Guilty Gear FAQ Thread - Ask your questions here!

[Digital Watches]

It costs a lot of money to submit a patch.

The most succinct summary I've heard for why consoles need to die.

[shtkn]

except that the $$$ hurdle is gone next gen for ps4 and wii u (dunno about xbox one)

[Digital Watches]

Well that's good at least.

[Circuitous]

(dunno about xbox one)

Their policies are largely unchanged, is my understanding.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

They changed them just this April: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-26-microsoft-no-longer-charges-developers-to-patch-their-xbox-360-games

Edited July 1, 2013 by Ctrlaltwtf

[TheRealBobMan]

Hey, how does proration apply to stun damage? I know that stun damage is derived from damage the move deals, along with other factors like stun modifiers on moves like May's/Eddie's 6P and counter hits, but I remember hearing that Pot can stun some characters off of a Gold Burst, which prorates damage really steeply. Maybe that's untrue, but if it works, it'd be good to know about.

[edollarports]

I've never seen that happen. As far as I know, only tnhe damage the move deals plus move modifiers and CH matter.

[4r5]

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Offense_(GGAC)#Bear_Stun_Formula

[TheRealBobMan]

The formula doesn't explain if it's base damage.

I'm want to assume it is since stun decays per hit based on which hit it is in the combo, meaning it's unnecessary for proration and scaling to apply to stun damage. I'll probably have to test it myself later if no one can confirm it.

Also, there's a discrepancy in the wiki. The frame data table shows Pot's 6H as having a 1.5X Dizzy modifier, but his main page and the example on the Stun Formula page don't mention it.

[edollarports]

Maybe it was written earlier?

Either way, I didn't know you could throw meaties. I guess it's just hard to time?

[Final Ultima]

Hey, how does proration apply to stun damage? I know that stun damage is derived from damage the move deals, along with other factors like stun modifiers on moves like May's/Eddie's 6P and counter hits, but I remember hearing that Pot can stun some characters off of a Gold Burst, which prorates damage really steeply. Maybe that's untrue, but if it works, it'd be good to know about.

The stun damage formula is based on base move damage. Edited July 3, 2013 by Final Ultima

[TheRealBobMan]

Awesome, thanks.

[Kaizen]

I don't think I've ever seen guard balance explained, but after just screw around a bit with trying to find Justice's GB +/- values, it's pretty clear that it affects how much a character's guard bar goes up when blocking a certain move, as if that wasn't suggested by its name already.

Sol has a guard balance of 1. The guard bar begins flashing at +65. So, if I hit him with a general level 3 move (+10) when he's at +54, he shouldn't begin flashing. Simple, right? This ends up being the case: he ends up at +64, one point shy of free counter hits.

Then we take Chipp, with a guard balance of 1.125. I hit him with a level 3 move when he's also at +54. Bam, the guard gauge starts flashing.

So has this ever been written out, explained, or at least examined? I don't see anything about it in the guides. It's a minor thing, but I feel like it's worth at least a bit of explanation.

Then we get to my big question.

Multi-hit moves seem to have their +GB values scaled when more than one hit of the move is blocked. Example: Sol's 5K is +6 GB on both hits. So, this should total +12 GB. Yet you have an opponent block at +53 GB, and their guard bar doesn't hit +65 GB. From experimenting with other moves, it seems to cut the value in half and round it down. Justice's 6H is +20 GB on both hits, yet only +30 GB when both hits of a single 6H are blocked in sequence.

Furthermore, moves seem to inflict more guard bar increase against airborne opponents, just as they inflict more blockstun. Against grounded Sol, Justice's j.S does +8 GB, but in the air it does +10 GB. j.H against grounded does +15 GB, against air it's +20 GB.

Even more interesting is that moves also seem to draining the guard bar further than normal when the guard bar is flashing (+65 GB or higher). Sol's 5P does -8 GB on hit. So, with a guard bar of +73, it'd make sense to think that a single 5P would bring the guard bar down to +65, keeping it flashing. Yet, this isn't the case. It doesn't go down to non-flashing (+64) unless the GB is set to +82, meaning that, when flashing, Sol's 5P has a -GB value of 18, which is 10 points higher than its listed value of -8 GB.

The same is to be said of 5K, c.S, f.S, and 2S (all level 3 moves), -7 GB normally and -17 GB when flashing. 10 point difference.

j.P (level 1, airborne), is -8 GB normally, -18 GB when flashing. 10 point difference.

j.K, j.S, and j.H(1) (level 3, airborne), are -7 GB normally, -18 GB when flashing. 11 point difference.

j.D (level 4, airborne), is -6 GB normally, -16 GB when flashing. 10 point difference.

5H, 2H (level 5), -6 GB normally, -16 GB when flashing. 10 point difference.

5D, normally -20 GB, is -32 GB when flashing. 12 point difference.

-This seems to apply to everybody's dust, except Testament's, who's 5D is only -7 GB.

Throw, and Wild Throw, normally -6 GB, are the same as when flashing. No difference.

