[CS1] Lambda vs Hakumen

[kenja0]

With Hakumen's buffs and Lambda's mechanic changes, Lambda vs Hakumen matches can be some of the most tedious matches to fight. Right now, the matchup stands: 50-50.

The matchup says both have an equal advantage against the other, but in reality, both have a humongous advantage against the other depending on who is controlling the space between the two of them.

Keep away:

Because of Hakumen's slow forward step dash, Hakumen likes to approach from the air. If Hakumen is able to approach through forward steps, then throw out a couple of 5D and 6Ds to stop him. He's a much easier target to hit in the air.

His airdash seems faster in CS. 6D him when he's far away and/or trying to get into the air. 2D him when he is at most half a screen away. His airdash will usually cause a 6D to whiff at this distance.

Keep an eye on Hakumen's openings. If Hakumen is close and does not airdash, he serves the risk of being able to cut one of Lambda's 2D swords. If this happens, she's going to be eating Hakumen's projectile barrier AND get hit by Hakumen. The best way to counter this is a Gravity Seed AA or 6A (less practical).

Always an option: if Hakumen is approaching you predictably in the air- meet him there with an airgrab. If it succeeds, you'll score a free 2k+ with RC.

Close combat:

Hakumen is a tank up close. Fighting him point blank is a death sentence and Barrier won't push him away fast enough before he tries to reset his position. His 6A was nerfed so his approach has some weaknesses in it, but he's gained a normal overhead, 6B, which gives him low invincibility- making a sweep defense relatively unsafe now.

Lambda's new DP-like Gravity Seeds only work when Hakumen is point blank which isn't usually the case with him. The best attacks to safely Gravity Seed Hakumen off are 6A and the forward momentum magnatama moves.

Hakumen has also gained a new attack, 4C, which is a stab with his sword far forward. Its range is immense and will pretty much stop any of Lambda's backdash escapes.

Counter Assaults are somewhat useful since Hakumen's attack either have a long recovery or are auto-cancelled into magnatama attacks. Luckily, CA are much safer on Hakumen than on any other character. 50 Heat is a bit steep though...

The best way to escape a Hakumen is to IAD away from him during an opening. However, be weary of his new j.C which is pretty much 4C in the air.

Rush down:

Don't rush Hakumen unless he's down (214D oki). He's got a much better close game and he's got counters for Lambda's multi-hit attacks.

Projectile Barrier:

Hakumen's new Projectile Barrier is good. If Hakumen slashes one of Lambda's many projectiles, the Barrier will spawn about the size of a Tager-Tot and stay on screen in that spot for about 3 seconds. If Lambda hits the barrier with another projectile, its time limit extends by 3 seconds for each hit. The barrier will disappear instantly if Lambda touches it.

If Hakumen is on the opposite side of the screen and creates a barrier, he can hide behind or inside of it. The best way to get around it is 4D. 236D© will also work if the barrier isn't low to the ground.

214D is bad in this matchup because of the barrier. He'll simply slash it with something like 4C and use it as a defense to charge his magnatama or strengthen his approach. If you want to use 214D, use it only for oki.

Magnatama Gauge:

The biggest feature with Hakumen is his Magnatama, which gives him access to special moves that can cancel into each other at any time. The bar charges if he's hit, dealing a hit, or just by itself.

1 bar, a short speed burst that smacks- not very useful outside of combos for Hakumen.

1 bar, he can dash forward fairly far while ducking extremely low to the ground. At that point, 6D stops becoming a safe option since it can whiff. If he has 2, he can add a DP-like move at the end.

2 bars, he can hit with an instant low move. It needs to be fairly close to hit.

2 bars, he can perform a DP move in the air.

3 bars, he can perform an airstall instant overhead in the air.

3 bars, he can perform an overhead followed by a sweep.*

If Hakumen has any more than 3, he can make that overhead come out fairly randomly by fusing it with the instant low, etc.

4 bars, he can throw out a counter super, which isn't that bad for Lambda to worry about unless you're close. The other super works in a combo.

The biggest thing to note about Hakumen's aerial magnatama moves is that he has access to them while on the ground via forward dash- it's a short hop forward, considering him to be in the air (Tager's Atomic Collider can catch him, lol).

The overhead becomes scary, so keep him away so he doesn't get the chance.

