[CS1] Arakune Combo Discussion Thread

[Irrsinn]

I think dive loop is more damaging but the wheel loop is (even) easier to do.

これをしましょう。

Looks really interesting, but for the first variation, shouldn't a ja>jb>jc>jd work better after the air dash, I've seen jb used to get a bit closer for the jc to hit, sounds a bit easier.

What are you on Skye, the opp. isn't airbone even once in that combo, the jc would whiff :8/:.

[kousaka]

yeah what irrsinn said, the opponent is stunned from 5d during the combo while you air dash in.. easiest way is with IAD j4B but due to some hit boxes you will be too far.. with IAD jA you float upwards a bit, then you fall back down at around head height with j4a>j4b so summing up 6A>5D>IAD JA>J4A>J4B>5A>6B>J6D I tested this quite a bit yesterday. Make sure you go back to neutral after IAD otherwise you'll end with a J6A. the dive loop is more situational to mid screen but does more damage... if can be used in the corner where the C dive whiffs similar to the combo ender wheel loop is universal and much more versatile Has anyone heard of jC cancelling? Doing a jC just before landing to cancel some of the recovery? Supposedly used in IAD j4B(jC cancelled) to control the number of B hits

[lunaris]

Has anyone heard of jC cancelling? Doing a jC just before landing to cancel some of the recovery? Supposedly used in IAD j4B(jC cancelled) to control the number of B hits

yes. it had/has other uses as well, such as making it easier to get a throw in(like once per match, or opponent) and forcing your opponent to block low earlier than they would normally have to.

in CT i also used it as a last-minute method of getting a 6]c[ bug out if i was pressuring with j.b in the corner, although more than an advanced technique it was simply pressing the c button.

i haven't tested it but i suspect this could be useful in getting off j.b>2a>2c>RC combos, as i've noticed that it's easier to tech j.a>j.c in this game. i'm not sure if cancelling j.b early would give you enough time to pull off 2a though.

[kousaka]

hmm thats interesting as I've been looking for ways to press buttons down for bugs during curse.. and in vids all i see is people jumping around sometimes.. perhaps they're doing jC cancels and i didn't even notice

[Irrsinn]

I always thought they pressed the buttons just as Arakune touches the floor, since he has some recovery from that, uh, right?

[lunaris]

well, a use for it in CT is as follows: j.b>b bug only requires 3 hits from j.b(provided the camera isn't zoomed out due to your height). so, you can use j.c to both cancel the unnecessary hits of your j.b and summon a c bug to go into a combo. i'm not sure if the b bug will link with the c bug, but i know it does if you use 5c(which is a lot better than needing to use 2 or 5a). also, has it been posted that you can rc the super from a throw for 100% curse(untested on some characters, like carl)? it doesn't work without RC on characters like tager as far as i know. on some you can do it without RCing from a 4throw by simply moving arakune backwards(and still getting the last few hits in). i haven't been able to test if proration allows for this from attacks like 2a/2b/5a/etc when linked directly to super yet, however. judging from the fact that such combos aren't written on the JP wiki, i would guess not, but you never know. being able to combo 100 curse from some of ara's mixup attacks would be pretty powerful.

[kousaka]

hmm i know that you can't adjust beam on tager due to his size and you can adjust on other characters to move them higher for you to 5D them, but i haven't seen or tested cancelling the beam to make it easier to 5D.. there's some talk on jp forums about the number of hits from beam super.. they adjust the beam so that it hits less such that they can 5d and beam super again, or 5d and go into a dive combo too many hits from beam or before the beam will allow them to tech after you 5d.. ive not tested it, but there's alittle chart of beam hits and when to stop the beam 2A×2→ビーム合計36hit以下 2A×3→ビーム合計19hit以下 2A~1-3>beam super>5d>beam super>5d>hjC>jD (100% curse)

[lunaris]

there's some talk on jp forums about the number of hits from beam super.. they adjust the beam so that it hits less such that they can 5d and beam super again, or 5d and go into a dive combo

yeah. this is actually what the RC is for, it's not for getting off the 5d. you can actually RC the super on the second hit(before beam comes out) and link into 5d, but i haven't tested the maximum hits you can do for certain moves.

i know that it can be done off of 6b with easy hit confirmation, which may make it useful if 2b>2a can't be used to do this. 6b has 71% initial proration, so i if i understand CS' proration system correctly anything under that mark can combo into super>100% curse if used as a starter. i'll test when i get the chance.

2A~1-3>beam super>5d>beam super>5d>hjC>jD (100% curse)

those kinds of combos are definitely preferable since they don't waste as much of the super's damage, but i imagine there are many situations/characters where they're just not possible.

[kousaka]

i think all of arakune's throws have no proration according to frame data

[lunaris]

i think all of arakune's throws have no proration according to frame data

on the jp wiki(http://www14.atwiki.jp/arakune/pages/64.html) it reads:

技　　　 単発　　 始動　　 乗算

...

投げ　　 1050　　 70　　　 70

is it outdated/inaccurate? i haven't seen ara's frame data from the mook yet.

[kousaka]

edited link out as a starter it says 100 pm if you need the link again

[SH-Junkie]

Thanks for informing on the loops guys, but I have another q? Idk why but for some reason I have been having trouble dive canceling in cs. I dnt rlly have a problem in ct, but in cs its like not working at all. How the hell you dive cancel in cs? XD Am I doing something wrong with timing? When do I exactly time it the 5b? P.S. So I can start practicing properly.... What are the inputs for Wheel loop and dive loop?

