[GGAC] Jam Match-up Thread

[Hintalove]

Thanks, the ball hits meaty so you have to parry that if you're going to try anything, seeing as it eats her dp. I think probably the best course of action is just blocking it and trying to break out near the end, seeing as the move you use after parry might come out on the wrong side/ect. The only real problem I have with the whole thing is there is something subconcious in me that makes me want to stand up to block the ball, even though I don't have to -.- That and I think I can count the amount of times I've blocked tk fb carcass on one hand How do you guys feel about that Cyclone vid? I'm definitely going to practice up the iad dp setups, and I was pretty much already using a lot of the other stuff, except the iad back chojin frc nonsense that looks like a straight 50/50. Last question, though it's kinda out of place, how do you get behind your opponent in the corner if they're stuck on the wall? Ex: I end my combo in fb to knock down and I slide and flip at them. I see people getting behind they're opponent with jd/js in matches but I can never seem to get the corner crossup. What is the secret?

[Sir Phobos]

Last question, though it's kinda out of place, how do you get behind your opponent in the corner if they're stuck on the wall? Ex: I end my combo in fb to knock down and I slide and flip at them. I see people getting behind they're opponent with jd/js in matches but I can never seem to get the corner crossup. What is the secret?

To get behind the opponent while you have them stuck to the wall after an FB Puffball, wait until they almost hit the ground and juggle with the first hit of 2H into 236S-236P. 2H will bring them slightly away from the wall so you can force them to guess which way to block. The tricky part is doing 2H when they are too low in the air to tech. It's easier when you use it after a short combo, of course. If you are getting the regular 236S-P slide instead of Chojin, you're probably crossing them up during the 236S slide. In that case, just use 236S-214P and you should get a Chojin on the other side.

[ryokoalways]

Ok, I need help re-evaluating my Eddie strategy. I am willing to take in any information at this point as I have more or less abandoned my original approach. I spent a week in Japan from 19-26th. On the 25th, I happened across Ogawa in an arcade, and had a few matches against him. Basically in two hours of eddie play, he lost one round total. Other characters not-withstanding, his play was just too safe for Jam to approach. I can't wait little eddie out because he always withdraws it before it runs out. I can't take out little eddie because Ogawa never leaves little eddie defenseless. Instant block works fine at times, but it's high risk just because the timing of his lockdown is optimal every single time. There is no way to counter him either. Ogawa uses a different eddie pressure than all the other eddie I have seen. It's basically susceptible to nothing from Jam that I can tell except parry, and good luck with that one (fuck one up and prepare to die). Just gonna add in the fact that every time he hits me he breaks into huge dmg combos (not those gimpy poke ground ones, he always launched my ass and went into uppercut galore). Basically here is the problem. You can't play patiently because he will come at you. Going for little eddie won't work because he knows how to counter that perfectly (against all chars. Even dizzy couldn't take little eddie out). Can't safe reversal him on wake up because his distance is just outside of your throw range and he has poke/throw and jump baits all over the fucking place (btw, he rarely use eddie's 6k (?) overhead). Waiting out the pressure doesn't work because he is very patient with his offense (patient but still extremely aggresive). For my offense, next to impossible to approach him when he has little eddie out (it has always been hard, but ogawa took this bull shit to the next level). Can't go from the air because 9 out of 10 he will throw you. Even when I manage to get in, his FD play is too good. I was almost always immediately out of my effective range. FB is not all that useful because ogawa is willing to sacrifice little eddie for protection here and he gets a free knockdown (probably the best case scenario really lol). Most of my rounds I got him around 50-80%, a few 30% but no lower. That's only because the few times I manage to crack his defense I made sure I made it count (thank god for Jam's dmg output). But other than that, everything I thought I knew about eddie basically is moot. I don't expect to beat him, but I was nothing more than target practice.