Summary:

Hakumen is a tough match. Prediction is the key to victory on either players' part. Keep an eye on his Magnatama gauge and exhibit safety based on his access to his moves. He's not the pushover he was in CT (mostly due to Lambda's mechanic changes), so don't treat him like one.

[Jugiatsu]

The problem I have seen with this matchup so far in all the videos I've watched is just how much trouble Lambda players are having now because of all the new stuff Hakumen got, while at the same time all the nerfs Lambda (Nu) received. To me in CT it was all about zoning like with Tager, and even now it still is too some extent. Throw out the swords and try to keep him mixed up so he doesn't get a jump on you or near you.

Problem is once he is close Lambda's game just goes all to hell. Gravity-field has a recharge time now so if you whiff that you are screwed. Her 6A is the only quick safe poke she has available. And her teleport is pretty much non-existent. Not too mention Hakumen has plenty of ways of breaking your guard-primer.

I think what could definitely help in this thread is listing viable ways to deal with Hakumen once he is up in your face. We all know what we can do to keep him away. Its playing in melee mode that is difficult.

[toanenadiz]

Why is 6A safer than 5A or 5B?

[severin]

Why is 6A safer than 5A or 5B?

It isn't. Ever. If you must mash something, mash 5A (though I would not recommend it)

Few notes:

One of the last things you want to do against hakumen is rush him when you have a meaty 214D, because after a neutral tech, he can just 6D the 214D and combo you if you're in range. Also, hakumen cannot combo after 6B at all (he can't even RC the move) unless you don't tech, however, if he does land it, he's at considerable advantage.

As for getting out of melee range, pretty much treat it like anybody else. Block, tech throws, look for your opportunities out. Don't expect to mash out of anything, because most of hakumen's normals are + on block, and there are usually few holes in his stings. Thankfully though, his strings are pretty short. Quick note: you can DP between hits of renka (low spinkick thing) if you instant block the first hit. Gurren (dash punch) can be punished with 5a if you instant block it.

As far as what not to do when you're pressuring him at melee range, just don't 2C > 6C, or 5C > 6C. You'll just get countered, and that will make you sad.

[Arcade Fire87]

Ugh, no good Nu ever used 6C in this matchup unless a hit connected.

This fight sounds harder. Kinda a question though, Severin. I was able to play against Hakumen's up close in CT, does this change dramatically in CS?

[qwerty]

hakumen is only scary at close range when he has at least 50% meter.

6A is good, but you have to respect it; it is fairly easy to mash out of.

6B really isn't all that scary, it's super easy to react to.

5B is good, but again, you have to respect it.

hotaru is good and it forces you to respect it.

keep in mind that what hakumen gained in mid and long range, he lost in close range. 6A is still viable but not the incredible "fuck off" aura it was in ct, and that alone dramatically changes how hakumen fights at close range.

[Arcade Fire87]

Oh, that's really interesting. I'll probably mix in a healthy combination of close up fights and zoning.

I'm a little excited after seeing what I think was Reria playing. Lambda was able to do TK feint>3C>236B>5A/6 some corner loop without meter. With Nu just needing to land one hit to push into a corner the possibility of her corner pressure really makes me excited to play her up close if loops can be done without meter

[mAc Chaos]

6A lost it's godliness as an AA, but Hakumen still has a ton of AA options that work just fine. His new j.C for one.

I was hoping they'd actually make him stronger up close rather than weaker, but I'd assume in this particular matchup it's still going to be in his favor up close since it wouldn't have been an even match up otherwise.

Is he really worse up close though? His C attacks are faster and have less recovery, and he has a meterless overhead, and 6A lets him keep Nu locked down and gets him closer to her, and he gains meter faster from his attacks.

[XVII]

I can really tell 6A has been nerfed big time. In CT, you could do magatama specials after that, and start it off a low or high. Same goes for 6B. However, since he can no longer do this, I'd definitely say he has gotten worse up close, almost as if they prioritized on distance-keeping instead of close-range beatings.

[cookiehours]

I have problems against very aggressive Hakumens. I fought matchups with MGSBigBoss (many say he was the best Hakumen on PSN) and i think I only won one round against him. Either my zoning sucks ass or I'm trying too much to fight him up close (which is a no-no in this match). Most of the time I predict his moves wrong. I'm pretty sure it's me sucking really badly.

Any tips?

[kenja0]

I haven't quite tried this yet since I have yet encountered a problem against Hakumen- Instant Barrier Block. Hakumen's range is immense but Instant Barriers push the attacker away really far. This may fuel your escapes.

