[CS1] Litchi Fresh Meat buns Thread (Guide and Combo Discussion)

[Lord Knight]

As usual, this guide assumes that you already know and understand the basics of BB, as well as Litchi's specific notation discussed here: http://dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6324. If you are new to Litchi, PLEASE read that thread first.

Normals

----------------------------

Mantenbou

5A - One of the decent 5A's, reaches out in front of her head. Works as a decent anti-air.

2A - Buffed from CT. Now chains into 5B[m] with no problems.

6A[m] - Buffed from CT. Much safer on block, and ground bounces on hit. Still retains it's dual hitbox property, but loses its manten return state. Has Fatal Counter properties.

5B[m] - More or less the same as CT. Still loses to sliding moves, and still one of her best pokes. This move is jump cancellable on block.

2B[m] - Buffed from CT, this move is now considered low profile, meaning you can duck under a lot of things you couldn't before in CT. Thanks to 6B[m] being jump cancellable, you can now easily combo out of this move.

6B[m] - Buffed from CT, it is now jump cancellable on hit. TK itsuuB or C after hitting this move. Still wall bounces on CH.

BE6B[m] - Feint. Can still be used the same as CT, but loses its usefulness a bit with 5D and 2D being sped up.

5C[m] - Horizontal extension of the mantenbou, cancellable on either hit. Pretty much the same as CT, except you want to try to avoid hitconfirming into this move.

2C[m] - Crazy buffed from CT. Decent anti-air, great anti-jump. Starting a combo off this move guarantees huge damage and meter gain.

6C[m] - Takes off a guard primer. Lost its manten return state, but it's special cancellable. You don't see much of this move outside of keeping people honest after 6B.

3C[m] - Lost it's manten return state, but it's special cancellable. Basically you can do the old CT combos off this move.

J.A - Good, fast normal. Use this when they're above you.

J.B[m] - Ooooooh man this move is amazing, one of the staples of her game. Full split kick, with the mantenbou spinng in an oval around her legs, hits ABSURDLY beneath and above her legs. Great move to space with and get random hits. Jump around and hit this button a lot, please. Note, the best way to space this move is around her thighs/knees, that's where it looks like the Mantenbou is spinning.

J.C[m] - Her air to air. This move is great if people are getting around your JB[m] spacing by just jumping at you and hitting fast close range moves, and this move will piss them off. On CH, like 6B[m], she gets untechable wallbounce. However it doesn't hit below her at all, so be careful.

J.5D[m] - Shoots the mantenbou down at an awkward angle. Not much use to this move, not RC'able, but it does beat lame 6A anti air's all day. Launching the mantenbou with D after this move will make it fly low across the ground.

J.2D[m] - Shoots the mantenbou straight down. If you somehow crossup with this move, it has a 2nd hit (her heel). When you launch the mantenbou with D after this move, it will make it fly up into the air, then loop back to you.

6D[m] - A charge shoulder tackle. Sets staff in 5D orientation.

4D[m] - Overhead kick that sets staff in 2D orientation. It's possible to do a special on hit or block after hitting with this move.

5D[m] - Places the staff on the ground. If you launch the mantenbou with D after this move, it will make it fly up into the air, then loop back to you.

2D[m] - Places the staff on the ground. Slower than 5D[m]. If you launch the mantenbou with D after this move, it will make it fly low across the ground.

------------------------------

SPECIALS

Tsubame Gaeshi - 623D[m] - Litchi's DP. This move is weaker than it was in CT. The move is rather hard to combo off of. Again, it's best to use this move when they are directly in front of you for best results. Sets the staff in 5D trajectory.

Itsuu (Ikkitsuukan) - 426D~x[m] - Litchi's guard stance. Relatively the same as CT. The A followup hits up in the air, the B followup goes horizontal on the ground, the C followup pokes the ground. Unlike CT, you can combo off of all the followups. In CS, she gained a D followup, which lets her cancel the stance.

Daisangen (Haku Hatsu Chun) - 236A 236B 236C Litchi's rekkas. Pretty much unchanged from CT. Haku is a low slide, hatsu is a aerial kick (that can be used as a ghetto anti-air/air-to-air) and chun is an overhead that goes over lows. Hatsu and chun now have repeated move proration.

Shishin - 426D - Is now 7 hits instead of 4. This move is a staff whirlwind that follows the manten trajectory.

Kokushi Musou - 6246D - This distortion drive has several uses. It can be used for oki off certain combo enders. Because it has 20% minimum damage, it's common for it to be used as a combo ender for a game winning combo.

