dragontamer Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 2C>5C could be kind of useful for some semblance of mixup. Someone before mentioned following 5C with j.4D. I heard that j.4D crosses up at low heights. If it crosses up at the very beginning of the jump, and really is pretty much instant, then we could have an actual mixup. Of course, this is rampant speculation, and I doubt it would wort like that, but one can always hope. Its rampant speculation that they'll keep the 2C 5C gatling in the first place.
Halcyone3 Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 The only buff ?? Lets remember how difficult it is to perform an exhaustive search on a character's buffs before we start worrying about that. Its not like we knew d.6C -> d.5B was airtight even on instant-block before I tested it for example. Anyway, with 2C not doing any damage / going anywhere... there's no reason for an opponent to block low anyway. it is only "buff" **to her normals** that we have noted, i'm perfectly aware that there's probably other stuff to be figured out, and even if there isn't, its still loketest 1, there's still room for more change, i never denied that. I don't see how d.6C>d.5B fits into what i was saying though. and the opponent does have a reason to block low, 3C into easy 4k or 5k in corner, and if they keep this change, 2C hit guaranteeing a jump cancel is another reason to block low. Even if she didnt have her 3C dmg and that new change, why would u block high and take the low dmg when you know u can just block low and react to her silly overhead and not take any dmg at all?
kuma Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Its rampant speculation that they'll keep the 2C 5C gatling in the first place. Yeah, but it's a bit repetitive to have to say it every time. Just saying that if they do keep both those changes, or make new changes that we don't know about, even the stupidest looking things could turn out to be useful.
dragontamer Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Well, they didn't really buff any of Noel's Normals from CT -> CS, so its hard to think of an example. I guess a better example is then the much better proration on 3C from CT -> CS, because 3c is a normla. Before, it was 60 P2, and now its 84 P2, which is really the reason we're getting so much damage off of it. Improving the proration off of say, 5B, 5C, and 2C would greatly improve Noel's rapid options off of them, but would simultaniously be hard to see in a Loketest. My point is this: we really don't know anything. Plus, all I want are my disjointed hitboxes back on 5B and 5C, that would be all of the buff I need IMO. Piss poor Abare i'm used to, but always losing the poking game pisses me off a bit.
dragontamer Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 d.6C -> d.5B is not airtight on IB. You have to be spaced properly, because d.6Cs hitbox is weird. But yes, if you are spaced correctly, it is airtight. (Chain Revolver Oki generally sets you up correctly) You can easily test this fact in Training mode. Set the dummy to "block first hit only" and "instant-block". Then, d.6C -> d.5B. You'll notice that they'll block both attacks. You can then set a recorded training dummy Noel to do d.6C -> d.5B. Instant Block the (end of) d.6C and let go of the controller, you'll auto-block the d.5B.
Scythes Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 Tested it with a friend, after instant blocking the initial d.6C, as Tager, I just got B bustered before d.5B would happen.
dragontamer Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 Tested it with a friend, after instant blocking the initial d.6C, as Tager, I just got B bustered before d.5B would happen. Are you playing CT? Because that doesn't happen in CS. I'll upload a video to prove it. (although, I'd rather not, I'm kinda lazy)
Scythes Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 I'm not playing CT. It happens in CS. If you IB the last hit of d.6C, Tager can easily throw you out of it. I don't have a capture card, so I can't upload a video.
Chiizu Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 Strange, i'm pretty sure it was airtight if you buffer d.5B even if d.6C is IB'd. Are you sure there wasn't a little gap between the two? That would be the only possible issue. I've never even eaten a 2D from hakumen with this blockstring
FunkyP Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 B buster is slow enough regardless of how roughly airtight d.6C, d.5b is he shouldn't be throwing you
Scythes Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 Are you guys only doing d.6C right on top of them? I noticed it was airtight at certain distances, but not most...
Halcyone3 Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 Are you guys IBing the LAST hit on d.6c? dragontamer says he tested this with the AI set to IB everything, so my guess is yes.
dragontamer Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 Are you guys only doing d.6C right on top of them? I noticed it was airtight at certain distances, but not most... "You have to be spaced properly, because d.6Cs hitbox is weird. But yes, if you are spaced correctly, it is airtight. (Chain Revolver Oki generally sets you up correctly)" I've never said otherwise
Scythes Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 Can you really call something airtight if it's that situational?
LunaKage Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 Can you really call something airtight if it's that situational? Its airtight in a certain situation. he used "airtight" meaning there is no holes between d.6C > d.5B in the given situation. Not "airtight" as in "this will work every single time you use it no matter what". The english language is funny like that.
DC Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 In any case I'd rather have a small hole than no hole to catch a CH.
Halcyone3 Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 In any case I'd rather have a small hole than no hole to catch a CH. or to get DP/720. Having no hole there is optimal, it makes her unsafe drive safer to exit, plus if u want a hole, u can always make it urself by just delaying the d.5B. So u can get a hole "if u want", rather than "mandatory", being able to choose is always better.
dragontamer Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 Delaying 5B? There are easier and more consistent options. You have so many attacks to choose from. Use d.5A to change the rhythm of d.5B sometimes (both are airtight). Use d.6B for the overhead (hole on instant-block, airtight on normal-block). Use d.6D for the low (hole on normal block). Use d.2D for a backdash beater (its meaty as hell, and has a slight hole). The vast majority of good players will (attempt to) punish d.6C on block. If you do d.6C -> d.5A -> Overhead / Low, they'll send you hatemail for their DPs not working. :-) With almost no hitstop, d.5A is a good rhythm changer out of these things.
Chiizu Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 BTW, what happened to the updated guide talk? shall we wait until the re-balance patch comes out?
Halcyone3 Posted September 13, 2010 Posted September 13, 2010 Delaying 5B? There are easier and more consistent options. it was just an example, just saying that if one RLY needed a hole in that particular gattling, it could be made.
DC Posted September 13, 2010 Posted September 13, 2010 or to get DP/720. Having no hole there is optimal, it makes her unsafe drive safer to exit, plus if u want a hole, u can always make it urself by just delaying the d.5B. So u can get a hole "if u want", rather than "mandatory", being able to choose is always better. lol You don't understand, even after this "airtight" hole, you still must exit CR some how.
Halcyone3 Posted September 13, 2010 Posted September 13, 2010 lol You don't understand, even after this "airtight" hole, you still must exit CR some how. she's screwed in any case, might as well make it a bit less likely that the screwing will be specially severe. After d.5B's pushback, 236D could be a relatively safe exit
DC Posted September 13, 2010 Posted September 13, 2010 she's screwed in any case, might as well make it a bit less likely that the screwing will be specially severe. After d.5B's pushback, 236D could be a relatively safe exit DP/720. Yep.
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