psycofang2 Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 why would you 4C or 6C a ragna running a you? EDIT:no never mind i take back everyting i said. i wont go any further.
DioBrando Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 I wouldn't unless I catch them with the tip of my move, but Why-Discipline warned we shouldn't due to the explained outcome.
Sophisticat Posted September 27, 2010 Posted September 27, 2010 Hop hotaru or D counter should beat that shit outright. Don't know why any decent Ragna would do it anyway, he's just asking for pain coming his way.
SteelCoil Posted September 27, 2010 Posted September 27, 2010 Hop hotaru or D counter should beat that shit outright. Don't know why any decent Ragna would do it anyway, he's just asking for pain coming his way. I'm pretty sure neither of those beat it out. Hotaru just clashes at best and D counters grabs during his invincibility frames. Unless I'm missing something. After all, ID's invincibility frames do last a long time. It'd probably be best to backdash or just block and let him waste half his meter.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted September 27, 2010 Posted September 27, 2010 C I.D has insane invincibility from frame one, not sure how long it's duration is but ti's long enough to last through yukikaze, D I.D doesn't has as much, it is mainly used for damage and not reversal purposes, hotaru SHOULD be able to beat it but this is all hypothetical talk, which isn't what this thread is for technically, it's more for what IS. If hotaru clashes with C I.D, then either jd on reaction or block and wait to punish, I found j.d after clash to be beneficial unless anyone has better advice. Also, depending on the spacing 2b clashes with c i.d.
Sophisticat Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Hop brings you close to Ragna as he's dashing in. Do it right, and you'll Hotaru before he does ID. But yeah, if it clashes, do j.D and you'll beat it. So technically, Hotaru can beat it outright. Or block, make him waste 50 meter (ID rapid), and do Hotaru anyway. Whatever the case, I think we've spent too much time on this one simple issue that mostly only scrub Ragnas will do. I don't think I've ever seen a competent Ragna do this unless he's messing around.
Tachyons Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Hakumen doesn't have anything to force Ragna to not wakeup ID on neutral tech right (like meaties)? So at best I'll condition Ragna into punishing his wakeup ID before I can do anything I want? Or should I just be out of range of the DP and poke him from afar?
dagger_g Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 Can hakumen do anything to punish GH? Maybe IB the first hit and 5a before the second?
psycofang2 Posted October 3, 2010 Posted October 3, 2010 Can hakumen do anything to punish GH? Maybe IB the first hit and 5a before the second? no 5A has too much start up even on IB but you can 6D it off IB. IBing the second hit nullifies his Ds passive abilty to absorb hp and leaves him open for a quick 5A,2A,2B,3C,and 5C into a good combo if you have meter. now it just came to me. i wouldnt advise this and i would just IB the second hit but if the ragna delays the follow up 5A will work inbetween it if you IB the first hit. but thats difficult to tell if they will delay it or not. so do be careful.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Can hakumen do anything to punish GH? Maybe IB the first hit and 5a before the second? 5c is a good punish, be aware of their heat gauge when playing them cus as psycho put it, they may throw you off by going for the second hit. But 5c is a good punish.
psycofang2 Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 Hakumen doesn't have anything to force Ragna to not wakeup ID on neutral tech right (like meaties)? So at best I'll condition Ragna into punishing his wakeup ID before I can do anything I want? Or should I just be out of range of the DP and poke him from afar? well heres a trick. if the ragna is DP happy stay in close but block, i mean get right in front of him and if they DP you can just simply block it, then they are at a severe disadvantage, to the point you can do amost ANYTHING to them. minus 6C type 3, everthing else is a legit option CH 5A>5C>Jc loop. IBing the second hit of ragnas ID gives you more time and better advantages. Or if you IB the second blow and immediately use 5C it will CH them while they are still in air status meaning you will smack them into the ground leading to either his 2B 1 star combo or the enma>JC loop. But remember DO NOT try to punish him on wake up if they are remotely good or ID happy they can get an ID CH meaning terrible damage dealt to you. hakumen doent have too many wake up control tools, and vs a DP trying to pressure their wake up game is not advised. and poking him from afar may seem the safest option but now theres ground between you. vs ragna do not always expect a DP wake up, just simply react to it. or just be prepared for it. now staying afar and poking sets everything back to neut or 0 so either you go to him or (most likely) he will come to you, that then relys on you. EDIT: right it slipped my mind...a fair warning for you. be wary of their heat guage as they may try to ID on wake up and rapid cancel it so if you attempted to punish, you just got baited. so do be careful.
MAdBater Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 is it better to stay ground this match up as hakumen then jumping around? this one guy that has a slightly higher psr that i get matched up to on xbox live aways beats me and it is getting to me. I noticed if i stay on the ground i do better and i can beat him or almost beat him but he or she still has the advantage.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqwO7n2INCc Against ragna and other RTSD oriented characters you need to be more active because otherwise it'll be them rushing in on you and you can't really do anything especially online. Occasionally use 4c (it's not as safe of a move as it looks), more so use jc very close to the ground, it'll punish them trying to get in and very close to the ground will make it harder for ragna to 6a you out of the air. However, don't constantly use jc everytime you jump because otherwise it will get obvious and he'll find a way around it. Also when you jump make sure to barrier everytime since ragna can run in anytime and try an AA on you. Be more on the defensive until you have about 3-4 stars, preferably 4 though, until you see a chance to punish a mistake of his beforehand, in which case 2 stars to be sufficient since you should be able to like a c attack to the enma combo. Online make sure to barrier when ragna's pressure gets too much, it'll push him back allowing you the space to try moves like 5b when an attack whiffs. IAD'ing when he's down and then barrier blocking is a great way to bait dp's on his part, after about 2-3 (pending on the opponent) and punishing him for missed dp's (before going for punishments make sure to observe his heat because he may rc into a jc). He'll become more prudent of firing away a dp, allowing you to play a nice close range frame trap game on ragna. but don't just mash 6a/b, find opportunities to tk moves like tsubaki, and combo with it, preferrably in corners. On wake up I would suggest tk hotaru since it pretty much beats anything ragna can do to you on wake up and if blocked, you can activate a surprise jd, getting hit by either will make ragna more cautious in attacking you during wake up. This should help, playing against ragna is one of my better match ups since, me and my friend constantly play each other.
Sophisticat Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 ^ What he says. I'll just add that you do not want his overheads to hit, so get ready to react. Learn to block/react D his stuff to keep him honest in his offense. Personally, I stay more on the ground because of his strong AA game. If I go to the air, it's to bait something or intercept his air approach. 4c is also not that good here outside of max range because of dash 5b, but he has to respect your hop hotaru and footsies at the same time. Pretty frustrating match, but not as much of a headache as in CT. If your defense is strong, his game weakens. Work on that.
Spark Posted November 14, 2010 Posted November 14, 2010 Updated my write up(On page 2) finally. Although I'm probably still missing stuff.
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