Daisharin - 6246D[m] - This is the go-to distortion used in oki almost all the time. It can also be combo'd into very easily.

Ryuuisou - 6428C - Litchi can use this distortion in either mode. Great as a counter super, good at stopping people from acting full screen.

Riichi - 624A/B/C - Litchi's staffless specials. The A followup has Litchi jump at the staff. The B followup has Litchi jump at the staff and fling it, this is +12 on block is very friendly on CH. The C followup Litchi will jump at the staff and fling herself off it.

Ippatsu A/B/C - Litchi's followup to RiichiA. The A followup is a quick kick, the B followup is a falling Hatsu and the C followup is a falling Chun.

447 - Command backdash. Renders Litchi airborne. You can do a jB at the end or airdash out of it if you choose.

Kote Gaeshi - 623D/421D - Changes the position of the staff. Useful to extend pressure and in combos. In CS, you can actually change the staff's trajectory, 6Kote will switch to 5D trajectory, 4Kote will switch to 2D trajectory.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Lord Knight

[Lord Knight]

COMBOS

Litchi's combos in CS are drastically different from CT. However, if you think about it like CT corner itsuu combos, you can piece together full combos off any random hit. While doing this, be aware of the proration on the normals you use at the beginning of the combo because it ties in with how long you can go.

When Litchi is holding the staff, she has to worry about 5 different zones on the screen to optimize her combos. Effectively though, you can narrow this further down into 3 groups - Midscreen, Near Corner and Corner (just like CT!).

Note that this section is only going to include current combos. I f you don't really understand Litchi yet or you can't hit these combos, ATGMantenbou's combo video has good, easy combos. If I included everything this post would never end

How to use this combo section

In order to save space, I've split Litchi's combos into parts. At the beginning of every section, I've listed the most common opener. I'll put the actual chunk of the combo, and then if there is some common part used elsewhere, I'll put a different tag - just go to that section to see that part. This not only saves space, but is actually practical since you'll need to be able to transition in between the different parts of her combos easily to be effective. At the end, you'll be able to piece something together like this:

5B 2C itsuuA 6kote haku hatsu riichiA ippatsuA ippatsuB(opener) 2D j.BC staff2 dash 6C(1)(2D combo) itsuuA 4kote dash 3C sj.8C falling jC(corner combo) itsuuC j8C 6kote falling j.C 3C Kokushi Musou (ender)

2D Combos

-------------------------------

5B 2C itsuuA 6Kote Haku Hatsu riichiA ippatsuA ippatsuB 2D

-This is the starter used everywhere for this combo except the corner. If you hit with 5B[m] far enough, you need to do dash 6Kote (input as 6623D) or dash Haku (2366A) to correct it. This combo covers a lot of distance on its own - normally by the time you'll advance into another part of the screen by the time you hop off the staff.

[opener] 2D j.BC land staff2 6C(2) itsuuC [D] j.C ]D[ airdash j.C staff2 [ender]

-Probably the easiest 2D combo. The farther away you are from the corner, the more you'll have to delay j.C after j.B. Be sure to wait until AFTER you let go of D to airdash or else you'll drop the combo. When you do airdash j.C, just use advance input to make sure you don't drop it.

[opener] 2D j.BC land staff2 6C(2) itsuuC [D] sj.BC ]D[ airdash j.C staff2 [ender]

-Higher damage variation of the above. Input sj properly so you don't get sjHatsu.

[opener] 2D j.BC land staff2 6C(1) itsuu *delay* A 4kote dash 3C 2D 6C(2) staff2 6C(2) [ender]

-Technically this is a bit easier than the above combos, but it's actually less stable.

[opener] 2D j.BC land staff2 dash 6C(1) [corner][ender]

-Goes straight into corner combo.

[opener] 2D j.Hatsu j.Chun staff2 dash 6C(1) itsuu *delay* A 4Kote 3C 2D j.C staff2 dj falling j.C land [ender]

-This combo is a bit more practical the farther away you are from the corner since j.Hatsu j.Chun advances Litchi a lot. The farther away you are from the corner, the more you delay j.Chun (it's not too much though).

[opener] 2D j.Hatsu j.Chun staff2 dash 6C(2) itsuuC [d] j.C ]d[ airdash j.C land [ender]

-Carries all the way to the corner. Like above, make sure to use advance input when you do airdash j.C or you'll definitely drop this.

