Mike Z

Question, since I don't own Xrd to test it: You can FD brake run, so does the OS work by doing run->motion+tap FD twice? The first FD would break you out of the run, then releasing would possibly allow you to go into proxy guard or not, then the 2nd tap would still be a valid input for the motion but would give you the OS. Maybe...? If this does work you could expedite it by holding down the button that isn't for the special move, so if you want the special with S you could do FD with [K]S, S.

When the people you're making unhappy are the people who have stuck with the event all the way through, maybe you should rethink your stance. :^| If you DQ'd people for a week or two or adhered to times for when brackets for a given game will really be starting, they'd stop doing that. Guaranteed. I don't care about entry fees, but I still think everything you normally run could run on time if you were stricter about it, or maybe didn't run as many overlapping games simultaneously. In my experience as a TO, if fewer people are playing a bunch of games at once, it can often be faster to run A then B then C until most people are out, then to run A and B and C at the same time. Even things like a deputy continuing to run the tournaments while you yourself are playing a game would improve things a lot. For a game of BB that's 10 min wasted not advancing every tournament while you play. Perhaps something like prioritizing matches for the game that will be next on stream, or something. Being just a bit stricter can make things MASSIVELY more efficient. I'll help, if you need it. I don't know about other games, but good SG and GG players go. This is basically ignoring the people who have been coming the entire time.If the "top players" (whoever they are) are the only people important to you, I'm not sure I can comfortably encourage people to attend the event. I try hard to keep the esports distinction between Players and Fans from impacting the FGC. I certainly am not willing to drive there every time just to play one game...perhaps if the overlap were different (SG/GG/VSav - P4/BB/UNiB) it might be more appealing to me personally, but that's a minor point.

Until they say the game isn't going to get patched anymore, IMO it's up to the devs to fix. After that, the players can decide what they want to accept or ban. But just because tournaments enforce their own arbitrary ruleset doesn't mean online does, which is where the majority of people will play, and they will be annoyed as hell by this. It will also be reported on FGC news sites, as it now has been. So ultimately I think banning it in tournament is a worse choice from the "but but people will think the game is bad" side too, since people can say "Well it's only playable if you ignore these things". If I can beat you with one combo and one button, I want my winnings! If you think that sucks, and you don't want to do it yourself - always an option! - maybe you should play a different game. My view is: If it freezes the game or prevents the other player from playing without killing them and without any further input on your part (which is essentially freezing the game, like Guile Handcuffs) then it's not acceptable; but pretty much anything else should be okay at this point. I suppose things that require 'further input' that's just mashing or that do not have any setup requirements, like that Dante bug in MvC3, are probably also not acceptable. But if it has a setup, timing, or meter requirement, sure. I didn't mind the dead-body infinites in MvC2 - if you can keep up 2f links with precise positioning for 99 seconds, go nuts. Most people decided to try to use them just to get to the corner (which became the official rule for when it's okay) because they were HARD, and they didn't seem any stupider than the rest of the tourney-legal stuff was. FDC infinites were certainly allowed in GGX tournaments. I think players today are slightly too ban happy and have lost that "OK, I'll find a way to win anyway" mindset. Not allowing a thing in tournaments doesn't make the game itself any better, basically. It's one step away from "throws are cheap". With this specific infinite, I don't think it'll even "make everyone play Waldstein". [edit] I think there should at least be one major tournament which allows it so that it can be appropriately determined whether it's even really a factor. The guy that did it in the a-cho vid didn't spend the night dominating everyone, for example.

At 6 seconds left, 3 reps wins you the round. There are other combos you could have do to time scam there too, but there's always a point in doing it to the maximum allowed. Doing 3-4 reps every time you get the opportunity is certainly going to be annoying to your opponent, which may give you an edge as well.

A realistic ruleset for banning it would be: Limit Waldstein to two non-wallbounce 6Cs in a row. (If you want to be really harsh, limit him to one. If you want to be nicer, allow them to do it until the other player says "stop".) A regular [wallbouncing] 6C that close to the wall requires him to turn around to continue the combo, so doing two in a row must be intentional and can only be an infinite setup, and three or more is basically impossible accidentally since it takes something like 6 seconds before the 3rd 6C. Since NOT doing it is literally just being 1 pixel outside the corner, and it is actually fairly hard to set up besides the specific setups into 623C, I would say you are safe limiting anyone to two non-bounce 6Cs. You are probably safe limiting him to one or even zero for the most part. Two is more than enough to confirm a knockdown corner oki setup if you really want to abuse the bug to get that situation. If you wanted to be very harsh, just ban a corner 6C after 623C. You'd pretty much never do that except to start the infinite, and there are plenty of other followups for 623C. As with any other rule, someone breaking it should require the victim to immediately halt the round and alert a judge. If they let the round finish then the result stands. A game without any infinites at all, with low-ranked characters winning major tournaments? Yep. Sounds like you haven't played it since before Encore, eh? :: waits patiently for you to post the Evo2013 finals, which is the equivalent of posting a vanilla UNiB combo now :: I'm not even sure what kind of insult you intended by that post, maybe you'd like to clarify. To be clear, I look at this as the developers' problem, rather than the players', which is why I say use it and abuse it at every opportunity so that if the developers care to not have their game dropped they are prodded to fix it more quickly. (I apply the same philosophy to SG, which is why it's gotten so many fixes.)

