Shoto

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4006 There is a paragraph about dealing with reversals in the first post of that thread. Experiment with that stuff. As sad as it is, Sols VV has so good reach it's next to impossible to reliably space the late meaty 3P so that you will be out of reach for VV once it retracts (and it won't clash since VV has so many invincibility frames). Basically try to bait him but have a backup plan if he just sits there on wakeup. Once he takes your baits for guaranteed and just starts moving / poking after standing up, use meaties again, but try to trick him into thinking you will expect a VV anyway: Move in in the last possible moment for a meaty 5K / 2K to connect; use long range stuff etc. After he learned that you use a 3P / 5K as a bait or even whiff a 3P / 5K so early, that you will still have enough time to go on with a meaty or pretty much near meaty 5K etc. (but if he has good reactions and steady nerves he won't fall for that) btw.: Should you ever realize, that he does anticipate VVs once he thinks he recognizes a setup and believes you will attack anyway (like an early whiffed 5K or something) just block and punish a few times. He's just guessing and “punishing” you for having a much too simple pattern. Then especially if you have him cornered or near cornered (so that he can't go back) you can always stay in about max range of 2P (so that you can use all your long range tools) and just see how he moves. This is an advantageous situation for your poke game and some players have problems dealing with that, especially those who tend to play reckless. You don't have to do oki every time.

http://uk.youtube.com/user/HardEdgeOfficial These matchvids can also be found on the official HardEdge chanel^^. (look for the HnK playlist) If you like it: subscribe .

Well yeah checked it.. you guys were right obviously.. meaties can be thrown Can't belive I've been ignorant to that for such a long time

@GerVer Actually right now I have some more time and I even could manage to be out playing the last weekend :P Till then I haven't really played for a few months, so I didn't had any new input on Axl and there already exists a knowledge base and as DW doing a great job here as a mod anyway^^. I still don't agree on all his tactics but well this is Guilty Gear where no two Axls are alike and he has proven that his Axl is really strong (actually even more than I have). Furthermore we are pretty much of the same opinion when it comes down to the core basics^^. .. but I usually check the boards even if I don't post, so if you want to talk to me personally you can either address the post directly to me or if you really want to make sure write me a PN^^. ..I guess you wanted some input on some of the points you and DW were talking about: - I don't like kokku as a standalone move (same old same old XD). The angle doesn't really fit in with the other air to ground / air to air options Axl has and in many matchups it feels like opening myself up. I agree that the risk of being hit or pressured is not too big and the rewards is quite high (that is if you hit low enough), but that doesn't really mean a thing if the succes rate isn't good, especially as every try costs you 25% tension and end up in a positon where there is nothing for you to do then another kokku or to flee.. I don't see how you could get into an advantage situation from a blocked an FRCed kokku (but well I haven't spent too many thought on this to be honest :P) - There are some matchups in which I choose KD over damage. Against those charas that can outmove you (like Chipp) and against those that have no reliable reversals or other defensive measures (like Eddie). In the later case part of the question certainly is how good you think that your pressure / oki is compared to your zoning skills. Anyhow I guess the only combo where there really is a choice is Axls midscreen throw combo. - KDs can go the other way, but I guess we all can agree that the standing character is in the better position than the one lying down . Even if you don't go for a rushdown attempt you can play less aggressive and bait stuff or position yourself in a comfortable distance for poking and then decide if you go for a long range meaty or a slightly not meaty long range move or if you simply see how your opponent moves after he gets up. After a KD the opponent is forced to react to you (even a VV is a reaction to an expected or seen meaty). This opens them up for all kind of mindgames. From my experience even if you are not close when they get up, they never just stand up and go on normally as long as it looks as if your planing something. Either they block for a split second, or they jump / airdash, do a backdash etc. short note about staying out of throw range on wakeup (has been mentioned somewhere in the discussion): If you are confident with your meaties you can actually run up next to them to give them the urge to try to throw you on wakeup. A meaty can't be thrown^^ (solid players will usually suppress this urge as long as they see that you have the time to do a meaty move, but the option is there). Just keep in mind that you open yourself up for reversals.

Impressive, unusual and creative!! Love it!

one last hint: If you look closely you will notice 2 white circles expanding from the throwing character (looks similar to the golden SlashBack circle but in white). These show you the two throw-tech timings.