[opener] 2D j.Hatsu j.Chun staff2 dash 6C(2) itsuuC [d] sj.BC ]d[ airdash j.C land [ender]

-With this varient, you have to make sure to input sj.B properly as well as advance input your j.C post airdash, but the damage is worth it.

[opener] 2D j.Hatsu j.Chun staff2 dash 6C(1) itsuuA [corner][ender]

-Goes straight into corner combo.

[opener] 2D iad j.C staff2 land dash 6C(1) itsuuA [corner combo][ender]

-If your airdash carries you into/very close to the corner, this will work. Go straight into sj corner combo or Itsuu loop. Note that if you're close enough to the corner you can just do j.C instead of iad j.C.

[opener] 2D iad j.C staff2 land dash [A+B]6C(1) itsuuA [corner combo][ender]

-This varient works when you misjudge the spacing for iad j.C and end up being too far out of the corner.

ItsuuC combos

Try not to go into these off jumpins. If for some reason 5C[m] hits or you need an easy hitconfirm, use these combos.

5B 5C(2) 3C itsuuC

-Likely your most common opener. If for some reason you start off a jump in, try to omit 3C or do 5C(1) so that the proration doesn't ruin the combo.

[opener]sjChun 2C j.BCD airdash j.C staff2 6C [ender]

-This still works for you lazy people. Common midcreen combo.

[opener][d] j.C ]d[ Hatsu Chun staff2 6C(1) itsuuA 4kote 3C 2D j.BC staff2 6C(2)

-Full screen combo.

[opener][d] dash sj j.BC ]d[ airdash j.C staff2 6C(2) 6D(1) itsuuC j9C 4Kote falling jC 3C 2D 6C(2)

-Another choice for going into the corner.

[opener][d] j.C ]D[ dj falling j.C land staff2 6C(1) itsuuA 4kote 3C 2D j.C dj staff2 falling j.C [ender]

-Used for going into the corner.

[opener] 6kote [itsuu loop or sj Combo][ender]

-Possible near corner. when farther out of the corner, dash Hatsu can be inputted as 2366B or just use 6623D for dash 6kote.

[opener] j.BC land 5C j.BC dj j.D falling j.C [ender]

-Possible in the corner or coming from outside of the corner.

Throw

6Throw(1) ItsuuA [2D combo][ender]

4Throw ItsuuA [2D combo][ender]

(Staffless)6throw(1) Chun 5B~

-Going to have to freestyle this one a bit. What is possible depends on where the staff is when you throw them and how it is set.

Airthrow land 5C[m](2) itsuuA [2D Combo][ender]

Airthrow land 2B[m] itsuuA [2D Combo][ender]

Airthrow land 2C[m] ItsuuA [2D Combo][Ender]

-If you use this variation, you have to catch their ground bounce.

Airthrow falling j.C land 5B itsuuA [2D combo][Ender]

(Staffless)Airthrow falling jC 5C~

-Like the staffless throw, you'll have to freestyle this completely, depending where you are on the screen and where the staff is.

[Lord Knight]

CORNER COMBOS

Litchi currently has 4 different corner combos. They tend to build on each other a bit, and each one is a bit harder than the previous (for different reasons). All these combos assume you're starting with [opener] from the above post, which is:

5B[m] 2C[m] itsuuA 6Kote Haku Hatsu riichiA ippatsuA

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[opener] j.7C dash 5C j.BC land 5C j.BC 4kote falling j.C 3C 2D 6C [ender]

The very basic combo. Pretty much an extension of CT combos. You want to surpass this as quickly as possible.

[opener] j.7C dash 5C 2D slight delay rising j.C staff2 2C[m] itsuuA 4kote 3C 2D[ender]

The first true CS corner combo. More damaging than the above, and more stylish too. You'll want to be able to at least do this combo.

[opener] j.7C dash 2B 2C 2D slight delay rising j.C staff2 2C[m] itsuuA 4kote 3C 2D [ender]

Use this variation on Carl/Noel/Lambda/Hazama.

[opener] j.7D falling j.C staff2 6B/dash 6C(1)/dash [4/1A+B] 2C[m] itsuuA 6Kote 5C 2D slight delay rising j.C land staff2 (optional [4/1A+B]) 2C[m] itsuuA [ender]

Itsuu loop. Off 2C[m] starter you get an extra rep of 2C[m] itsuuA 6kote etc. For more details, see this thread: http://dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8796

[opener] j.7D falling j.C staff2 6B/dash 6C(1)/Dash [4/1A+B] 2C[m] itsuuA 4kote 5C/2C/3C 2D sj.9C j.B whiff falling j.C [ender]

SJ combo aka H.H combo. 5C and 2C are character dependant, but 3C works on everyone. I don't know the damage differences, but I can assume that putting in the 5C/2C does more damage than 3C (slightly, but it matters). The super jump jC is FAST. You will drop this 100 percent if you don't do it on the way up. The j.B whiff is to help with timing the second j.C, it's not needed.

