NumeroGaijin Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 Something I have noticed is that after Gadget Finger I did a late 720 to catch the back dash from him but the strange thing that happened was that after the Ragna back dashed he got away clean even though I held down the button and he then proceeded to jump and countered me as I let go of the 720. The whole thing was weird because he was already magnetized and everything.
DoomieJ Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 you probably just did it too late, he jumped before you got the 720 out most likely.
Maho Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 That's simply because it's not guaranteed against him, Ragna's backdash has 5 not airborne frames at the end, and the pull you can get here isn't enough to catch him from that distance if he jumps asap. Actually i would add that in this matchup, gadget isn't that good overall.
ryokoalways Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 Gadget is useless if Ragna has 50% meter because dp rc beats all options after gadget.
Maho Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 And Ragna gains heat so fast it's not even funny, actually it's possible to backdash his 623C and punish with 360B/720 but it's not something reliable, it has 18 active frames against 19 invincible frames for your backdash (if the numbers didn't change from CT). I got this a few times in versus when i still was in "gadget everytime i can" mode at the begining of CS, but i realised quickly that it's not worth the risk, a 1 frame timing not even taking in account that he can delay (or just miss) his reversal timing, it's just way too inconsistent.
NumeroGaijin Posted March 1, 2010 Posted March 1, 2010 Overall yes gadget isn't all that useful in this fight. This is one fight where your goal is to finish it ASAP! Hack off as much damage as possible because you don't want him pulling over his amazing comebacks. Gadget finger is very useful but only when Ragna has about 35% of his life left because it forces the play to really have to guess and for both sides it is critical. And in this situation you could honest set up a burst 720 if you are 1) or if he 2) Dps you. Yes there is risk involved but for Tager that risk more than justifies the means. This is only viable though if you are big risk taker like me.
kingkman2 Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 having trouble with getting out of ragna corner pressure b,c,d,hf no follow up on block can some one give mee tips
Heavy_Mental Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 IB the 5C and 360A/720 him out of the 5D. If you can't IB 360/720 well (you should learn to though, only way you're going to get anywhere with Tager, especially against the uppertier), then simple IB the Hell's Fang and punish with whatever you can. Stupidly enough, I have problems with Ragnas' ending their blockstring with Hell's Fang when I really shouldn't. In my experience most Ragnas try to jump out to avoid the 360/720. Collider them if they do that. IB 5A->5B->3C->Gadget Finger is guaranteed and I've managed to it them with 2B after an IB on occasion. Not sure about 360/720 though. EDIT:Some other general tips against Ragna. This matchup still has the same dynamic as it did in CT, except this time around Raga does superior damage and has a much better risk/reward ratio. The only reliable way out of Ragna's pressure is to IB. Always watch out for mixups, especially Gauntlet Hades, which can lead to 4K plus a potential reset as well as the usual corner and 50 meter. Tager can no longer kill Ragna in 2-3 good combos and some resets/tick-throws and burst punish so he has to play a lot more carefully, maintain momentum, and make a lot less mistakes. Pressuring Ragna can be tricky. Tager has to respect Inferno Divider. Extended and predictable blockstrings become vulnerable to IB Inferno Divider. Trying to tag on an extra 5D/2D after a 5C will result in a Inferno Divider punish if your opponent is smart and has the presence of mind. Careless oki will make you eat a Divider. Even if you do manage to bait it out, Ragna almost always has the meter to make it safe. IB 2C or Collider might work if they go for air-to-ground pressure but I've never tried it myself. Ragna is also one of the few characters that Tager can reliably AA provided you space yourself correctly. Incorrect spacing and/or poor timing will result in a big fat CH crouching combo for Ragna, which is very, very ugly for you. Most important part of this matchup is not letting Ragna build momentum. If he does, then you could be dead pretty soon. IB like you're Galileo, look for openings, create openings, bait those DPs to make Ragna burn the meter, bait those bursts, land those resets, tick throws, and Yomi Colliders, make every bit of damage count, and stay the fuck away from Gadget Finger.
A.X.I.S. Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 IMO do not gadget finger without 50 heat, that shit is not viable since you can't throw out 5A to safely bait ID. the match up is relatively the same except ragna want's to come in more cautious since AA collider works well on him if he doesn't space himself proper. (amazing I know!) and for fucks sake don't get combo'd! he is gonna gain 50 heat and do dumb shit. few notes: IB 5C and 360 depending on the spacing. IB hells fang and watch for the follow up, you can't punish if he goes straight into it. IB GH and punish proper. IB j.B/J.C/J.D when he lands he will fall into a 360/720 shit is not as hard as you think. the match up is the same pretty much, the 50 heat to mix up shouldn't be too hard since you can still IB punish his shit while he's doing it.
DxClow Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Having trouble playing mind games against Ragna Especially the good ones. I decide to block 623C on his wakeup, but if he has 50 heat he RCs and goes into j.C > 5B > Mixup and pretty much gets like 20 heat back.... and if he doesn't i can 360B him. Blocking divider works about twice before good Ragnas start baiting my blocks (starting MindGame Wars) and just start another Mixup... in the end, they just get me into mixups, and eventually force an overhead or low attack through. Backdash does not work great unless he is at the beginning of his mixup (5B / 5C). All I face in CS Ranks are Ragnas :/ Taskete Kudasai!! I don't know if this will help but I do notice Ragnas almost always dash cancel 5D, even on block. I was wondering if 720 or 360B / 360A could get him?