TK Crescent Saber is another Anti-air tool if used at the right time. It'll hit pretty far away.

[cookiehours]

I haven't quite tried this yet since I have yet encountered a problem against Hakumen- Instant Barrier Block. Hakumen's range is immense but Instant Barriers push the attacker away really far. This may fuel your escapes.

TK Crescent Saber is another Anti-air tool if used at the right time. It'll hit pretty far away.

I swear to gawd, I keep forgetting half of her moveset. ._.

[L1F3]

I just played a good Haku-men [its my Tager friend who just reacts to everything...] and I find his 6A > 6B blockstring very hard to deal with. I'm not sure, but I believe that I'm somehow negative, even though 6B has 18 frames of start up and I IB the 6A... I've tried to Gravity Seed/632146D but nothing comes out. I even tried backdashing, and letting go of back in general as to not get guard broken [i've randomly been guard crushed while barrier guarding the last primer...with nearly full barrier...] but I just sit there and keep blocking.

If I'm in the corner and that nonsense happens I just wait for him to double jump and I 236A my ass out of there... seeing as he option selects his falling jumping moves in case I jump and air throw him out of something. This usually ends up with me escaping with 1 primer or being guard crushed [he won't combo me, as I am guard crushed with my barrier up...wtf Haku-men].

Having trouble with his command dash, as it goes through 5D. I don't know what to do really if he's mid/full screen aside from back up. He'll hop/walk forward and counter my swords on reaction if he doesn't have stars to command dash.

I rarely use anti-air swords when he's approaching in the air, I just dash up to him and try to 6A something...which has been working pretty well.

When I get a knockdown and throw out a meaty, he does 2D [he also option selects incase I decide to throw him instead, and I eternally fail to punish whiff counters cuz I'm dumb lol]

All in all, I've just been sucking really hard, as I can't react to anything but his 6B and TK Tsubaki... and grabs, since he spams those.

He jabs me out of my Tk saber feints when I try mix up, and if I just 2147D, he j.Ds me on reaction lol

[toanenadiz]

Haku's 6A is +5 frames on block. I have been able to throw Haku out of 6B after IBing 6A but the Haku might have screwed up the spacing or something.

Meaty 2nd hit of 4B on wake-up beats Haku's 2D but loses to 6D.

What are all these option selects he is using? If he has entered the start-up frames of a move, shouldn't you get a throw counter, regardless of whether or not he attempts to tech it?

[L1F3]

Haku's 6A is +5 frames on block. I have been able to throw Haku out of 6B after IBing 6A but the Haku might have screwed up the spacing or something.

Meaty 2nd hit of 4B on wake-up beats Haku's 2D but loses to 6D.

What are all these option selects he is using? If he has entered the start-up frames of a move, shouldn't you get a throw counter, regardless of whether or not he attempts to tech it?

Doing a meaty 4B is helpful, I'll try that.

As for option selects, it's 4ABC, which he inputs after whatever move. I'm not entirely sure, but it's only during the start up of a move, before it becomes active to my knowledge, that you can option select throw techs... The game has something about it in its tutorial.

[crazycrackers]

I just played a good Haku-men [its my Tager friend who just reacts to everything...] and I find his 6A > 6B blockstring very hard to deal with. I'm not sure, but I believe that I'm somehow negative, even though 6B has 18 frames of start up and I IB the 6A... I've tried to Gravity Seed/632146D but nothing comes out. I even tried backdashing, and letting go of back in general as to not get guard broken [i've randomly been guard crushed while barrier guarding the last primer...with nearly full barrier...] but I just sit there and keep blocking.

If I'm in the corner and that nonsense happens I just wait for him to double jump and I 236A my ass out of there... seeing as he option selects his falling jumping moves in case I jump and air throw him out of something. This usually ends up with me escaping with 1 primer or being guard crushed [he won't combo me, as I am guard crushed with my barrier up...wtf Haku-men].

Having trouble with his command dash, as it goes through 5D. I don't know what to do really if he's mid/full screen aside from back up. He'll hop/walk forward and counter my swords on reaction if he doesn't have stars to command dash.

I rarely use anti-air swords when he's approaching in the air, I just dash up to him and try to 6A something...which has been working pretty well.

When I get a knockdown and throw out a meaty, he does 2D [he also option selects incase I decide to throw him instead, and I eternally fail to punish whiff counters cuz I'm dumb lol]

All in all, I've just been sucking really hard, as I can't react to anything but his 6B and TK Tsubaki... and grabs, since he spams those.