[opener] j.7D falling j.C staff2 6B/dash 6C(1)/dash [4/1A+B] 2C[m] itsuuA 4kote 5C/2C/3C 2D j.C dj falling j.C [ender]

Variation of the above. Helps with consistency against Hazama, Noel, Lambda and Carl.

[opener] j.7D falling j.C staff2 6B/dash 6C(1)/dash [4/1A+B] 2C[m] itsuuA 4kote dash 5C/2C/3C 2D sj.8C j.B whiff falling j.C [ender]

This variation helps people who can't do/have low success rate with the sj.9C. However, it's still important to learn the sj.9C version because you can do some combos with it outside of the corner. The dash 5C/2C/3C must be quick - they won't be in OTG state for long.

ENDERS

Generally, once you optimize your combos, you'll always end your combos with corner knockdown. These assume you're all the way in the corner (more likely than not)

[2D Combo] 6C(2) ItsuuC j.8C 6Kote falling j.C land 3C Kokushi

Ender for any of the airdash ender combos from the 2D section.

[2D Combo] 6C(2) Daisharin (133333)

This notation gives oki, but you can continue to combo if it will finish them.

[basic corner combo]itsuuC 6C(2) 6D[m] Daisharin (133333)

Used after 3C 2D. This notation gives oki, but you can continue to combo if it will finish them.

[basic corner combo]itsuuC 6C(2) 6kote backstep

This prevents them from rolling out, and the staff is in front of them. Doing a high/low right away will set them up for another combo.

[itsuu loop] 4Kote 3C 2D 6C(2) Daisharin (133333)

An ender for itsuu loop. Execute Daisharin while you are still in the air. The Daisharn input here is listed for oki - if you want to kill, use one of the Daisharin enders listed in the Meter ender section.

[itsuu loop] 6kote 5C j.8C 6kote falling j.C 3C Kokushi

Kokushi Musou ender off itsuu loop.

[sJ Combo] land itsuuC j8C 6kote falling j.C 3C Kokushi

Kokushi Musou ender off super jump combo.

[sJ Combo] land itsuuC [d] j.C dj ]D[ falling j.C 6D[m] Daisharin (133333)

Daisharin ender off super jump combo.

[sJ Combo] land 6A[m] 2C Tsubame 3C Kokushi

-Alternate Kokushi route. Tsubame gives a lot of meter.

[Lord Knight]

4D[M] COMBOS

MIDSCREEN

4d[m] 4kote falling j.B 2C 3C 2D j.BC staff2 6C itsuuC [D] rising j.C ]D[ airdash j.C staff2 6C(2) [ender]

4d[m] 4kote falling j.B 3C 2D hatsu chun staff2 6B itsuuA 4kote 5C/2C/3C 2D j.BC airdash j.BC staff2 6C(2) [ender]

4d[m] 4kote falling j.B 3C 2D hatsu chun staff2 5B[m]/2c[m] itsuuA 4kote 3C 2D hatsu chun 6c(1) itsuuA 4kote 3C 2D 6C(2) 6C(2) [ender]

-Variant of the above. Adjust depending on spacing as usual.

CORNER

4D[m] 4kote j.B 2C 3C 2D sj.C j.B(whiffs) falling j.C 6A[m] 2C itsuuA 4Kote 3C 2D sj.C j.B(whiffs) falling j.C [ender]

MISC

Here will include

J.C[m] CH/5A anti air CH/6B[m] CH/ItsuuB combos/6D[m] Combos/How to combo properly off 5D set

[Lord Knight]

OKIZEME/UKEMI

-In CS, thanks to Litchi's high meter gain, she gets to use her strongest options off almost any corner knockdown. In general, her combos end in 2 ways:

1) Staffless Litchi pushed out far from the corner while the opponent is knocked down in the corner.

2) Litchi with staff/retrieving staff, both of them in/near the corner.

In the first situation, you'd use Kokushi, in the latter you would use Daisharin. Should they attempt to roll out of your Kokushi setup, they will end up in front of you, with Kokushi active behind them. You can actually hit them out of the roll, which will combo with the super.

