the air attack: a chance for a combo or more time to set up positioning after she got hit by cloud instead of recovering from teleport. Risk taken: Had she done anything NOT air dashing into your cloud she could have punched you when you appeared next to her, or done any of her long range normals to catch you out the other end and probably got a combo. teleport 2, about 1 minute in: you do a back dash followed by a fake forward dash. She jumps after you to follow the back dash, then jumps again to follow the forward dash and runs face first into a bug. This was her being dumb, the exact same thing would have happened had you not faked the teleport and just straight up dashed away from her again. Heck it might even have happened had you stood there doing nothing, and even if you stood there doing nothing she would still have to block blogs and then you can pressure her. As with all teleports, you take the risk that had she not instantly chased you down she could have done basically whatever she wanted to to you while you were recovering, as you had already thrown all your bugs out while teleporting in a way where they wouldn't have really covered you. teleports 3 and 4 at about 1 20: This mainly worked because she threw out a jab that had no chance of hitting where you teleported too and then threw out a move that actually would hit you. Had she thrown out the longer ranged move first she would have likely recovered in time to hit you when you popped back to your original position(which was RIGHT next to her). The second one was alright, it caused the staff to fall down far away from you which was nice, but it again has the problem where it was a risk, if she hadn't chased after your teleport(which she didn't necessarily need to since the staff was about to drop there), she would have been able to punish you, and for that risk you gained basically nothing(in fact she was still right on top of you after the teleport and you got hit almost immediately after it). teleport 5 at about 1 36: This one was almost good, if you had placed c bug properly it could have been a nice cross up(one of the few actual good use of the fake out teleports). But instead none of your bugs even forced her to block, which meant she could easily have hit you when you came out the other end OR punished when you reappeared. So basically you took another risk without gaining anything(if you were TRYING to do a cross up with bugs you get some credit for the attempt, if you weren't than that was a horrible teleport). teleport 6 at about 2 04: you did another back dash fake forward dash. The only reason you got away with this one is again because your opponent is basically doing things at random. when you back dashed for whatever reason she jumped straight up and through out a high in the air poke horizontally even though you were on the ground. Then you fake teleport RIGHT next to her, this leads to the options above where if she jabbed and payed attention to what happened(instead of hopping around for no apparent reason) your BEST case is going back to neutral. this time it's HIGH risk for a best case of no reward. teleport 7, 8, and 9 at about 2 30- 2 40: Air to ground teleports. The first couple teleports do basically nothing, one baits an anti air that wouldn't have hit you anyway and doesn't punish it in any way shape or form, the second one did basically nothing, the third one got you hit. Litchi is always gonna kick the staff low like that since it'll come back to her and get you on the way back that way she covers the ground while she goes up to get you(she has to go up because the cloud is down low). You teleport straight into her stick The stick being there was basically inevitable, but let's just pretend she didn't throw the stick out right there, what do you gain out of those teleports? Again I'd say basically nothing, if she goes up to get you you'll just not be there, she doesn't lose anything like that(if anything she GAINS position/mobility advantage), if she attacks low she gets you, if she does nothing then you get slightly closer? diagonal down air dashes with block would have gotten you towards her faster and safer. teleport 10 at 3 26: great use of teleport, that's exactly what it's supposed to be used for, you got a pseudo cross up that even if it hadn't worked would have been protected by bugs and allowed for pressure. It was still kind of risky because of her dragon punch, and also would have been a bad idea had she not stood up into your cloud immediately before hand. I believe that's it. Basically all of those were a risk with a very low chance for a not very good reward, high risk + low reward and bad odds is not at ALL worth it. as for nu, here's a quote from copper dabbit, probably the most experienced arakune vs. nu fighter in america Yes, because every time I try a teleport I get hit by v-13's 2C. Beats all of arakune's teleports on startup and recovery, including if she wiffs one and does another.
Matt Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Also, it seems like you are just throwing bugs out. You really need to learn to use barrier buffering. It lets you buffer bugs right in people's face and opens up many very nasty things. Mainly scary pressure setups, and it's really the thing that forces people to not move. :8/: Did anyone read my post in the combo discussion thread?!I've been watching some Fumo and Souji vids lately and I noticed an amazing frame trap that they have been consistently using in their matches. The frame trap starts from a 3rd of a screen away and what they did was release a C bug, j2A, then released B bug (an A bug at the end is optional). If the j2A, C bug or B bug connects, the move can combo into a j5A and then whatever you want to do from there. The frame trap can be seen at 3:41 on this video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8251674. One more note is that it can also be started off of an A bug, which is seen in the example I gave.It is a tight enough nit frame trap that you can't DP out of it, so the only character that can escape from it is Hakumen with 5D. It goes into a 5.7k+ combo with recurse at the beginning and it works from up to half a screen away. Again :8/:. Edit: Here is the one time that I have seen it fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M-99zpsNEU @3:10 This is a really good frame trap mmkay, so let's all start using it mmkay. The usual combo that happens if the trap connects is: j5a>j5a>j5c>j5d>2 C loops>recurse for about 5.5-5.7k damage I believe. Also, Skye don't fight with people who are better than you, have more tourney experience and especially more offline experience than you. They are only trying to help you, so why don't you just shut up and listen.