He jabs me out of my Tk saber feints when I try mix up, and if I just 2147D, he j.Ds me on reaction lol

6a>6b is pretty meh. Its not like 6b has some huge advantage or anything. Plus there's not much Hakumen can do about getting counter assaulted after 6a.

After his double jump I'd recommend running under him rather than using 236a. If you run under him you can easily throw swords at him afterwards. Use 2d/6d/5d depending on what will work.

@ His command dash. Just IAD away I guess or air dash over him to the other side if you're going to get cornered. It costs his 1 magatama so its not like he can use it forever. Plus its not like the thing is fully invincible, you can probably punish it if YOU react to it instead of throwing out swords and letting him react to you.

@ the anti air thing? Why not? 2d is pretty dam good. Although if 6a works for you it doesn't really matter I guess.

@ 2d vs meaty knockdowns. As stated, meaty 4b. Though thats a bit risky. You can also throw out a TK or feint it and punish a counter with w/e.

Finally if you're jabbed out of TK feints then just space yourself better and I don't believe his jab can hit you.

[loerg]

i dont spam Tsubaki's your crazy juan i i think ive used it once. i tk my JD if i ever see you do anything, thats all you ever have to do. thats why i think that Hakumen is the best character in the game, because if you see any type of attack at all do a TK JD there's no way hakumen will ever lose to any character. and its because of his counters

[mAc Chaos]

So, it's been a while since this thread was made and the game came out. Anything change in this matchup or is it still pretty much the same?

I've heard some people express that it's really Hakumen's advantage, and others think that Lambda can shut him down pretty well. Is it still 5-5? The idea that it's "7-3" in favor of Haku or Lambda depending on if you're close or not makes sense though.

I suppose I think it's 5-5, but I'm curious if there were any developments.

[SolarMisae]

Hakumen battles bore me. So much turtling. I really don't understand how to fight him to be honest, other than stay away, use projectiles smartly, and once in awhile, I'll sometimes trick him into a tick throw off of a 236A when he tries to D counter expecting a 236B or 236C.

Not being able to use Spike Chaser outside of oki against him kinda throws me off, and makes the match even MORE boring. To me it mostly feels like this battle is as slow paced as a staring contest. Just watching, predicting and waiting for the other to make their move and countering appropriately, whenever they eventually do. I suppose it could be because I haven't fought many interesting Hakumens though...

I can't say what the matchup at the moment is, but I agree that who has the advantage could vary depending on where you are on the screen...

Any tips on this matchup that haven't already been stated would be great, I still don't fully understand how to go about this one. x.x

[toanenadiz]

When I fight Hakumen, I try to stay at a distance where i can punish Kishuu with 3C and I can stop his IADs with swords.

This match-up is relatively slow and a lot of time can be spent just waiting for the other one to move. I think that everything important has been said by other people already.

And can Hakumen gatling his drive from any of his normals?

[cookiehours]

When I fight Hakumen, I try to stay at a distance where i can punish Kishuu with 3C and I can stop his IADs with swords.

This match-up is relatively slow and a lot of time can be spent just waiting for the other one to move. I think that everything important has been said by other people already.

And can Hakumen gatling his drive from any of his normals?

Well, my Hakumen matchups are generally fun because I have Hakumens that smack into my swords and commit suicide.

But against a good Hakumen, yes you must be patient.

[SolarMisae]

Welp, yep looks like I've been playing this matchup correctly and it really is just about waiting, as I kinda suspected. Perhaps I'll go find some of those suicidal Hakumens Cookie mentioned to enjoy the matchup more lol. I'm not very patient so Hakumen matches feel painfully slow to me. Oh well. xD At least it's not a terribly hard matchup, just a terribly slow one. :3

[mAc Chaos]

When I fight Hakumen, I try to stay at a distance where i can punish Kishuu with 3C and I can stop his IADs with swords.

This match-up is relatively slow and a lot of time can be spent just waiting for the other one to move. I think that everything important has been said by other people already.

And can Hakumen gatling his drive from any of his normals?

He can cancel into his counter from pretty much all his As and Bs.

[germanturkey]

yeah, this matchup is still about patience. thing is, if hakumen gets in once, there goes a 1/3 of your health. plus it doesn't help that he gets automatic meter gain anyways.