If you're speaking of AC and Eddie keep in mind that he has to be at a certain distance for his FB Drill + shadow –D- UB. If you could block it chances are good he was just too far away for the –D- to connect in time (only the first two hits of the FB Drill hit low, so it has to connect during those two). Wait for the sound of the second FB Drill hit, then immediately switch to high block. If his timing / spacing was off, you’ll be able to block it. Since it is often hard to figure out when this will happen I would say forget about this UB for further investigation :P. (btw.: You can create that situation to some extend if you FD the right hits (i.e. don’t block the second shadow –K- attack as it actually sucks you further in). Still you have to guess if he goes for the UB before he does and his timing / spacing still has to be slightly off.) back to topic: I've seen it once back in #R where ATG blocked the Eddie UB trough pure luck.. there even should be a video of that match, but again it was back in #R. Still I‘d guess the same mechanics should apply. So theoretically the only "real unblockables" should be setups that actually involves real unblockable moves, like Pots slidehead trap or Axls meaty rashousen setup; but practically it simply doesn’t matter.

Here I have the list form the General Information thread from the matchup forums for the 6H into 5K, 2D rensen link.. but I guess I include it in the combo thread as well. 1. 6H as combo starter Against about half of the cast it is possible to combo from a 6H into 5K, 2D, rensen even without a CH as long as it is done from the right distance and hits them crouching. The distance in which it is possible to combo is actually between the max range for 5K to connect and doing it right next to the opponent. Here’s a list of possible setups to help you get a feeling for the for the right distance (end them with 6H): 5H / 3P / S© / 5K, S© / 2K, S© / 5K, 3P / 5K, 5H / S©, 5H Except against those characters marked with * (or **) the best way to do them is out of a dash or run, starting the pattern right next to the character (so the best way to incorporate that into your gameplay is either after a FRCed Rensen or after a KD with the initial attack being meaty. Works on: ABA* Anji Bridget Baiken*: only 3P / 5H / 5K, 3P (harder then the rest) / 5K, 5H Chipp Eddie Faust** (against him you can even do: 5K, S©, 5H and S(f), 5H) INO May*: only 5H / 3P (quite risky) / 5K, 5H Millia Venom* Zappa * If you do a single hit setup too close to the character 6H will cross him up without even hitting them. ** Since Faust has such a broad hitbox while crouching 6H will cross him up, but will still hit. Nevertheless if this happens you won’t be able to combo. Does not work on: Axl, Dizzy*, Jam, Johnny, Ky*, Order SOL, Potemkin, Robo-Ky*, Slayer, SOL, Testament * If you do 6H too close it will cross them up without hitting them. (Nevertheless this is nothing you can rely on too much as 6H is easily blocked on reaction) Apart from that the only noteworthy (= needs some practice) link is the 3P (CH) into 5K, 5P, 2S, SJC, j.H, j.D, 623H.. This one is in the combo tutorial vid as well and the (not too) hard part is the hitconfirm not the link .

Here are my thoughts / experiences / suggestions on the topic: - If it’s a normal throw try to counter throw / throw break. You hold the advantage framewise if he wants to tick throw you (but of course the problem is figuring out his throw attempt). - Benten is seldom an option against any tick setups as you seldom have enough time to first figure out what he’s doing and then input the 623 and as most ticks don’t leave you in blockstun long enough to reliably buffer that move. - If the gap is big enough you can go for 5K / 2K into combo / pressure, but this is only good for „oh he’s blocking all my mixup lets run up and throw him “things and you have to develop an eye for such stuff. - Against „tick command throws“ jump.. you can’t counterthrow as they usually have a higher throw range and you won’t get a throw tech. Poking isn’t an option as you don’t have a normal fast enough (5K is 6frames which means the 5 Frames throw inv. after blockstun ended won’t suffice). Furthermore you just can hold up once you expect it which means there is no motion input that will cost you extra time (and with 4 frames of startup it is Axls fastest option against throws). If you’re good with 1frame jumps do that, but in the heat of battle I often simply do a normal jump and in many cases this is fast enough. - If the tick throw is done out of pressure and I know that a backdash will secure me against most of his other options , I buffer a backdash while I’m in blockstun so that I BD as early as possible after that ends. But this is valid only in very specific situations and actually involves some „educated guessing“. - I experimented with using BDs on reaction against throw attempts, especially against command throw setups but I nearly always failed.. even back, neutral, back takes time.. if you can’t buffer it forget it.