Daisharin requires a bit of judgement to use depending on how far away you are from the corner. Generally there are three ways to input for ukemi punish and oki.

1) 133333

2) 233333

3) 333333

Again these depend on how far you are from the corner. The one you'll use the most for sure is the first - it is used with 6D Daisharin ender and 6C(2) Daisharin ender. The second option is probably the least used, as it's only used if you're somehow awkwardly positioned in a way that the first cannot be used. The last option is used if you are far from the corner - the distance you would normally be for a Kokushi setup.

Now, once you have them blocking either super, you have a ton of options. You have multiple attempts to high/low them. 6A and 5A 3C are the easiest high/low options, though you have others. For example, you can jump > land 2B or jump > late airdash jC.

SECRET TECHNIQUES

• Kara throw

  Performed with 2C~B or 6C~B. When done properly, extends the range of her throw substantially.

• Glide Throw

  Performed with airdash j2D~B+C in [m], airdash jD~B+C without. When done properly, instead of airdashing forward, she'll fall to the ground quickly while going forward. Best used for baiting anti-airs/DP's and manuvering through projectiles.

• Barrier Return

  Performed by holding Barrier (1A+B or 4A+B) while the staff is returning. When done properly, the staff will be returned faster to Litchi. Used in combos, but can be used in neutral as well.

[TD]

Can we post now? o.o

Wow Litchi's combos are so mad long now, l thought it was long in CT my goodness.

l love how shishin does 7 hits now, that means it should have longer active frames and could probably save your ass more than tsubame.

[Lord Knight]

Since I opened in it, people could post in it

The main problem I was having was I had no idea how to actually post the combos.

[Urichinan]

I love the fact her 5D staff orientation actually has a use other than being a way to cover the air. =^-^=

I also LOVE those 2D combos! Also did they change the All Green input? It was 6428C and you have 6248C.

[TD]

Since I opened in it, people could post in it

The main problem I was having was I had no idea how to actually post the combos.

lol

Well that's because Litchi's combo's look very freaking hard now and shave a good 20 seconds off the time. She's going to be reeeeeeally annoying l see.

But yeah it's not that hard now that everyone knows her moveset? Also, l've seen litchi gained a new overhead and some sort of tackle with staff... am l right/what are those?

[severin]

something absolutely hilarious for the 4D section.

(cornered opponent)

4D 6Kote Hatsu Haku Chun 5B Hatsu riichiiA ippatsuA ippatsuB 6B 2D rising j.C land 2C ittsuA j.B j.C 6Kote falling j.C 5C 2D rising j.C 6C Daisharin (133333)

4.2k

[lunaris]

i'd post combos but i'm not really sure how much you're accepting/how often you're willing to edit in.

also, correct me if i'm wrong but 4d and 6d are still unlisted among litchi's normals. i think it would also be beneficial to write about the frame advantage/disadvantage of 6d and 4d in their move description(with itsuu and kote, respectively, factored in) since it's not easy to figure out for a new player(or even most intermediates) and yet it's really valuable information.

also, posting a link to her hitbox data(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NXCHdCWIHM) seems like a good idea.

(cornered opponent)

4D 6Kote Hatsu Haku Chun 5B Hatsu riichiiA ippatsuA ippatsuB 6B 2D rising j.C land 2C ittsuA j.B j.C 6Kote falling j.C 5C 2D rising j.C 6C Daisharin (133333)

4.2k

i don't think you can do ippatsuB>6b, or even ippatsuA>ippatsuB, on a cornered opponent and keep them in the corner unless the staff is actually a fair distance from the corner. in other words, that combo doesn't work if you're close enough to the corner for 6kote to put your staff in the corner. or is there something character specific about this that i don't know about? at the very least it's an important note to make.

and not to nitpick, but you can add in a 6kote 2c after itsuuA. it's has some significance because it allows players to choose between 4kote and 6kote on the following j.c(since the staff is put closer to the corner/ground before it).

[Lord Knight]

Lunaris any help you can give, please PM or something.

