[CS1] Iron Tager vs. Arakune

[bjholmes2]

CS matchup discussions are now open! Axis edit =============================================== ok ok guys you got me. your still having big trouble with the ara match up so I'll talk about it. Tager vs ara: 4-6/3.5-6.5 things you should do: walk forward, sledge or VTC j.D's, don't get cursed, be patient, AA appropriately, stay out of the air if you can help it. things you don't do: sledge stupidly, 2D, move backwords, and waste spark. things you should watch out for or avoid: 2C: this move...disrespectful and nasty it's a fast move coming out at 14F and will beat a lot of your pokes he can combo from it for 100% curse. (doesn't have to FC on tager.) this move is really active trust me even if you backdash it your more than likely gonna get hit by its ending active frames, either block it or yomi 4D it, you can 5C it at the start of it but its not really rewarding to do so. 5C: Ara's best AA and the one you will see the most in this match, this move is a problem...a big problem. 5-25F invul meaning no matter what poke your using its going to beat it. (he can afford to be late because tagers jump's are slow.) he can go into 100% curse with FC and if you block it he can jump cancel or use 5D->run away to curse and escape making this the sole reason why you shouldn't high jump in this match.... air grab: 100% curse if your at mid height...so don't get air grabbed. counter assault:I know what your thinking? how can his counter assault be threatening? its a grab and if he has 100 heat it will lead into curse. trust me this is gonna be the one you will get salty about. j.B: ara's normal pressure tool...its not so much a threat as it is annoying, he can link this into his normal BnB so don't get hit by it, you can situationally AA it or backdash it or just IB it. 6D: bell bug, another anti jump tool on tager, nets the biggest curse, and will make you want to sledge it...let me put it this way, this move will get you killed, this move got me killed...for god sakes don't sledge it right when he summon's. your gonna whiff and get cursed. Back dash: haha this is a big problem, why? because it has little recovery and will get him out of your pressure almost for free but if you magnetize arakune its not too bad, you see he has very little recovery on it making it hard to spark him but if you have him magnetized and he wants to backdash you can smack him with 5D or use j.D to pull him back in. there I just told you what to look for in this match. might edit first post with this meh. couple things: MTW beats teleports and backdash magnetized. 720 kills backdash magnetized. 5D on magnetized kune rapes his ground zoning to an extent. Ara's 5D can be jump canceled on block. when your cursed block accordingly, if you get hit don't burst when the C bug hits or you freeze in burst animation, same for counter assault trust me I raged when this happened. Ara has no wake up option's next to super. these should be noted also you can do double collider combo's like 2C xx collider->J.C whiff->J.2C->2B xx collider. my god Mike old notation boggles me. -_- thanks mike.

Edited November 6, 2010 by A.X.I.S.

[Tofu Warrior]

This match up is very manageable, the only thing I have a problem dealing with is repeated j.B pressure. 2C gets stuffed for free and I don't think 2A beats it either, though I haven't explored using that move as an anti-air much. A fellow Tager player at the arcade told me he uses 360+A, is that a reliable option? Any pointers?

[A.X.I.S.]

atomic colider is said to have invin at frame one, try that.

[Maho]

It doesn't feel like so much frame one invuln to me, what i wonder is if he does iad jB, will he be high enough to get grabbed by it, have to try. If the problem is iad jB x n, you can IB one jB and hit him out of the next iad with 2A/5A, 2c should also work (might trade but that's not much of a problem), 360A will be hard to use it there honnestly. About this matchup being very manageable, do not forget one thing, CS Tager is quite easy to use, you can use his news things effectively very fast, for exemple i was raping everyone with gadget mixups, it can still work now but not as much. On the other hand, Arakune has changed a lot and players will need time to get their game on, not everyone is Fumo/Souji, this matchup looks better than in CT (but that's not really hard lol), but to know how much better we'll have to wait.

[Mike Z]

IMO this match is totally manageable, all you have to do is make sure to let yourself get cursed at inopportune times for him. If you can manage to get cursed far away, you can pretty much just block high, and none of the combos he can do from low moves will do more than ~3-4K, even for full curse meter. His most damaging stuff comes from high hits or throws.

[Tofu Warrior]

Learned something new today, 360+A beats Arakune's back dash when he's magnetized; just hold the button down, and it conveniently auto-grabs as he reappears. It really shows you how 360+A's magnetic pull got buffed, very useful. So like Lambda, this is another 50/50 mix up after Gadget Finger.

