General Gameplay Questions Thread - POST YOUR GAMEPLAY QUESTIONS HERE

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

To a degree, some characters might want to block to be able to pull a DAA. I use this a lot with Potemkin, because he can get damage off his DAA. Sure, I'd rather just get a clean hit or throw, but some times it's just easier to block > DAA.

This is a lot moreso in HnK though, which has some really dumb shit related to DAA's.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Shrug most people here haven't played good Japanese players. You do NOT want to be the one blocking when you play against them. Fact is that most of us will not play against people with offense that solid. What you see in vids is tame.

reaVer, maybe sitting there blocking while looking for a gap works against the people you play, and maybe the people you play are good... but they're not the Japanese.

In like 5-10 games or so that I played against Ogawa's Ky and Eddie, I spent most of those matches in one of two states- blockstun or hitstun. There were no safe gaps to escape. He is really good at taking away escape points as quickly as they come. And me being in blockstun meant he got to drain all my tension and then start chipping me and making me have to take risks to try to escape which he would counter-hit into a full guardbar combo a lot of times (Ky) or go for strike/grab mixups that are really really hard to spot (Eddie). Hell I blocked a ton of fly mixups and stuff but it didn't matter.

And the any round I won was a round where I kept him from putting me in blockstun, knocked him over, and then ran with the knockdown into a bunch of setups until he died.

The problem in the US (Europe too, most likely) is that for most of us, our offense isn't as good as we think it is and so we think our defense is better than it really is.

[HmR.kS]

WTF you fought Ogawa? And won him a few rounds too?

[zer0kage]

WTF you fought Ogawa? And won him a few rounds too?

It's quite a similar case against Axel's Eddie but then it maybe my fault but I felt that my attempts to break out of Eddie's hammering while I'm blocking tends to be bait for mixups.

[CrimsonDisaster]

WTF you fought Ogawa? And won him a few rounds too?

Yeah don't get too excited I won like 2 rounds out of like 15 3/5 games lol.

[HmR.kS]

I bet I can't even touch Ogawa so winning even a round against him is something to be proud of!

[CrimsonDisaster]

I bet I can't even touch Ogawa so winning even a round against him is something to be proud of!

Don't sell yourself short, I didn't think I could take a round off Ogawa before I played him... of course I didn't know it was Ogawa till after my first match, maybe that contributed to it.

Teyah:

That's interesting. Though I guess it doesn't quite make up for her hitbox inflating immediately when she's hit lol.

[Alcyon One]

The problem in the US (Europe too, most likely) is that for most of us, our offense isn't as good as we think it is and so we think our defense is better than it really is.

that's a interesting way of putting it. probably very true as well.

[HmR.kS]

Do you mean you played better or worse after you knew it was Ogawa? I would probably pissed in my pants. =D

[Alcyon One]

or get a boner, if he was wearing a cat costume.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Do you mean you played better or worse after you knew it was Ogawa? I would probably pissed in my pants. =D

I did worse =(

Alcyon One:

He dresses pretty normally most of the time, or so I've gathered... though I guess he is all business when it comes to tournaments.

[Alcyon One]

!!!

you got me excited for nothin D:

[Fenrir]

If you jump install a special that auto jump installs, do you get more than one jump? I've heard of this happening with Jam but no one else.

[Manta]

What happens if both players attempt a normal throw on the same frame?

[Shoto]

Both HS come out (or 6HS, depending on the direction you were holding down, or a weaker move if you used offensive option select)

[Master Chibi]

No problem Mr. Otaku #548319009

I'm #1, thank you very much.

:china:

[4r5]

What happens if both players attempt a normal throw on the same frame?

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63036&highlight=throw#post63036

[reaVer]

Shrug most people here haven't played good Japanese players. You do NOT want to be the one blocking when you play against them. Fact is that most of us will not play against people with offense that solid. What you see in vids is tame.

reaVer, maybe sitting there blocking while looking for a gap works against the people you play, and maybe the people you play are good... but they're not the Japanese.

In like 5-10 games or so that I played against Ogawa's Ky and Eddie, I spent most of those matches in one of two states- blockstun or hitstun. There were no safe gaps to escape. He is really good at taking away escape points as quickly as they come. And me being in blockstun meant he got to drain all my tension and then start chipping me and making me have to take risks to try to escape which he would counter-hit into a full guardbar combo a lot of times (Ky) or go for strike/grab mixups that are really really hard to spot (Eddie). Hell I blocked a ton of fly mixups and stuff but it didn't matter.

And the any round I won was a round where I kept him from putting me in blockstun, knocked him over, and then ran with the knockdown into a bunch of setups until he died.

The problem in the US (Europe too, most likely) is that for most of us, our offense isn't as good as we think it is and so we think our defense is better than it really is.