Even though I'm starting this, my understanding of her parts combo completely, I've just been posting what I do

[lunaris]

you said to pm, but i feel i have to post this in case it hasn't been seen. excuse the long post. hopefully i'm not posting something already well known...

awhile ago in this forum i posted something about a full screen(back to the wall) combo from 4d that i hadn't seen anywhere else(including the jp wiki, but maybe it has it now). i've developed it into a standard combo part.

general formula:

anything>staff1>hatsu>delay>chun>staff2>5b[m]/2c[m]>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>hatsu>chun>6c>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>6c>6c>ender

(many adjustments possible, such as haku before first hatsu, 6c(1)>tsubame ender, etc)

comparing it to the "normal" combo part(...>j.c>j.d>airdash>staff1>j.c>staff2>6c>itsuuC>5d>jump>j.c>fall>6c>6c or some variant), it does considerably more damage. off a 6throw with your back to the wall, my version does 2900, the "normal" one does 2100. i'm not sure about the difference in meter gain.

looks pretty ridiculous in writing as it's basically a fullscreen itsuuA loop, but it's usable off a number of different things. most importantly it's an easy go-to combo if you see your drive attack hit an airborne opponent as hatsu is fairly fast and covers a lot of area(i.e., you simply run at your opponent and use hatsu once you see they were hit by your drive--this works well against opponents who like to pressure you with aerials in the corner).

the middle and ending parts can be adjusted based on distance from the corner and starter(from 6throw, for example, it has to end in tsubame iirc), but the basic staff1>hatsu>delay>chun>staff2>5b[m]>itsuuA part itself works up until about midscreen based on how long you delay chun, so it's a fairly versatile combo part and does high damage.

the combo(or combo part, at least) listed in the paragraph above is worth including at some point in the guide. it seems to be her highest damage method of comboing with your back to the wall out of many of her staffless attacks with the staff nearby, and more importantly is an easy solution to the conundrum of how to combo reliably out of an anti-air drive hit.

anyhow, unless people agree that this is reasonably major, i'd try to keep things more significant(or less wordy/complicated?) than that. for example, i see you're missing a high-damage ender/combo part(itsuua>4kote>3c>2d>staff1>hj.c>staff2>falling j.c>6a[m]>2c[m]>tsubame) and the easiest method of comboing out of kokushi musou(kokushi>2b[m](has equal proration to 2c)>etc) in the corner. i'd imagine there's a lot that simply hasn't been listed because there's so much to list; your work on the list thus far is appreciated. i don't think i'd know where to start.

as an example of a complete combo, i'll post the highest damage i've found off of 4d[m] with your back to the wall(it will differ slightly from the general formula given above):

4d[m]>6kote>j.b>land>2c>3c>2d>staff1>dash>hatsu>delay>chun>staff2>2c[m]>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>staff1>hatsu>chun>staff2>6c(1)>tsubame (~3280)

there are easier methods as well for a little less(200~?) damage, but this is about 400-500 higher than the highest damage combo listed on the jp wiki(and that ends with jbcb hatsu chun).

using this, i can get 4000 off of random 6d[m] hits as well(itsuu cancelled or not).

[Lord Knight]

Is 2C character specific during itsuu loop?

Also I'll definitely try that 4D[m] combo. The most recent one's I've been doing is midscreen:

4d[m] 4kote j.B 2C 3C 2D dash j.B delay j.C staff2 6C(2) itsuuC [D] j.C ]D[ airdash j.C staff2 6C(2) 6D daisharin

and corner:

4D[m] 4kote j.B 3C 2D rising j.BC staff2 2C[m] itsuuA 6kote 5C 2D slight delay rising j.C staff2 2C[m] itsuuA 6kote 5C 2D slight delay rising j.C staff2 6C daisharin

I'll test the above and add it to the combo list. Does anyone know offhand how much H.H 4d[m] midscreen combo does? It uses a similar formula but doesn't use hatsu chun twice in one combo, and I believe it has staff 2D set the entire time.

[lunaris]

Is 2C character specific during itsuu loop?

not that i know of. it works on lamda, and i can't see it any reason for it to fail on other characters, so i haven't thoroughly tested(i don't have any other competition anyways) yet.

Also I'll definitely try that 4D[m] combo. The most recent one's I've been doing is midscreen:

4d[m] 4kote j.B 2C 3C 2D dash j.B delay j.C staff2 6C(2) itsuuC [D] j.C ]D[ airdash j.C staff2 6C(2) 6D daisharin

you can make my version of the combo considerably easier by using 6c(1)(instead of 2c[m]) before itsuuA and adding haku at the start(haven't tested if you can add haku if you use 2c[m]). not sure about the meter difference, but the damage difference is small with haku.

but remember it's more of a combo part than anything else. it works off of a lot of starters, such as 4d[m], 6d[m], 5a>5b>3c, j.c>5b>3c, 3c[m]>itsuuC>d, any 5d aerial hit, etc. with your back to the corner and a little past midscreen(with some adjustments).