Hm.. actually the midscreen stuff may be considered his bnb :P.. I know the FRC point of his rensen is quite hard to learn at first, but after you achieved that you have acces to his most important combos and rushdown options. But if you ment gatling combos (all that follows is slightly adjusted stuff from the AC threads): a.) 5K, 2D, rensen b.) 2K, 2D, rensen c.) 5K, S©, 2D, rensen d.) 2K, S©, 2D, rensen e.) 3P, 2D, rensen* f.) (5K,) 3P, 2H, 6H If your opponent is cornered and you don't have the tension for an FRC, you can tap 2 after the rensen for extra damage * the trick is to tap 3P for a split second, then immediately start charging back. Counterhit Stuff: - 6H (CH*), K, 2D, rensen Follow up with an rensen FRC combo if you have the tension. If you RC the 6H the instant it hits you will even be able to combo without getting the CH (but sadly it can't be hitconfirmed). - After a whiffed rensen: tap 8 (CH on airborne opponent), run up / wait, S©, JC, j.K, DJC,j.H, j.D, j.H,623H - 6H (CH on airborne opponent), run up, S©, JC, j.K, DJC, j.H, j.D,623H This CH won’t happen to often. 6H has a terrible priority, so you’re more likely to be hit out in this situation. - 623S (CH), 5P, rensen Basic Dust Combo - 5D, j.D, jD, j.K, j.S, j.H, j.D, 623H Simply hold up to cancel out the recovery of the first two j.D, then simply go from gatling to gatling. - Oh and if you succed with the 623P counter and you’re near to the corner you can run up and follow up with with a b-loop starting with 5K, S©, TK Bomber.. If you’re not near enough fort hat just go for a rensen. For pressure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfII_YDoUDQ This is pretty basic but may be just the stuff you need if youre completely new: For #R you can use all the stuff that does not need the 2hit chains. - No 2P pressure (since the pushback is usually to big), exept 2P, rensen if you already have the charge ready - The j.S stuff doesn’t work as well as well as the feint stuff. - From the short oki part the only thing you can use are the 3P stuff and the 5K bait Btw.: Are you playing online with the PC version or why are you interessted in #R stuff?

@ Kobayashi Fixed the combo .. and well at least benten was much better with full body invincibilty and 1 frame less startup (and a tension free follow up combo on CH).. it wasn't as good as VV but still was one of the better uppercuts in the game..

hm.. ok I have to admit I'm not sure what it looks like if they tech towards you.. either no one ever tried or it didn't occur to me as a bad situation.. I will see that I try that out in practice with another player and see what could happen^^.

kokugeki has a very unreliably hitbox for air to air combat and and even for some air to ground manouvers, while 6P covers the front of Axl and even gets active before it has fully extended.. not to mention that koku makes you drop dead considering momentum while j.6P still keeps it. So the moves are quite diffrent and do not apply to the same situations.

It doesn’t cost meter and there is no other move that can realy subsitute for it. While I agree that it doesn’t get used too much as it actually needs some sort of long range air to air sitution (or a situations where it makes sense to air dash or jump using j.6P to catch them air to air before the get in your anti air range, which is just as rare) this move has it’s situational uses.

Raoh has good range, sick priority does insane damage and raises the guard bar like no other character. He is not meant to be fair. I agree that Axl does slightly better against him than maybe the whole rest of the cast but that doesn’t mean he in any way owns Raoh . Once Zappa gets to Raoh it’s playinu as safe as possible while not handing the momentom of the match to the Zappa player. Actually you should try to avoid letting Zappa get to Raoh, so don’t slowplay this matchup too much but don’t be too agressive to get hit by stuff that gives Zappa souls.

I costs meter, has no good range (if FRCed) and doesn’t get you too good frame advantage if blocked (not to mention the pushback is quite high). That doesn’t mean you can’t use it, just that there are usually better options available and I don't see how it could work as some sort of "suprise tactic" as for that it's just to straight forward.