Skye Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Also, Skye don't fight with people who are better than you, have more tourney experience and especially more offline experience than you. They are only trying to help you, so why don't you just shut up and listen. Who the hell's fighting with them, troll? I asked for advice and I'm adding inquiry to understand the advice. Blindly taking advice isn't my thing, I'd like to know why they say "don't do this", and even should I fight with them, if my experience leads me in a different direction, so be it. So why don't you shut up and let me learn.
Matt Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Alright, I am so sorry Skye. I really am. Edit: so this post doesn't become a waste of space, here are some Souji(I am 99% sure) videos. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8375841 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8376584 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8376940 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8342761 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8250418 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8250526 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8234518 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8234378 Sorry if any of these have been posted before. Also, Skye, it is just frustrating to come here thinking there might be videos when it is just a bunch of posts about what you need to do to improve and then you asking questions or arguing with them adding even more spam. Hell it would just be better if you and everyone else just post their self improvement vids in the Arakune general thread or the beginner guide or something or maybe even start a new self-improvement thread.
Abstract Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 I feel like this should be some sort of childrens book You have inspired me. SUCCESS:
Skye Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 as for nu, here's a quote from copper dabbit, probably the most experienced arakune vs. nu fighter in america The idea to use a variant of teleports and legit jumps, I got from one vid of そうじ (or is it ソウジ?) facing Nu, and a lot he did this, and it makes for a well done approach or at the very least a tactic to keep Nu moving. Since watching that video, I've started having much easier times with Nu. I believe that Arakune is one of the characters who are really good at training their opponents, through a variety of methods. I am serious about incorporating teleports into my playstyle, although not entirely necessary at times, can be good for approaching, crossups, baiting and bug buffering--although barrier buffering is good, it's really hard. I'll have to pick my moments. After that, I've been a big Souji fan.
tolore Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 the time's i've seen the actual hiragana it's been ソウジ, but I don't pay a lot of attention. As for the nu thing, it's the same thing I was talking about earlier with the 6A->6B, you can train your opponent to do things, but if one options beats both ways you have of doing it there's no reason not to do that. If I'm understanding what copper dabbit said correctly when you teleport then she can just 2C at you, and even if she guessed wrong and the 2C whiffs, she recovers and can then do ANOTHER 2c and still get you. I personally have not had very good experience messing with teleports against Nu's that are decent. IMO the only legit ways to use teleports are for mix up while they are cursed or cloud positioning, but I will also admit I have not experimented as much with them as I could. In my experience though teleports are not all that useful. As a random note I watched a random one of the vids matt just posted(great job linking all those vids for us, it'd be nice if you had made the first post instead of the guy who no longer edits it), and every single one of Souji's teleports was horribly punished. I know that's not necessarily indicative of their uselessness, but it does show how risky they really are. Random Edit from way in the future: Abstract, you truly are a king among men
Skye Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 ソウジ is katakana, but I couldn't remember which alphabet was used. Not all of Souji's teleports were punished heavily, I've watch the first 4 of the vids Matt posted (kudos), in fact quite a few of them were good for getting close, some of them were punished, true, but not all of them. Nu's 2C is really good, I understand that a teleport will get punished with that even if done by guess, but it's really a case of your opponent guessing right, what if it was a legit double jump, at the very least Arakune can barrier. Plus he doesn't have to be in her face, I've seen a teleport used to get a 6D or 2D out of Nu, which gave enough time for a long range combo, which blew my mind. With proper adaptation, your opponent wouldn't be able to properly guess a scenario where they should do a test 2C. I guess it depends on how the player uses it, I'm still experimenting with it, and in my wake of experimentation, I got a bit carried away, I admit, sometimes it's too fun to teleport. In all seriousness, I'm simply experiencing a learning curve, and I'm having fun with the experience.
Matt Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Best story I have ever read. :thumbu::thumbu::thumbu:
dehumanizer Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 :thumbu::thumbu::thumbu: Indeed, story was so epic, it made me tear a little =.( Poor a bug and his suicidal tendencies. If only someone would give him a christmas present.
Bommlinger Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 could anyone be so kind and give me the various japanese spellings of Hima, so I can search for his vids on Nico? I've got all Fumo and Souji vids from Youtube and Nico, got all the Hima vid's from youtube and the various gamechariot updates, but there still might be some vids on Nico that can't be found anywhere else. I would appreciate it.
Skye Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 If "Hima" is kanji, then I can't help you, Hima, under than context can literally be hundreds of variants of kanji. However, hiragana-- ひま And katakana is ---- ヒマ Try those. Also, try the name of the game in your search, ブレイブル (BlazBlue) {bureiburu}.
Matt Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 Here are some Hima videos (and others)! http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8372211 THIS VIDEO IS EPIC! http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7969534 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7969138 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7826510 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7826158 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7826368 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7298534 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7263137 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7260047 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7260010 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7259968 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7826036 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7259856 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7253422 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7253597 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7253221 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7252983 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7241312 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6845712 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6845623 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6845403 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6787791 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6787995 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6606597 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6605797 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6605576 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6605205 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/1231135164 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/1230129258 Also, the top videos are newer than the bottom ones, exact dates i don't know. There aren't any ones earlier than December though. Every single video has Hima in it. If anyone knows how to cut WMV's or a program that can do that please let me know because I have some videos that I got from nicovideo that I wanted to put onto youtube, but they are too long and I want to cut them so that I can get them onto youtube. Edit: Here is my youtube account- http://www.youtube.com/user/MattCielo it has some epic arakune videos. I would update it more often, but most of the videos on nicovideo are too long .
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