I say allow it because as long as it's there that IS the state of the game, dressing it up nicely doesn't make it less broken. You can't ban it online, and the people who do learn the game and then encounter it would get frustrated there anyway, since it's so easy to set up and to do. The difference between this and a soft-lock is that this at least takes some execution the entire time. I don't agree with sanitizing tournaments to lure more people in, but I'm sure most people do agree with that, which is sad. Hell you could even just allow it if Wald is losing. :^) (I also think it's easily the most entertaining part of the game so far, but that's just me.)

If you get a couple and then they wallbounce, you pressed it too late. If they wallbounce off the first one you were either not all the way in the corner, or pressed it too late. Just do it ASAP every time, or mash, until you learn what the timing should look like.

Alrighty, I spent $60 just to be able to make this post. Here we go! ALL the info you could want on Waldstein's "Let's Play Catch With Myself" infinite. (Does that make this post an "infonite"?) Does it still work on console? You bet your sweet bippy it does. Video example! WHAT is this infinite? Various setups exist, but the infinite itself is simple: 6C xN Yes, that's it. One button. It scales down to zero damage doesn't do any damage because the damage for that attack would come from the wallbounce, but if you have the life lead you can easily force a Time Out. It actually seems not to scale the combo damage at all, so if you need some more damage afterward you can finish with something like 4B->623+B, or 3C for a little extra. It does not require any timing except that you do the next 6C as fast as possible. You can mash and you will get it every time, but you will also get tired way before Time's Up. This game has a large input buffer, or at least 6C does, so the timing is pretty lenient. Mash it a few times to see what the timing should be, then just tap it appropriately. Takes 5 minutes or less to learn consistently. WHO does it work on? Everyone. Yep. HOW do I set it up? You put Waldstein with his face up against the corner and catch the opponent with a 6C. When he releases them, they will not wallbounce, so you just catch them with another 6C and repeat. The setup everyone talks about is (100 meter, near corner) 5B xx 214B xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...but I found one that I think is easier and more consistent. I'll explain why it's easier in the next section, but here is the setup: 5AA xx 623B (2 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C...since 5AA gives you 5A->5B. Versus grounded opponents you can do 623B(3 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C... WHY does it work? Waldstein always releases the opponent at the same height, so it is not the height he catches them at that matters. It seems to be because, in order to have them bounce, the wall-slam animation requires the opponent to not be in contact with the wall, then make contact with it. To do the infinite, Waldstein must be directly against the wall when he catches them, so that when he releases them they are already touching the wall, and therefore won't bounce. So I lied, height sort of matters: You need to be directly against the wall and catch them before they come down far enough for their collision box to push Waldstein away from the wall. Which means they need to be high enough for that to happen. WHEN can I set this up in real matches? Two things matter: That you put them up high enough, and how close you are to the wall. That means forward-moving setups are best, which is why I recommend 623B(2 hits) over 214B - it moves Waldstein forward more. Here are some easy setups that cover distance, which I've found to be the most consistent: 100 meter, within 1/2 screen of the corner: 5AA xx 623B(2 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C... 200 meter, within 1 screen of the corner: 5AA xx 623B(2 hits) xx 623C, 623B(2 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C... 100 meter + Vorpal, anywhere on the stage (!) 5AA->4B xx [4]6A, CS (mash D to get it fastest), 4B xx 623B (3 hits) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C... This one is kinda stupid - land a hit literally anywhere on the stage with Vorpal and force a timeout. It only actually requires about 20 meter if you have 3 blocks of GRD, because the combo plus the CS will give you the meter to do 623C. You can do this off pretty much any combo into 4B, like for example 5A->2A->5B->2B->4B xx [4]6A CS 4B 623B(3) xx 623C, 6C, 6C, 6C... Enjoy! I know I will. :^)