[Leo7]

More on dealing with j.B pressure. 2A can stuff j.B on start-up, if they do repeated j.B pressure, yes. I've also had very mild success with IB-ing a j.B and doing 360B right after (seen other Tager players just do 360A). Also, if the Kune player does a falling j.B really low to the ground, and you do 360A at around the same time, you should catch him. e.g. To give a simple example, if the Ara does j.6A > falling j.B blockstring for pressure, if you do a 360A after the j.6A, the j.B will completely whiff and go through your invinc-frames and you'll catch him right when he lands.

[Henaki]

j.B early jB gets ch by 2a falling jB (from high) trades clean with 2C backdash 720 works occassionally, this is punishable but it beats the jB usually and catches the fall, gotta do it early. IBing jB doesnt seem to work if they do it again but most arakunes will go for stand a pressure after a jB so they can mixup into curse

[OrionXElite]

I need some help with this matchup. I'm so inexperienced with it that I have no clue what to do. It doesn't help that the only Arakune player I see frequently is CopperDabbit...This is seriously my worst matchup So I need some advice on when to try and hit back. I'm so lost when I'm cursed I can't even think of a possible time to try and poke out of the pressure. Blocking the whole time doesn't usually work out too well either to due getting guard crushed. I suppose maybe I'm just not being ballsy enough to try anything due to the fact that he can take 70% of my health in one shot. Any help is much appreciated.

[Shervin]

this is my favorite matchup for putting down the controller and grabbing a snack

[A.X.I.S.]

this match up is completely doable colider invul helps so much here and fatal 2C makes ara respect you, just keep a eye on your curse gauge and IB a lot and I mean a lot...and when you do get cursed prepare for some nasty shit.

[A.X.I.S.]

ok lets be real here.

I have no clear way of approaching him, and he has a solid advantage on us since he bait our AA's and he's always in the air...that last statement doesn't make sense and neither does this match!

it feels like if I stand still I get cursed, if I approach I get cursed.

one thing for sure when I do get him I push his ass to the corner and do as much as I can which usually gets the bastard killed.

so any idea's on approaching him?

I get if he wants to do J.D then voltec charge or sledge is good to keep you from blocking or getting hit by j.D.

but jumping in will get you 5C'd and if it fatals then say hello to 100% curse and bee's.

if you try to poke him when he's magnetized he can and will shark fatal you.

god this match up is confusing!

[Isorropia]

It's an odd match to be sure, but, yeah...I pretty much do the things you just said. >.>

If he's doing fullscreen j.d then I just charge a spark, when it's full I start walking forward, if he touches j.d/2.d/6d you can sledge on reaction to get in at this stage. Once you get him magnetised you can actually zone him, but as you said, be aware of shark. I find j.d tends to be safe-ish from shark due to landing canceling recovery, otherwise empty jump to bait, etc. Using 5C>5D instead of raw 5D seems to help with not getting sharked as well, from my experience vs the arakune I play against.

If they aren't familiar with the matchup, collider when they wall teleport is oh-so-funny. :S

Also with jumping in you can totally do it, his 5C is slow, if he does it early you can elbow, and if he does it late you should be able to just j.b, whiff through it, land and block.

[A.X.I.S.]

dude the ara I fight always does 5C timed so I have to block it, he will 5D it and super jump away.

also this is something I can't stress enough, normally when a spark whiff its bad, not the worst thing around but its pretty bad.

in this match do not miss the spark, never miss it! you must and I fucking mean you must hit him with it, if he avoids it then your fucking screwed, spark is the one thing you gotta get him to block or hit for you to make this match up easier.

also 2A is a godsend if you know how to use it.

wait 5C hits him out of shark!? oh shit!

[Leo7]

4D and 5A hit him out of shark as well (but I find these to be unreliable). If you're getting hit by Fatal Counter shark a lot, I'd say don't press buttons too much, and just try to bait it like Isoroppia said.

[femoral]

Question, I have yet to find a way around letting him get curse meter if he is full screen and has the ground cloud out. it WILL curse you. Tager is too fat to normal jump over it, and if u super jump he will bell bug you... Anyone got a way around this?

[A.X.I.S.]

you can't prevent him from getting curse meter full screen without spark.

with spark he has to actually go out his way to avoid it to cloud...allowing you to get in.

just watch for shark.