Been a while.. hm, let me see if I can remember the basic stuff.. Midscreen: - any combo into rensen FRC, run up, S©, JC, j,K, DJC, j.H, J.D, 623H - throw, run up, 5K, S©, JC, j.K, DJC, j.H, j.D, 623H against very light charas (or was it Jam only??) it was something like: - throw, run up, S© j.6P, 623H. B-loops were like: - rensen FRC, S©*, TK Bomber, 5K, S©, TK Bomber - throw, S©*, TK Bomber, S©, TK Bomber, 5K, S©, TK Bomber * against some charas you have to or at least should be able to start with 5K, S©. IIRC against light charas like May, Baiken, Jam, Bridget you can start your B Loop after a throw with 6K.. (or was that Slash only?) Against normal and heavy charas the trick is to catch them as high as possible and for lighter charas to catch them as low as possible (so they won’t be able to recover). IIRC you can get in one more bomber against them (but I’m not sure if after a rensen FRC or after throw or both) but you may not use 5K ort the pushback will be too big. TK Bomber could be done 9(6)23H since it had a minum height requirement. But maybe other TK inputs work as well. That was the one I was useing.. oh and B-Loops were harder to do in #R and in Slash than in AC. We once had a list but it got killed during the first "auto delete incident".. so I guess you have to try out some stuff.. btw.: His reversal (623S) was really good in that game..

Well after a jump in you'll get always thrown (as long as your opponent awaits it) if you land in front of a character which is not in blockstun. So I guess there has to be some sort of landing recovery. EDIT: hm.. but you can block.. so well, it can't be a "real" recovery. Help me save that mystery. .. but if you burst and land there doesn't seem to be any recovery.. or at least an even smaller one.. so in this situation the one who is quicker wins.

Thanks for all the feedback.. I’ve been pretty busy with law school the last weeks (and still are for the next two weeks). After that I will go on working on part 2 (and fix part 1 and 2 as 2 has a part where the sound effects are still in and 3 has some typos :P). Hope part 2 gets more interesting, as 1 and 3 are pretty basic or at least pretty straightforward (but well such stuff is easy to capture and to structure so naturally I started with it^^). To be honest the whole project was never meant to be too big or too serious as it was actually me trying out my new capture device / software; but if it gets some players interested in Axl this is a good bonus^^. Btw.: Thanks for putting it on youtube^^. (Hint [or shameless advertising]: You can find more stuff coverd in written form at the start of every stickied thread of the Axl forum :P)

Axls Axl Bomber.. no joke, try it out.

The only normal Axl has that has some use in rushes and is JCable is his S© (or am I missing something?). So how can you rush her down with JConly moves?

This song is from 1983. In that time Hard Rock and Metal were quite close and Dio is sometimes even refered to as a Hard Rock Band. Power metal was a few steps away which is said to have evolved mid to late 80ies. (btw.: I’m not a too great fan of power metal myself but actually it is "true metal" I can’t take seriously by any means :P) I like Dio for what it is^^ (even that I know just a handfull of songs)

Style points for using Dio^^. I say it fits perfectly with the pace of the combos. I really like the vid

This is what I got so far and since this whole video stuff is new to me I desperately need feedback^^. I have this saved as a project so changing stuff is no big deal^^. (and well yeah you native speakers could check for grammar and PM me :P) Part I (basic rushdown) http://rapidshare.com/files/88118387/LSpartI.avi.html Part II ("advanced mixup / pressure") (in the making) Part III (combos) http://rapidshare.com/files/88118934/LSpartIII.avi.html Part IV (not even planed, probably movement / poke game) Keep in mind that partI is really basic.. Part II will have all the opponent escaping what can I do and the "mindgame" stuff.. part one just shows the basic frame advantage situations and basic mixup without the stuff you can do once the oppoent either tries to break free / counter or is afraid to do anything^^. Part III is combos, pretty straightforward^^. btw.: for those reading the Axl forums there will be nothing new in it.. (who would have guessed)

@ DW Watched through the vids once more now that I'm a bit fresher.. On second sight (even that there were still the great moments) there actually are some things I find "debateable" (well yeah in a way this means I'm taking back some of my "praises", but I still find that these were the best of your recorded matches and that your Axl is very well^^) So I guess that means I have to explain myself and need to do an in depth analysis.. I'll see that I get to that tomorow.. of course you may prove me wrong^^ btw.: I desperately need to get some of my matches recorded so that you can tear them apart.. just complaining without showing is kinda weak ..