the combo you posted looks pretty good, but i prefer the haku>chun method because any combo which relies on j.c>staff2 is substantially more spatially restricted and harder against lamda than other characters. also, haku>chun can be delayed a considerable amount of time, making it usable from full screen all the way to slightly past midscreen.

and corner:

4D[m] 4kote j.B 3C 2D rising j.BC staff2 2C[m] itsuuA 6kote 5C 2D slight delay rising j.C staff2 2C[m] itsuuA 6kote 5C 2D slight delay rising j.C staff2 6C daisharin

as to the 4d[m] corner combo, i'm fairly certain that in the corner, an ippatsu combo is always going to do more damage than any other option since ippatsuA has positive proration.

for example:

[corner]4d[m]>6kote>j.b>haku>hatsu>ippatsuA>7jc>5.d>j.c>dash>crouch barrier>2c[m]>itsuuA>6kote>5c>2d>staff1>j.c>staff2>2c[m]>itsuuA>ender

max i've done is ~4k, the reason this is good is because it allows 2 reps of itsuuA, unlike most 4d[m] corner combos involving her rekkas.

Does anyone know offhand how much H.H 4d[m] midscreen combo does? It uses a similar formula but doesn't use hatsu chun twice in one combo, and I believe it has staff 2D set the entire time.

i'm not sure what you're talking about by the H.H combo, but i'm going to assume it's something like this if it's a midscreen 4d[m] combo using haku>chun:

4d[m]>4kote>j.b>5b>3c>2d>staff1>haku>delayed chun>staff2>2c[m]>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>staff1>j.c(dash optional)>djc>staff2>j.c>itsuuC>j.c>4kote>falling j.c>3c>6c>6d

3367(daisharin ender possible)

if you add in the ender that i described in the third to last paragraph in my previous post, be sure to note that one of the reasons it's strong is because you can use 8 for the super jump at the end, which positions you such that if you decide to end in 3c>kokushi(or just kokushi), the opponent can't tech roll out because you're blocking the way. here's a more complete notation:

X>itsuuA>4kote>3c>2d>staff1>8hj.c>staff2>falling j.c>6a[m]>2c[m]>tsubame>3c

notes: also possible when using itsuuC in the corner, subtracting the itsuuA>4kote>3c. 2c[m] is sometimes not possible based on proration. 8hj version appears to be somewhat character specific; tsubame/falling j.c doesn't seem to connect on litchi, haven't tested carl(or anyone but lamda/litchi). but, 9hj can be used as well, although it allows them to roll out of kokushi. this is the highest damage ender i know if you can't use the 6kote>2c>jc>j.b>j.c>etc ender.

as a final note, you may want to add in that it's far easier to use 2c instead of 5c after itsuuA>6kote against some characters(litchi especially) when doing itsuuA corner combos.

EDIT: i'm pretty glad i posted this here, because from your info on your corner combo i found that you can combo directly from j.b to 3c if you use 4kote instead of 6kote after 4d[m], which is better due to less proration. so now, the combo is:

4d[m]>4kote>j.b>3c>2d>staff1+haku>hatsu>chun>2c[m]>same as listed before (now 3347)

i also tested ryuuisou after the tsubame in the 4d[m] combo, and the combo then does a little over 3700. it would do ~4120 if you could connect with 2 ryuuisous, which might be possible if close enough to the corner after tsubame. i did find that double ryuuisou combos are possible in this combo if the combo has enough proration to end in the itsuuA>4kote version(so, you'd do itsuuA>ryuuisou>dash ryuuisou for ~800-1k more damage at the end depending on proration).

[Lord Knight]

Interesting developments actually.

For reference, the combo I was referring to was:

4D[m] 4kote j.B 2C 3C 2D hatsu delay chun staff2 6C(1) itsuuA 4kote dash 3C 2D j.BC staff2 6C(1) Tsubame Kokushi

The beginning combo part is actually pretty much the same as yours, but I haven't seen the second part in matches at all. For further reference the corner combo he's been using is:

4D[m] 4kote j.B 2C 3C 2D sj.C j.B(whiffs) falling j.C 6A[m] 2C itsuuA 4Kote 3C 2D sj.C j.B(whiffs) falling j.C itsuuC j.8C 6Kote falling j.C 3C Kokushi

[Lord Knight]

i cant get chun dash 2a at all. Anyone got this yet?