[Sogetsu Kazama]

dude the ara I fight always does 5C timed so I have to block it, he will 5D it and super jump away.

also this is something I can't stress enough, normally when a spark whiff its bad, not the worst thing around but its pretty bad.

in this match do not miss the spark, never miss it! you must and I fucking mean you must hit him with it, if he avoids it then your fucking screwed, spark is the one thing you gotta get him to block or hit for you to make this match up easier.

also 2A is a godsend if you know how to use it.

wait 5C hits him out of shark!? oh shit!

5C really knocks him out of shark? This sounds awesome..almost too awesome

[A.X.I.S.]

it does but its kinda hard to do it...5B works as well if you got you yomi it.

the best punish I found for shark was blocking...you can get a easy 360B if you do it...even though I keep using 5B>to crouch loop.

[Isorropia]

Yeah, when I said 5C I wasn't actually meaning you hit him out of shark, I was meaning that unlike 5D he can't shark it on reaction, he can only shark 5C on prediction and therefore you can bait and block. (Unless they're like, japanese or something)

[Smurvis]

I haven't played the top Arakunes in the country or anything, and I'm not a top Tager, but I do have one particular question and a few things I've noticed that I'm not sure if they've been covered in other threads.

Sledge doesn't do anything to the curse clouds anymore, and you still get it. But Sledge seems to still negate the curse meter gain Arakune would get if you sledge through one of his D moves or whatever. Is j.B the move where he jumps forward with all the little nails? I've been beating that with 2C but he's probably too high. Also if he tries to anti-air you with 5C for a Fatal Counter, it seems that mixing up j.B vs j.2C screws with the timing due to that slight air pause the elbow has. It seems that if Ara properly times 5C and Tager does the j.2C then Ara wins, but if Ara tries to anti-air your j.B and you end up j.2Cing then you'll hit him towards the end of his 5C animation and win.

My main question is really specific though. When Arakune gets the curse cloud that sits on the ground and moves towards you, what do you do? The Ara I've played follows behind it and drops bells. If you jump, you end up blocking the bell and falling into the curse cloud. The couple of times I tried to hit the bell before I knew quite how it worked, I got CH by it which gave WAY more curse than just blocking... and THEN fell into the cloud anyway. It seems like my best option is to try to get a good distance and just A Sledge into the cloud and take the curse from it where I won't normally get punished for A Sledge-ing. Is there a way around the follow cloud + Bell combo? I can't jump over it, and if I back up I'm left in the corner with the same situation. It really seems like my BEST option is to just accept the forward cloud hit as free and continue the match. Attempts to avoid said forward cloud have resulted in Negative Warning + Cloud, Blocked Bell + Cloud, and CH Bell + Cloud. All 3 situations end up being WAY worse for me than if I just walk into the damn thing.

Any tips on getting around Forward Cloud + Bell?

[Isorropia]

If arakune's staying back and using a lot of clouds (in order to randomly get that version), charge up a spark. Then once he gets the forward cloud and starts trying to do this strat you're talking about, having spark volt charged should stop it cold.

[A.X.I.S.]

I'm gonna give you the most trust worthy advice I have ever heard.

Mike Z said it, and now I say it.

walk, for god sakes whatever you do walk...jumping gets you FC'd and gives ara curse meter.

walking gives you time to react to the situation and gives ara curse.

I seriously mean it.

walk! do not sledge! only sledge if your in range and your reacting to his drives.

trust me on this, this advice may sound obvious but I assure you, in this match you wanna stay grounded, you really don't wanna get in the air with ara.

you do not have a second jump and your much better off.

I fight ara every week and after I learned this he had a really hard time dealing with me.

also to a good response to ara's j.D is A sledge, because ara can time his j.D's to hit you out of voltech charge.

[Smurvis]

But if I don't have a Spark Volt charged, is taking the cloud the best option?

And that's what I mean about sledging. I don't mean randomly doing B Sledge in a neutral situation because I want to. I'm referring to using it to get through his Drives, whatever the other moves are that give him curse. The ones I can sledge through, when I know it's happening.

[SOVIET AFRO]

Bellbug (6D) Hot Lugie (2D) mini-cannon (5D) and j.D (little ground bug) can be sledged through, just be aware of spacing and of High Cloud as well cause FC 2C hurts..... alot(specially with that high cloud up, thats 50% curse for Arakune, at bare minimum.

Just as Axis said... Walk like a Z (as in Zangeif) there isn't a whole lot Arakune can do once you get in and get a little magnetisim