Airthrow, normally -6 and -7 GB, are -6 GB (first hit), and -17 GB (second hit) when flashing. No difference first hit, 10 point difference second hit

All of these were tested against Sol, with a guard balance of 1, and a guard recovery of normal. I'm sure you can see at this point as to why I'm confused: there doesn't seem to be much consistency here. The game tends to be consistent with its +/-GB values on normals: level 1s are usually +3/-8 GB, level 5s are generally +20/-6 GB, and the inbetweens are easy to see. Thus, higher level moves scale less in addition to generally higher damage and hitstun. But when it comes to +/- GB values on multi-hit moves, airborne opponents, and flashing guard bars, we get inconsistencies. I'd like to know why.

So, to summarize it all:

-Is it written anywhere as to how Guard Balance works, and can we put this in the wiki? I feel that it's significant enough to warrant mention.

-Do we have any formulas/understanding for how +GB scales on multi-hit moves? For how +GB scales on airborne opponents? For how -GB scales on opponents with flashing guard bars?

-Putting it all together, though none of this should completely alter how we play the game, I feel that we stand to benefit just from understanding why it works the way it does. If we can do that, we can simplify its explanation and attain a stronger comprehension of GG's guard bar.

-Since we cannot accurately measure -GB values with a flashing guard bar for moves we don't know the -GB values of (Kliff and Justice), how can we find those values? Do we need some kind of software that I'm unaware of, or do we just have to wait for the magic ArcSys fairy to provide us with the info? Even though we can guess based on attack level, I'd rather have solid data that can be outright tested.

[Rhannmah]

Wow. Nice job. This should go straight in the wiki.

[TheRealBobMan]

I wonder how no one ever noticed this before considering that with a completely full guard bar, you only get 4 counter hits. That should point out the inconsistencies right off the bat.

I figure that the discrepancies in GB+/- when flashing are a separate issue from guard balance. Can you check if the Guard Balance modifier applies to GB- as well as GB+? It'd be strange to find out that characters like Dizzy have damage scale down against them faster. Would be useful for knowing when to combo into super for that unburstable finish attempt, or some form of burst bait because it just happens to do more damage for less meter while still letting you punish the burst for the win, since supers scale faster than other moves.

We should also find some way to accurately measure what "guard recovery" is, so that we'll have more information than "usual", which tells us nothing. Someone with recording equipment would have to do this from training mode so that the data will be useable (I'd suggest PC with frapps but we can't get a consistent starting point without training mode). I guess a starting point is to record how many frames it takes for the GB to recover to neutral from full across all characters.

[Final Ultima]

Regarding multi-hit moves having reduced GB+ on additional hits: It's not just related to multi-hit moves, but rather any additional hit blocked while the opponent remains in blockstun. And as you say, the figure is just the base number halved and rounded down. There's a table for it on the Japanese wiki, so we should probably add it to the Dustloop wiki too.

As for attacks having increased GB- while the Guard Balance is flashing, I have no idea what exactly determines the point difference, but I imagine that the reason for it is to be prevent you doing too many Counter Hits in a row. As a rule, you can only do up to four Counter Hits in a row off a maxed out Guard Balance. The only exception I can think of is for moves with a GB- of only 1 or 2, such as Grand Viper, which will allow for a fifth Counter Hit. Sol's ground throw and command throw don't need to be changed because they can't Counter Hit in the first place. His air throw can Counter Hit on a flashing Guard Balance, and so has an adjusted GB-.

Edit: Urk, took so long testing things out that TheRealBobMan made the four Counter Hits point before me.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Final Ultima

[TheRealBobMan]

If there's information on how much tension you lose when you FD a move, can that get translated and included as well? No one I've asked seems to know. They usually say to check the Japanese wiki. *Sigh*

[shtkn]

yeah... some aspects of gg's system are poorly explained or not at all... all we can do is search the jp wikis or maybe the mooks for the older games describe these things in detail

[Alpha152]

I had a question regarding how the beat counter works. With the example of Sol's Wild Throw combo into x3 SW loops > BR, if the dummy is set to neutral recovery it can tech before BR connects but if it's set to no recovery the BR will combo and not black beat. Can someone explain why and how this works?

[Orrax]

I think it's most likely that you're mistiming the BR in the case of neutral recovery, because that definitely combos if timed right. The timing can get a little tight after Wild Throw into 3 clean hit Sidewinders.

Also, you should set the training dummy to tech to either forward or back recovery if you want the fastest possible tech. Neutral tech happens slightly slower.

Basically, if the counter went black, the opponent could tech. I think there are a few glitches with this, but I don't know their specifics, unfortunately.

[Alpha152]

Ah ok, I figured it was just me dropping the combo but I happened to see some comments mentioning something odd so I wanted to make sure. Thanks anyway!

[Orrax]

If you're still running into the same problem, you can always try recording yourself. Just make sure you can set up the parameters exactly when you hit replay (i.e. pressing "select" and then hitting record). That'll let you do the exact same combo with spacing and such, and you can toggle settings and replay it and see if anything changes.

[Lynxfort]

1-Where can i find a good story mode paths guide ??..the one in gamefaqs didn't work well with i-no & dizzy..

2- Does the shortcut option are available in the Us ver of GGAC ??. cuz i didn't find it in the japanese ver??

Edited August 15, 2013 by Lynxfort

[Elochai]

Does slashbacking cause you to fall to the ground faster? I've noticed some Eddie players doing it after their flight duration was up, and I'm just curious as to why.

[Demonscall]

Is justice or anyone in here banned as fats as competitive scene goes? I really like her and I know she's getting balanced out and different gameplay come patch update R but just wanted to know is it ok playing her now?