[FlashMetroid]

IMO the jam vs eddie match up is a mixture of RUSH THAT NIGGA DOWN and Risk/Reward When eddie is out you have to play with eddies head basically you to bait him to make little eddie do something(mawaru/nobiru) and then run in 2.d it jc the 2d and then proceed to fuck eddie up for that little amount of time he has no pet Random things that go through my head when im fighting eddie - FB through eddie invincible points to make eddie block and get rid of eddie - Block string into summon eddie into mawaru doesnt work if you use 2p - Mawaru is completely useless on block agianst jam - A really high ad 214K is un 6Pable - Once your inside theres no reason why you shouldnt hit him FRAME TRAP THAT BITCH - IAD back at the beginning of the match card is a free card unless he move forward at the beginning which eddie wont do most likely - Eddies hit box is FREE theres no reason to scale your damage when you hit him by doing K in your wall loop you should be doing on 2hs, 6hs, hs If eddie isnt out the match becomes a 0-10 match up in jams favor eddie flat out stands no chance while eddie is put away FD should mean absolutely nothing to you as a Jam player FD is a joke against jam

[ryokoalways]

I used most of those approach already. Problem is 1. He doesn't bite on baits. 2. His pressure is different. I tried a few type of poke outs against the two hit thing, but I get hit every time and he immediately launches me and start uppercut me to death. His pressure string is strange. IIRC the variation consists of a lot of the deflector and 2h. I'd think that would make it easier to escape but for some reason he times it so I am basically completely locked down. I'm sure there is a window, I just don't have any idea where it is. He may be in control of it. 3. 214k was 100% useless. the lower ones, he air threw me. The high ones, he jumped and IB then ground threw me. No 6p, just throws. 4. I didn't go for the free card thing very much. I started out by trying to go at him as hard as I can. Worked decently, all depends if I can out-execute him. If not, then I'm boned. 5. yeah eddie is easy to combo. The chance I got were just ridiculously few. As for without little eddie, ogawa is still really scary even without it. He saves his tension for only two things (I don't know if this is the norm. I never really paid attention till this time); FB drill for dmg, or regular drill FRC for lockdown when he doesn't have little eddie. His defense is really good, very hard to attack when little eddie is out, but his defense isn't overly dependent on little eddie unlike most eddie players. He also won't shy away from attacking just because little eddie isn't out. Of course, it a hell lot easier when it's not out to match him, but still pretty difficult. For the FD thing, care to explain? Anything outside of p and k and i'm way out of range after it lands. Eddie's best pokes, while a bit slower, outranges Jam's.

[FlashMetroid]

As a jam player you should learn how to basically negate FD using speed and gaps

[ryokoalways]

I know how to an extent. I just couldn't against ogawa. Usually frame trapping still works if I play the FD correctly, but I couldn't lock him down whatsoever. I guess that's not really a character match up question though. As for why I couldn't I really don't know. Without a video of some sort I can't really show it.

[demongodcrush]

I know this has been discussed before but Ky is still giving me a hard time. I can't get in on him for some reason and I get an air combo each time I attempt to. Plus his lock down game seems to be a lot better than mine .

Of course i'm talking about AlphaKami's Ky cause only he can do this to me with Ky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWLZ8o9ZVeE&NR=1

[Doren2k]

Ky is pretty easy for jam. You can't come in through the air because 6p and 2hs will beat all your air moves. So just be patient and wait for the ky to throw a fireball or for them to do something dumb. If they throw fireball That's your chance to either IAD over it or HS ball through it to get in. Once your in its free 2s rapes Ky. You can bait Vt with your sweep it'll whiff. AAing Ky is free with close slash or 6p into big damage. Against Ky's cse on Oki if it hits in the middle of the projectile you can parry and then 6p through the rest of the cse. But it can be beaten so don't abuse it. Also you can fb ball through stun edges during strings.

[Hintalove]

One thing you have to be careful about with Ky is that if you get predictable with fb/slide he can just stundipper when he sees it comming. In the video you linked you look a little confused, and by that I mean you land multiple ch 2s's and just let him stagger out. Besides that, I would stop using 2d as an opener at the start of the round :P

[FlashMetroid]

I know how to an extent. I just couldn't against ogawa. Usually frame trapping still works if I play the FD correctly, but I couldn't lock him down whatsoever. I guess that's not really a character match up question though. As for why I couldn't I really don't know. Without a video of some sort I can't really show it.

It sounds to me like you were losing because your frame trapping ability just werent good enough not because of match up experience your not gonna be able to properly frame trap or properly bait someone whos just flat out better then you no matter how hard you try

I guess you just gotta step that game up

I know this has been discussed before but Ky is still giving me a hard time. I can't get in on him for some reason and I get an air combo each time I attempt to. Plus his lock down game seems to be a lot better than mine .

Of course i'm talking about AlphaKami's Ky cause only he can do this to me with Ky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWLZ8o9ZVeE&NR=1

You dont seem to do anything but jump around and try to land random IADs.......

