[CS1] Iron Tager vs. Ragna

[DxClow]

I think you might have gotten abortion punch (22C) confused with Ragna's Hell's Fang (214A).

And yes, Ragnas like to jump out after ending blockstrings in 214A. You can either hope for them to jump so you can Collider them or you can IB the Hell's Fang and punish.

Yea :/ I thought that was the only move ragna had wif a punch :P new to forums need to try and get wif them :o

I just noticed my Ragna game becoming even worse after reading the tips.... Im on a losing streak T.T

Is there anything I can possibly do if he tries for a run in 5B? if I backdash he goes to many different resets that will most likely me. Can i block a followup after a backdash?

[Leo7]

Is there anything I can possibly do if he tries for a run in 5B? if I backdash he goes to many different resets that will most likely me. Can i block a followup after a backdash?

Use Tager's 5B in footsies when fighting Ragna. If the Ragna does run in pressure, Tager's 5B can actually stuff Ragna's normals. If you see Ragna run in, throw out a 5B just before he reaches you, and if your 5B is active before Ragna's moves start up, it'll stuff their attack and you'll get a CH (and you can then combo into A-Sledge/5C/3C/etc.). I've used it to stuff dash in 5B/5C/2C/2B not sure about anything else.

Edit: Another match-up tidbit.

If you instant block Ragna's 2B, there's a 6+ frame gap in between 2B and any of his possible gatlings (2C/5C/3C = 6 frame gap and overhead 6b = 18 frame gap). This is a free 360B or a free Normal grab (has to be forward grab, not back grab). Normal grab has more range and is easier to input so I would say rely on that. Only thing you need to worry about is if he cancels the 2B into Inferno Divider (which would require massive yomi honestly).

[komradekraig]

he rapids before that...in fact a good ragna would rapid while still on the ground to apply pressure.

the problem is when he rapids he doesn't go to peak height more like the halfway mark, so 2C will likely get us CH'd and 2A is likely to hit him if he isn't using something like j.B...not sure if 2A will beat 2A.

I do know that some ragna's will IAD back...something that can be punished with spark if you have it.

i've played a lot of matches against a really solid ragna with good pressure and mixup and our metagame has advanced through all options all the way back to square one so i'm pretty familiar with a lot of the shit we have to deal with against rawrgna. if he RCs the ID at a certain height he can throw out a j.C that will CH an attempt to 2C it on our part. I haven't tested 2A against it but i will the next time i play him. in general, block low by default because 3C and 6C lead to way more damage for ragna than the 6B overhead. If ragna does a 6C (starts low for one hit then launches with the second) you can IB punish inbetween and afterwords. However, the move is jump cancellable. If ragna cancels straight up it's a free 2C, as long as he doesn't double jump above it, for, most likely, a FC. if he jumps straight up OR backwards you can catch him with AC but this isn't always guaranteed, based on timing and whether or not he dashes back so i only throw this out when he's magnetized. Keep in mind, if you guess wrong and whiff you will eat a CH combo for more damage.

One trick i've found that works amazingly is bursting through ID in combos, as long as you stay on the ground and he does the follow up you won't move and he won't be affected by the burst, but you recover before he does for a free 360B/720 on whatever side he'll land on. It's sorta like bursting through litchi's DP in CT.

I use 5A a lot to stuff run in attempts and 5C will hit ragna from waaay further away than you think. I'll often open the round with 5C for a counter to catch him trying to escape or a 4D to see if i can start right off with a wallbounce combo into GF.

[Leo7]

try punishing 6c by making it whiff completely.

the most common/obvious blockstring that some ragna's do is 2c > 6c. if you ib the 2c, you can jump forward and make the 6c whiff completely and it's a free combo. if the player likes doing 5c > 6c, same thing.

edit: i also know for a fact that if you block inferno divider on the ground, and if he rapids after the 2nd hit and immediately does a j.c, you can't anti-air it with 2a/5a without ib-ing the 2nd hit first. if you barrier + instant block it in the air, at a certain height (make it so that only the 2nd hit will touch you), it's a free air grab though.

[Nobus3r1]

Against a Ragna this evening I had dreams of Gadget Finger -> MTW -> Rapid Cancel (if needed; and Voltic Charge if needed) -> 360B. I got as far as the superflash for MTW before dying to his astral. Moving beyond this tragedy is there anything I could have done there other than Gadget Flinger or blocking that would have resulted in me not dying?

[natearistata]

Fairly certain Ragna is completely invincible all the way through the swing of his sword, so all you could've done is block. Off block, you can 720 it, even without IB.

[Mike Z]

Yep, only block. I had a guy kill me once by clashing Inferno Dividaa with MTW and clash-cancelling into his Astral by accident.

[severin]

before anybody asks how you accidentally astral, this is a guy that does a 540º motion for his Berial Edges

[Osuna]

Against a Ragna this evening I had dreams of Gadget Finger -> MTW -> Rapid Cancel (if needed; and Voltic Charge if needed) -> 360B. I got as far as the superflash for MTW before dying to his astral. Moving beyond this tragedy is there anything I could have done there other than Gadget Flinger or blocking that would have resulted in me not dying?

5A after gadget would have whiffed and recovered in time to block, but really you shouldn't be gadget fingering a full meter ragna with burst while you're dying. He has like the maximum range of ways to screw you in that situation. You'd have to really yomi exactly what he's going to do, because astral isn't the only way for him to ruin your MTW on reaction.

[Nobus3r1]

Fairly certain Ragna is completely invincible all the way through the swing of his sword, so all you could've done is block. Off block, you can 720 it, even without IB.

That's good to know even if this situation doesn't come up that often.

5A after gadget would have whiffed and recovered in time to block, but really you shouldn't be gadget fingering a full meter ragna with burst while you're dying. He has like the maximum range of ways to screw you in that situation. You'd have to really yomi exactly what he's going to do, because astral isn't the only way for him to ruin your MTW on reaction.

His ways of ruining MTW are what? Inferno Divider and apparently Astral. I was factoring in ID I just didn't know that Astral beat out MTW cleanly. Is there something else I'm missing?

[Osuna]

That's good to know even if this situation doesn't come up that often.

His ways of ruining MTW are what? Inferno Divider and apparently Astral. I was factoring in ID I just didn't know that Astral beat out MTW cleanly. Is there something else I'm missing?

He had 100 meter and that if you XYH you guard point and he can RC to put you at disadvantage. Even if he infernodividered twice, or clashed and let it go through, off a reversal ID or one done on reaction to the super flash. Also if he mashes ID 1 or 2ish frames faster than you, he hits you out of the XYH start up but that's just a funny little note. Also funny is that our options are so limited in this situation that it is totally plausible for an opponent to be prepared for it and win on reaction. This is part of the reason we don't GF Ragna.

EDIT: by maximum range of ways to screw you I mean he has a lot of options out of gadget and if you don't yomi the right one you die, not that he had a million ways to beat magnatech wheel. He really has 2 (not counting block and mash dp for RC into pressure at worst) reversal dp or move/block/jump then DP on reaction. He can rc it even if he does 2 dps on reaction to the flash while jumping away from you.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Osuna