Noon wants to block:P I only wanna block when I'm about to eat hits:P But I do not think a player is required to play the game in such a way he doesn't have to block.It malforms the player's playstyle pretty badly in my opinion. In my view it's better to start blocking and blocking properly and only after that start searching for gaps. I'll believe you about Ogawa, but you have to understand that every character has gaps that can be made or are there. Thing is, these gaps are often triggered by an impact guard, FD or a combination of both. This is also what I think people should learn to do properly, this is probably hard at first, but afterwards it ends up being a lot more usefull then just trying to avoid blocking.

[CrimsonDisaster]

My point is that you probably aren't playing people who have good enough of an offense for what I'm saying to really make sense.

The Japanese players I played had really solid defense but it was BECAUSE everybody's offense was so good. They are so good at leaving really small gaps that are just big enough for you to give them a huge counter-hit combo, and really good about using those gaps to reset pressure... and they vary their strings a lot to keep you on your toes.

They just approach offense differently than anybody else I've ever played or seen, and their defense is obviously catered to that style- matches were all about momentum, execution, setting up your offense and rolling with it, baiting, proper poking and zoning, etc. Even HOS players were playing at mid-range a lot. Nobody could afford to commit to too much to try to force an attack because if they moved at the wrong time, they could have just given up the entire match.

I think they take a very technical approach to the game. They just seem to get how to apply frame data and ranges and such to create some sick frame traps and lockdowns and such. They almost NEVER did a mixup that didn't give them another mixup or pressure opportunity on block, and they certainly never cut their pressure short on block if they could keep it going safely.

Ex. a lot of Ky players like to do S Stun Edge in blockstrings outside the corner, but the Ky players I played would generally do Stun Dipper FRC to get back in and continue pressure to push their opponent into the corner, and then it's ggpo 'cuz they will frame trap you all day long until you flinch and then you die. No mixup out of the Stun Dipper FRC, no silly tricks, they would just reset their frame trap and if you didn't take the bait then you'd hit the corner with flashing bar eventually.

[reaVer]

HOS midrange would be a bit odd, as 70% of his normals don't work at that range:S Well, I really can't say you're wrong about what they do or anything, but even in matchvids I see players block out entire strings. HOS vs Shadow on chariot is one example...

And for me the flashy thing is the least of my concerns, if I get my gap that bar will decrease eventually:P Yes they can do all those funky 100% combos and shit, but if you're not defending or eating hits to prevent that, you end up dying anyways, just a bit slower. Putting myself in a situation where my defense will be poor and the likely of eating CH is high is something I simply refuse.

[CrimsonDisaster]

...shrug just go to Japan and play them. You'll see why good defense is to prevent offense, not wait it out. You'll see why the best defense is a safe offense.

Again- you can sit there and block all you want and they'll just keep going. A lot of the Tokyo players I faced didn't ever go for a throw, didn't ever even pretend they were going to throw. They just kept mixing up safe pressure strings until someone would try to escape, at which point they would kill them.

Now if you holding down-back for 40 seconds before you die the moment your stick leaves that position is a good gameplan, by all means continue doing so. I'm going to keep finding ways to avoid that situation, thank you very much.

Again, you simply haven't played against them. Vids aren't going to teach you jack if you never experience things for yourself. And I'm telling you that Japanese vids are very deceiving because honestly what we are not at the level of the people in most of the vids we see. So really until you play against people at that level, you're not going to get what I'm saying.

So yeah. Blocking is very important, but it's far more important to avoid situations that require blocking. You don't get it because nobody you play is going to win 70% of the matches where they get you into pressure first, but that's because your competition has weak pressure compared to the Japanese.

[reaVer]

Well, without doubt, you know I'd love to go to Japan, seriously, but money isn't growing on trees unfortunatly:( Actually the throw thingie, I saw it earlier and asked BillyKane about it, he said that the japanese are way more experienced when it comes to throw games then US or EU, they can play it in such a way that your throw fails and they gain the advantage. By this it means throwing is even far more risky to do over there then over here. Meaning that they actually have no choice but to keep mixing you up with normals.

But again, there are gaps, even small at start, they will turn out bigger once you started using moves like vipers and other invincible moves. And then they need to be just as carefull with stringing you up as you have to be to get out of that string.

[HmR.kS]

Wow, CrimsonDisaster. That's a whole lot of useful information there. Thanks a lot. Learnt quite a bit. Please continue posting. =D

[Fenrir]

Can I get a quick list of every move in Slash that auto jump-installs?

[CrimsonDisaster]

From EChang's changelist-

Sol: 236K, 214K

Chipp: 623S

Faust: 214S

Jam: 6H, 623K (as a followup and charged followup) and I believe 236P as well but I forgot the conditions for that.

Anji: 236S/H > P

Venom: 623K

I-No: dash

Robot Ky: 623H

Next time just search yourself kthx