[kousaka]

it's the same except you can only do it on hit now so it's mainly used in combos

[lunaris]

http://www.j1n.org/veteru/blazblue/quashkanye/IMG101-Arakune.jpg

as a starter it says 100

thanks. but then as part of a combo, it says 100*70.

since the throw is two hits(is it even possible to RC the first?), could it mean that its second hit prorates 70%? which would mean the throw essentially has 70% proration unless you can combo out of the first hit.

for now i'll edit it out of my other post to avoid any misunderstanding if the JP wiki happens to be wrong, but i'd like to test this myself if the wiki and mook disagree with each other over what may be a technicality(since the second hit of the throw technically can't be the "start" of a combo and therefore would have no listed starting proration).

[SH-Junkie]

it's the same except you can only do it on hit now so it's mainly used in combos

OHHHHH ok thanks broski

[lunaris]

i went ahead and tested it, and after a throw, arakune's 2c does 560 damage(1610-1050), which is approximately 70% of its maximum damage according to the mook(800). strangely enough off of 2a it does 544 damage, even though it says 2a has 80% proration. so, the throw does effectively prorate 70% unless maybe you can combo off the first hit. as to the super combo, it didn't seem to work on any other hit confirmable strings, so it looks like it's limited to 6b and the throw. i tested the following and they all fail on the last j.a>j.c: 2ax2, 5ax2, 2b>2a, and 2a>5b(although i didn't test exactly one hit). it goes blue even if i try to skip out on the first j.a by simply doing 5d>j.c. i didn't compare the double super combo that kousaka posted, but if it works for 2ax2 then it's probably better overall. it would be timing sensitive and probably highly character specific both in its timing and viability, however. on a note unrelated to combos, i'm glad to see that j.d has +8 frame advantage on block. i think it's just about the only "safe" thing we can do meterless for 100 curse. but if the enemy's mashing to get out of a combo, chances are they'll hit you if you try to do j.d anyways. it'll definitely work as a bad player killer, though.

[Dacidbro]

Something to note, Lunaris, BB factors in both initial and secondary prorations on a starter. If it says 100/70, you're getting 70% total proration from it, in combo or not. If it says 85/85, you get 85% of 85% from it as a starter, or 85% if it's a filler.. For that reason, moves that prorate 100/100 are incredible (Usually only rapid'd command grabs or special cases), and moves that prorate 100/90ish are really, really good to start combos.

[lunaris]

Something to note, Lunaris, BB factors in both initial and secondary prorations on a starter. If it says 100/70, you're getting 70% total proration from it, in combo or not. If it says 85/85, you get 85% of 85% from it as a starter, or 85% if it's a filler..

For that reason, moves that prorate 100/100 are incredible (Usually only rapid'd command grabs or special cases), and moves that prorate 100/90ish are really, really good to start combos.

you're right, and that explains 2a's proration. i'd like to believe i knew that at some point(since i've seen the formula before) but forgot along the way. thanks for pointing it out.

i'm surprised there hasn't been a program created to calculate viable combos and such. seems like it wouldn't be too difficult(especially now that time is no longer a variable) given that the formulas are available.

[SOVIET AFRO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mym_trhxU0 at 2:17 (I've tried this) Souji Changes the Loop around and looks even easier, the timing is a little more strict on the bugs but its just as easy (if not easier) to do as any of the loops

The inputs for the Loops are

Wheel loop A....(started with j.C 5C bug crossup) j.6A\B->236CD x n ->236236C (if they aren't dead)

Wheel Loop B.... j.236CD (release C and D about halfway through the pinwheel) j.C->214C x n -> 236236C does roughly around 9.5k with full curse

The "Lazy Souji" wheel loop as seen at 2:17 in the vid.= j.236CD walk foward as D bug comes down x n -> 236236C (if they aren't dead) does roughly around 10k with 2 supers

Dive loop= j.1A->j.1C+D x n-> 236236C (if they arent dead)....10k+ with 2 supers at the end

[kousaka]

CH JB2hit>(J4C whiff land cancel)>5B>5D>IAD>J4A>JA>2A>5B>5D>IAD>J4A>JA>5A>6B>J6D (100% curse)

super hard combo but 100% curse reward

Corner variation:

JB3hit>(J4C whiff land cancel)＞5A＞6B＞IAD barrier cancel low JD＞5D＞(hjc)>JC>JD (100% curse)

[Skye]

Hey, is IADing any easier with Arakune?

I heard that he jumps slower in CS, does that change anything?

[Irrsinn]

CH JB2hit>(J4C whiff land cancel)>5B>5D>IAD>J4A>JA>2A>5B>5D>IAD>J4A>JA>5A>6B>J6D (100% curse)

super hard combo but 100% curse reward

Corner variation:

JB3hit>(J4C whiff land cancel)＞5A＞6B＞IAD barrier cancel low JD＞5D＞(hjc)>JC>JD (100% curse)

Is the first one a legit combo? does jA link to 2A on counterhit?

And wouldn't jA>jB>jC>jD work after the 5D in the second one?

[kousaka]

i'll test it and see later today

but from experience after so many hits you can't do jA>jB>jC>jD as an ender if you start with a JB, they'll tech on that second JB.. you can probably do j6b>jA>jC>jD, or some variation of jA>jC>jD

[NeoUmbra]

Hey guys. I quickly threw together a vid of 2 of arakunes loops for people who are having trouble finding them. Bear in mind my execution is really bad and i missed a few extra damage opitunities but anyways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J13lJWRcgE

(Dont ask about why the lifebar isnt moving i couldnt tell you anyways >.>)

[ZONG_one]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J13lJWRcgE

Good shit, quick question.

In the dive loop, is the D Bug buffered into the A dive or the C dive?