You're probably correct! It was the console build at E3, maybe they got rid of it for E3 so Joe Schmo gets to do supers more often? I could see that being a decision since the effect on tension gain is invisible to most people. I tested by doing things and having Pot walk forward and timing how long it took him to get 25% by walking after things like an RC or super, or having hit them a bunch like would give you a bonus in AC, and I didn't see a difference. It was unscientific, of course. :^) Re: less options = less depth Not necessarily, it depends on what those options really do for you in practice and how many of them really get used. Look at ST vs like X-Men Mutant Academy or something. And even if less options did = less depth generally, that does NOT imply that more options = more depth. See below, right here: Re: Wild Throw YRC air throw The problem with that is, if you connect with the Wild Throw then a following PKS~UF+H will be ignored. So it's not a read or a reaction, it's an OS, and a simple one at that. To me, that's not only not depth, it's a step backward for GG. You don't have to agree, but OS's like that being such a dominant part of the game are what killed SF4 for me. I want to be read, not training-mode'd. Re: FRC vs YRC and cancelling to neutral FRCs are only at certain times on certain moves, and Force Breaks rarely let you make things safe on whiff (Iruka-san is the only FB I can think of that even comes close to what YRCs do). An FRC you had to commit to, you couldn't whiff a random 6H and then just say "Oops!" and fix it afterward. The lack of commitment is my biggest problem. The fact that there are hit-block-whiff OSs is a close second, since you can't YRC on hit or block but you can chain into things that are safe on block. There was a video I wish I could find again where Slayer dizzies Sol then does 5H into Dead On Time. Sol bursts after the 5H, so Slayer YRCs the Dead On Time after the superflash, blocks the burst and kills Sol. Slayer SCREWED UP, and in any other game Sol would have lived, but Slayer had no reason not to be trying to YRC since if Sol didn't burst the super would have finished without being YRC'd. (If they have burst in previous games you don't hit->super, you just super.) In that situation, there was no way for Sol to survive, and Slayer didn't have to react to Sol's choice one bit since the relatively simple OS of "press 3 buttons" handles it for him. In my eyes that's just not Guilty Gear, it's not what the game has ever been about. It's a dumbing-down of the strategy and it removes what made the series fun for me. Again, you don't have to agree. Judging by the number of people that still play BB and SF4 I'm not in the majority. (^.^) I have always respected Guilty Gear for the intelligent design choices and the way it encouraged knowledgeable, thoughtful play and reactions. Xrd doesn't feel like that anymore.

That is probably the IB window being big and Rensen's hits being fast, which is the same thing that happens in BB. If the IB window is 12f (say) and you have 3 hits happen inside 12f then you will IB all of them as long as the input was still valid. It's not some specific exception that's made so the IB input lasts longer on multihit moves. My E3 Xrd impressions: (feel free to ask questions and whenever I come back next I'll look) - I'll say this on the positive side: the game is absolutely BEAUTIFUL. Like holy-crap-is-this-real beautiful. There are some rough edges, but in matches you don't notice at all. - It certainly does feel slower than AC+R, noticeably slower. Likely this is due to longer hitstop? since the individual actions themselves didn't feel slower. I had to slow down my button press timing for Potemkin P->K->S->2D, for example. - YRCs are the least Guilty-Gear-ish thing you could add to a Guilty Gear. They singlehandedly took the game from making good reads and knowing their character well in order to win to "just throw stuff out" and "oh oops, YRC" which is incredibly un-fun. Not to mention the burst-safe OS junk. Even in the Versus games you can't cancel to NEUTRAL on whiff, only to riskier attacks. - Watching cinematics each time you do a super got old pretty quick, and the camera cuts on Dusts and on the KO hit are very jarring while playing. At least to me. - The lack of force breaks and newer moves that had unique utility makes characters feel...flat. I'll admit to not really being excited for them when they were added originally, but going back to not having them after this long, when the newer added moves don't cover the same holes in characters' movesets, feels stale. [edit] Because Force Breaks cost meter they were able to have properties or strengths that you just can't give to a meterless special attack. My takeaway: I have absolutely no desire to play this game. Zero. I came away with the same impression I got from MvC3 - "Well, that's enough of that game." And I don't mean because Pot is awful*, I've played Pot since the beginning regardless so I can lose 25 in a row no sweat. :^P It just...doesn't feel like a Guilty Gear to me. (More like a GG fan game? I guess that's pretty harsh.) It's a huge regression for the series, like the creators didn't play anything after #r. Whether or not #r is where GG started from, for the last eight years "Guilty Gear" has meant AC, and on the whole I think the series made a lot of positive strides. Things like choosing between damage or knockdown kinda don't seem to exist in Xrd, you get both. The addition of the random element in Danger Time, Hell Fire making you do absurd damage, or the seemingly complete absence of Tension Pulse encouraging willy-nilly meter use are just so backward for GG. It's like Capcom deciding to make MvC3 and base it off XMen: Children of the Atom, or people wanting to play World Warrior instead of ST. It's great for laughs, but it's not something I would choose to play when the alternative is available. Heidern98 could come back from another universe and challenge me to matches and I'd say no. (Unless he wanted to play some AC+R, that is. :^) Maybe the next version. * We already know Potemkin is absolutely terrible, so I'll gloss it over. Heh.