[lunaris]

i cant get chun dash 2a at all. Anyone got this yet?

the only thing i can really advise is that it's far easier with certain setups, and to try doing chun on reaction to seeing the staff returning(as then it will hit just after staff2). you probably know that chun is actually 4 different moves in terms of frame data, but in case you didn't, i'll mention that it's a lot easier to do 3c/6c>chun(or any aerial drive hit>chun) than it is haku>chun(not sure if you can even dash for haku>chun). usually i just use 3c>chun>5b[m]>2c[m] if i'm comboing during staff return; i've got so much to work on that i haven't gotten around to practicing chun>2a, so i just use 5b/2c>6c during staff return as a cop-out if i don't have time for 3c.

seems like more litchis have been incorporating haku>chun into their combos lately, shounen in particular. not sure if i've seen anyone use it twice yet, although it's not exactly common for litchi to have that spacing. shounen is doing some unique stuff as usual in his recent videos; i've never seen another litchi do staff2>itsuuA in an itsuu loop, anti-air j.b[m]>j.c[m]>itsuuA, dash under the opponent after a j.c CH(since CS started), etc.

i also wanted to share something i noticed about daisharin: it has frame 1 aerial state. not really sure how useful this would be, but it might provide methods of escaping some character's(carl in particular) blockstrings without taking much damage, which is good if you have a life lead and the character can easily make comebacks with pressure vs ground if they guess right. the best example i can think of is against carl when nirvana is attacking or going to attack; if you use daisharin at this timing, you should be able to escape if you tech correctly since nirvana won't be available for a combo even if the carl player does react and switches to doing an anti-air combo(which may be a lot better than risking losing a sizable portion of your health+taking oki to his pressure if he guesses right at some point).

i don't recall this being available in CT since daisharin had invincibility. seems like you'd have to be creative to get much use out of it, but the upside is that if daisharin doesn't go off, this costs no meter(and if it does you should be getting a daisharin combo since it does have invincibility for 8f after super flash). to those who don't know, you can't do this with a jump since jumps do not have frame 1 aerial state, but beware that it does cause CH status(which may not matter depending on the character and attack).

[Lord Knight]

I posted that from the arcade :<

I got maybe 1/100 success rate last night. The a-cho casuals uploaded from this week had ALL the Litchi players hitting chun > dash 2A from random hits as an easier way to convert from staffless to getting the staff back if they hit the opponent while the staff is launched.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1O5fkpWesI#t=1m25s for reference.

[lunaris]

I posted that from the arcade :<

I got maybe 1/100 success rate last night. The a-cho casuals uploaded from this week had ALL the Litchi players hitting chun > dash 2A from random hits as an easier way to convert from staffless to getting the staff back if they hit the opponent while the staff is launched.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1O5fkpWesI#t=1m25s for reference.

i guess practice is all there is to it. i recall testing out that specific combo(i know i've seen that video before, but i could have sworn it was listed as chou playing...) and it wasn't too hard so long as you made sure chun hit soon after staff2. only other thing i haven't already mentioned that i can think of is buffering the dash.

i don't think there's a special trick to it besides using the right combos, so it'll probably just come with practice, but it'd be good if we could calculate what combos it's not possible to do off of(like maybe 2a>2b>haku>chun).

[Lord Knight]

Try, try again I guess. Though I don't recall being able to buffer dashes the same as advance input?

My other idea was to just do xx 3C staff2 5b[m] itsuuA for the ground hitconfirm, but the rekka's probably add more damage. Will test more tomorrow, updates to the first posts tomorrow as well.

[lunaris]

Try, try again I guess. Though I don't recall being able to buffer dashes the same as advance input?

My other idea was to just do xx 3C staff2 5b[m] itsuuA for the ground hitconfirm, but the rekka's probably add more damage. Will test more tomorrow, updates to the first posts tomorrow as well.

not quite the same as it's only a 3 frame buffer. i just checked the mook and reconfirmed. when i try this combo i hold down the second 6 and then hit 3a(although it feels more to me like 6>3a).

and as i mentioned earlier i find the easiest method of doing combos like this to be xx 3c>chun starts>staff2>chun hits>5b>2c>itsuuA, but i don't think you can do that with haku>chun as chun's rekka version has more recovery.

[Lord Knight]

So I'll try 6[6]3[a] tomorrow. Also I'll make note to try different starters since it's probably not possible off everything. Yesterday I was even struggling with doing raw chun > 2A. It's probably easier with 2C starter, I might've started with a couple of 2A's without realizing it.

[TD]

ls tk chun still effective?

[Lord Knight]

you cant do haku tkchun. Anyway 6[6]3[a] works like a charm but its still very tight. You catch them with the tip of 2a when done properly