Maho Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 You can get a guaranteed 360B or 720 on 5D dash cancel, but only if you IB the hit before the dash, you'll get it also on normal block if he tries to 5D dash > poke.
Heroic_Legacy Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Yeah, you can 360B them for dash canceling 5D. But they can dash cancel into Inferno Divider if they smell of yomi and old spice. For all those telling you to IB 360A the 5C, it's a good idea. But 5C is special cancelable and you might eat Gauntlet Hades. And if that happens, 4k+ you in corner with stagger oki. Fun. If he hits you into a combo and he picks you up for the abortion punch, try to do quick tech 720. Really throws a screw into their 5B. Basically go like 21478963214A7896C Or something like that. And Ragna will second guess the next time he has dangerous oki in the corner.
A.X.I.S. Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 if ragna has 50 heat and you know he loves to ID RC on wake up then block it buffer a 720 hold down at 2 and watch his arm move press the C button and watch the show unfold. the worst time ragna can RC a ID is in the air, you can actually backdash 360B the j.C and in some cases AA 2A him. remember ragna's mix up isn't that good and his pokes are easy to IB. oh and if ragna dash cancels 5D then be sure to IB 5D and throw out a 5A, he will get hit before he can finish the dash cancel, in other words he doesn't get a chance to ID.
Heroic_Legacy Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Ragna can bait your backdash on the way down from the RC. Ragna's mixup is really good in the corner after abortion punch. Then again if you IB 5D and try to punish, what if he cancels to Gauntlet Hades instead of dash canceling for more pressure? MINDGAMES.
DxClow Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Ragna can bait your backdash on the way down from the RC. Ragna's mixup is really good in the corner after abortion punch. Then again if you IB 5D and try to punish, what if he cancels to Gauntlet Hades instead of dash canceling for more pressure? MINDGAMES. ........... so can we do anything against an adaptable Ragna? T.T
Koopa_Klawz Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 this match up right now is so fucking annoying. it looks like once he got his pressure on you it's hard to keep him off. also how good are tager's anti airs against Ragna's J.C?
A.X.I.S. Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 any point after ragna RC's IB the next hit unless its a overhead, face it your american, your probably gonna get hit. tech the abortion punch and block low, react accordingly, or if you wanna risk it and you know he's gonna run in 720 out of the tech. btw match is 6-4 in ragna's favor for a reason, just wait for him and react accordingly. never gadget finger him without 50 heat to use a gimmick, or you will die.
Heavy_Mental Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 this match up right now is so fucking annoying. it looks like once he got his pressure on you it's hard to keep him off. also how good are tager's anti airs against Ragna's J.C? 2A and 2C can both beat it if spaced and time correctly.
DxClow Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 face it your american, your probably gonna get hit. But once we get hit there goes almost half of our life and if he gets us into corner like that then he can stagger and has options again I don't like getting hit T.T Btw im Canadian :P But Axis you are rite about the 720 he sometimes just instant dashes off 5D towards me and i get him tho. Problem with that is I have never seen a good Ragna use abortion punch while tager is blocking, not even when they are in the middle of a combo and it's hitting tager. I find that they mostly rather reset safely by jumpingC, in which in this case you can try to collider. This will only work a few times before its mindgames all over again. Just gonna have to play it risky! :P
Heavy_Mental Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I think you might have gotten abortion punch (22C) confused with Ragna's Hell's Fang (214A). And yes, Ragnas like to jump out after ending blockstrings in 214A. You can either hope for them to jump so you can Collider them or you can IB the Hell's Fang and punish.
mAc Chaos Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Couldn't you 2C him after he rapids his ID and tries to hit you on the way down?
A.X.I.S. Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 you guys are getting your dicks tied in a not for reals. I'll tell you this: IB hells fang and punish with a 360B before he finishes his recovery, this will not work if he decides to do the follow up immediately. backdash GH if you see it and collect again another 360B, he won't do the second hit and even if he does IB it and punish accordingly. IB BE and poke him...shit is -7 and its easy to react to, in fact ask yourself why are you blocking BE and why is he expecting it to hit you. bait ID and if he does not have 50 meter by some miracle then 6A if he is magnetized for your easy 4-5k combo or 360B him for being a retard. in other words if he is trying to use special moves in his pressure/mix up or being predictable with wake up shit then you have every right to punish him for it, besides GH is a risk, a risk that can be reaction back dashed, blocked, and punished. lastly keep yourself out of ID range and magnetized, when he is magnetized be picky with your pokes he will ride the momentum and fuck you for it. edit: no mac he can't but we can XYH it and 720 him for it.
mAc Chaos Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Do you have time to throw out AC and snag him out of the peak of ID once he rapids?
A.X.I.S. Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 he rapids before that...in fact a good ragna would rapid while still on the ground to apply pressure. the problem is when he rapids he doesn't go to peak height more like the halfway mark, so 2C will likely get us CH'd and 2A is likely to hit him if he isn't using something like j.B...not sure if 2A will beat 2A. I do know that some ragna's will IAD back...something that can be punished with spark if you have it.
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