Watch jam vids and actually look at what they do they dont jump around waiting for a good time to AD in and hope they land a hit

Also you werent teching any of the combos they were all black....

[demongodcrush]

One thing you have to be careful about with Ky is that if you get predictable with fb/slide he can just stundipper when he sees it comming. In the video you linked you look a little confused, and by that I mean you land multiple ch 2s's and just let him stagger out. Besides that, I would stop using 2d as an opener at the start of the round :P

Yeah I didn't know what to do towards the end of the last round because I didn't know what he was planning. I've been trying out all kinds of ways to get the first hit since this tournament was held and I won't be doing that anymore.

You dont seem to do anything but jump around and try to land random IADs.......

Watch jam vids and actually look at what they do they dont jump around waiting for a good time to AD in and hope they land a hit

Also you werent teching any of the combos they were all black....

I noticed that I didn't follow up after that stagger after a couple of replays and feel stupid for not doing so. Recently i've started to watch the more famous Jam player match vids and i'm starting to notice holes in my game. All that jumping at the end wasn't any plan to get by with an iad I just plainly didn't know what to do.

During my recent trip into training mode i've found out a little something that you guys may or may not know about. If any opponent is blocking as they land Jam can negate their block and get a free hit in.

[pbjmixxa]

... unless they FD!

[ryokoalways]

It sounds to me like you were losing because your frame trapping ability just werent good enough not because of match up experience your not gonna be able to properly frame trap or properly bait someone whos just flat out better then you no matter how hard you try

I guess you just gotta step that game up

That about sums up this discussion correctly.

One last thing, if Ogawa has a weakness, it's that he is easily throw baitable (comparitively to other things you try to do to him), probably because he is really confident in his timing, that and Eddie has no other reliable defensive options. Not saying you should whore 6h out, but when in doubt, good way to go.

[FlashMetroid]

Frame trapping is always the best option because theres literally nothing he can do it about it at evo world I was playing gibson and when I would get inside the match was usually over and when I play ogawa I expect the same Throw baiting is a pretty damn cheap because you either get 6hs or a grab but if your going for a throw bait and he sees it coming he can just jump and js, jhs, land 2p, 2d and then your in trouble if he doesnt jump then hes pretty much in the worst situation possible unless he mashes on punch

[Hideki]

What do you mean exactly by "Frame Trapping"?

[xenophobian]

"first you got to set a trap...a net, or dig a hole and cover it up with leaves, you get the idea. then you need a frame bait, lure that fucker ! and with enough patience you´ll catch that goddamn frame !" i come from a long line of frametrappers myself, this is what my granddad used to say to me when i was a kid !

[ryokoalways]

at evo world I was playing gibson and when I would get inside the match was usually over and when I play ogawa I expect the same

Heh I don't know. I have experience playing AKA and cue (albeit only for a few days), also the team leader of Taiwan's SBO team (eddie obviously). Ogawa was something else entirely. Use those as benchmarks I suppose, of course they are probably still not very accurate.

[FlashMetroid]

yea im sure overall it was something else entirely but once you pinned them down everyone becomes the same person if you play her properly.....they become an eddie player desperate to escape and they shouldnt be able too

[Kyle]

Sup Jam players,

I have written a guide to tackling your hoe and I would appreciate some input.

Did I cover what needs to be said?

Does May have any advantages I didn't point out?

What is it that Jam hates MOST about May?

Guide HERE.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3666

Post Replies HERE.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3120

Thanks Everyone,

Kyle

[pbjmixxa]

What is it that Jam hates MOST about May?

H counters! ... oh wait, everyone hates those!!!

[ryokoalways]

any H basically, Jam can't go air-to-ground very well and 5h is great in that situation. Then there is the jh spammage that is a great trade in May's favor. 2h Occationally can get annoying too but that's not too big of an issue comparatively. Basically any h would result in a good amount of damage on Jam, and knockdown. 3k is the least of our concerns in my opinion, unless the Jam play just brainlessly throw out 236s.

[Darkhonor90]

3k is the least of our concerns in my opinion, unless the Jam play just brainlessly throw out 236s.

Isnt that what Jam does:psyduck:

[Hintalove]

Yes, mediocre Jams.

[demongodcrush]

Fellow Jam players i'm in need of your advice.Got a huge MM in 2 months and need to get extremely cold. What are your recommendations?