If you have less than 50% meter you can't RC but you can YRC, so on hit = chain and on whiff when they burst = YRC.

If you can combo into flick you can combo into PB, probably? Also not specifically Pot related but I was here already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmCtjbSYCuA#t=172 (at 2:52 if the forum eats the timestamp) Looks like you can YRC if the opponent bursts, so under 50% meter doing chains with P->K->(P+K+S)->(P+K+H)->(P+K+special) seems like it'd be the go-to guaranteed burstbait OS unless I'm misinformed about YRCs again.

Nope, that was OTG, you can see the dust circle Axl makes from landing. (Also to post a time rightclick the vid -> "Copy video URL at current time" :^) CH Giganter -> 6H was basically instant stun though. Does anyone know if he still gets 5P->2S vs air? I mean, the way things are going I bet not, but I should ask...

Back on topic, can you YRC specials any time or are there specific YRC points? I seem to recall you can do it anytime. If that's the case then you could use special->YRC as a ghetto 25% RC. With the slowdown, I wonder if you can do 6H xx flick immediate YRC 6H...seems likely in the corner but I wonder about midstage.

I just remember Mori saying "nobody has fun when grapplers are good". And what, he doesn't even get CH FDB pull-in but Sol gets dustloops again? See you in Xrd+.

YAY that thing I did got noticed by Arcsys-sempai!

Amateurs. It once took me 5 hours to record a combo on a VHS tape, and when I went to go play it back I accidentally hit Record and wiped it. It then took me 3 more hours to get it partially recorded again. That's why the ending is dumb. (Turns out it required several pixel-perfect parts each loop.) Potegaman took about 49 hours of editing. All the art, sound effects, cutscenes and health bars were done frame by frame by hand. And those are nothing compared to REAL work like Thong of Rage. Time was, MEN DIED working on combo videos. Chiseled on the SlimX's gravestone is "Nearly got all the clips for Vol 5 now". You people think slapping something together in AfterEffects with spelling errors, title overlays and logarithmic fades is work? GET OFF MY LAWN!

I hate Hakumen with a passion but I'll agree with that - they could have made the counters worse without making them have such eensy range on the hit.

I think that's down to player execution...

Looks to me like this is a lot easier to not screw up and accidentally make the flinging move combo, which puts it above the Collider version for me already. That and if you do combo it you get a Buster which will probably get air teched into another air Buster pull attempt, which seems better than 200 dmg and the free escape that accidentally messing up Collider got you.

Personally I think the contest is a good idea with not-great execution. Polling the community about which game to include makes sense, obviously. And it's for charity, which makes me feel awkward about not being 100% for it. However, since it isn't limited to one "vote" per person, nor is it limited to just people who would really attend - or even watch - Evo, the entire thing can be skewed by a generous individual, or by a group that just decides to mess with it. (For example, if SG wins, it'd be nice if the reason that it won was because that was what the FGC really wanted, but in the current contest there's no way to tell. I saw a post once that talked about ranking internet questionnaires by how vulnerable they are to 4chan, and I thought that was a great metric.) I'd have done something like "If you're registered for Evo and have paid at least the spectator fee you get one vote", or "If you had an SRK/EventHubs/etc username before this contest started you get one vote". Both of these can still be influenced, but not on the order of unlimited influence from a person/group with no real interest in the results beyond the end of the contest. Admittedly neither of them puts money toward charity, but as systems I'd say they're more reasonable for what the goal is. [edit] That said, the current contest is what it is, so everyone go find anyone you know and have them donate! :^P

Wow, that Amane matchup...

Hey, Tager players...is it weird of me to suggest that you donate to help Skullgirls be the 8th game at Evo? "If every one of you donated just $5, we'd have...$25 more." Yeah, I think it's kinda weird too, but when will there be another chance to buy games into Evo, heh. Maybe pretend you like that tutorial vid enough to pay $5 for it? Considering this is the Tager forum, though, you might also want to donate to try and get BBCP in. [edit] My largest apologies for the above post, I couldn't not make it.

That's what I get for being clever. :^S

Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOdp2TPR8NY#t=12m40s It's just too bad I have to watch this game on mute...