FlyingVe Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 High B... Maybe low A. She has a lot of tools, and some match-ups that she just dominates (You can guard crush Tager for fun). But she also has some match-ups that are hell (Mu v Bang might be the worst matchup in the game). Her oki game is really solid (if not bulletproof) but she can't shit damage like the other high tiers can.
Black Onslaught Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 tbh, Mu has to do a lot of shit versus good opposition to get a stein(s) out for her setups. she gets like 3k with her loop, 5.2kish? with 50 meter which is cute, I guess. I see her at B, to be terribly honest. Rushdown Trio, Hakumen and Hazama seem to be keeping her out of A in my honest opinion.
AlterGenesis Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 No higher than B-B+. Arguably her damage off single random non-CH is low and to do decent damage either requies a situational setup, meter, corner or an expected CH/Fatal. The strongest aspect of her game is her okizeme, as Lambda does zoning better than she does. Her C series of normals are great and help to dominate certain matchups (Tager, Rachel, Tsubaki). As it lets her both approach and retreat (see jump C) (She also has Lambdas great 6A and 2B) But, arguably, she does lose against the higher tier (Bang, Litchi, Ragna), which means she is not at their level. It can be hard to get steins out on these characters and use them effectively when these characters have comprable strength normals and great forward momentum. You start to notice that she is missing some of those tools to put her in the upper echelon. Her mix-up is decent, but you really have to hope and force your opponent to twitch during your pressure, because when facing a more patient, defensive player, you can have more difficulty doing good damage and getting that all important oki. Her overhead is seeable and can be blocked on reaction, so you have to train your opponent to expect certain setups as her strings can become very predictable (she doesnt have as many options when poking up close as Bang, Hazama, Litchi, Ragna, etc.) and easily defended. Great thing about her, though, is that even while she might not be top, is that she is a real momentum character. Her DP is amazing and is generally a get out of free and reset the spacing card when someone is rushing you down. Although, she does suffer like Lambda in terms of dealing with rushdown, but her DP is much more reliable than gravity. She is great in neutral situations as she can just start crapping out steins from mid-to-full screen safely to simply annoy the opponent (its a good way of doing so =3), adding to the fact that she has several great anti-air (6A, 2C, DP,) options and then she can stop predictable run-ins with C or 6C. Her game is very reliant on 236D, but getting that KND/DP into it pretty much makes her as scary as she is going to be. It puts you in business at any point in the match. Stein control is probably the next most important thing, as having as least two on the VISIBLE field (and not somewhere up in the sky) at any time will go a long way to making people scared of you. Mu is good, but not great. HAVE FUN, AT LEAST SHE IS NOT RACHEL!
TD Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 l see. l was afraid to say B tier, but now l wholeheartedly agree. Arcsys made sure not to make another Nu (gameplay wise.)
GenoWhirl Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I have unlocked that ass and I must say I love her, I just still suck as her. Gimme some time!
FlyingVe Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Though, as people start coming up with better oki setups, and landing 214D cancel combos more consistently (it's tough to tell when you can do it mid lasers), her damage out put would go up considerably. So I'd prefer to say B and climbing, not sure how high she'll wind up though.
AlterGenesis Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Problem I have with 214D cancel combos is that you (possibly) blow-up steins for a little extra damage. ...and then it starts to get a little character specific, as was proven with some testing on my part and others. (Tsubaki, Tao, Arakune, Lambda, Carl. etc.) Some of the overhead bounce combos get screwy on the mentioned. I just hope there is some logical way to breakdown the characters types for specific combos.
FlyingVe Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I think there's a list somewhere in the combo thread, but in my experience the taller the character, the easier the juggle. My point was that, because the character is so new, I don't think anyone has hit the mu ceiling yet.
AlterGenesis Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Well, that goes without saying. But, even still, she is not Bang, nor do I see becoming close to his level.
MisoSowee Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I'd put her right above Noel :[ Then again I'm very very pessimistic :3
Afro-Demon Posted August 6, 2010 Author Posted August 6, 2010 I would say right around arakune in the b-tier. Not sure if above or below at this point. also there is still the possibility of her getting something insane however that is unlikely at this point. She consistently lands above 2.4 K and although im sure some of it might be inexperienced players, but some people still will eat a CH236D for easy reset. It's not hard to break primers for her, i'd say she's actually the third if not second best character at the job. Her oki is just scary, pure and simple. Her zoning (combined drive and C normals) while not on lambda's level, is still enough to make it incredibly annoying to approach her, and is possibly some of the safest zoning in the game (i reacted to a D Ice car with 5D and still managed to jump cancel block in time.) However, her higher damage possibilities require really specific set-ups that are rare in itself (when are we going to land a point blank 3C for that 4k meterless?) and she is rather lacking in the speed department for some of her normals. Her mixup, while not bad, does leave a lot to be desired with options out of it. All of my friends literally only feel like blocking low to her since she can only get 1.7K on an overhead without meter. Also, i'm not sure if it's just me, but her dp seems to clash with a lot of moves, making it an unreliable reversal.
TD Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Well said. And, yes her dp is clash city. l don't even recommend it against Ragna, his D clashes constantly. uuuuugh! About her mixups: What are some strings into overheads and whatnot? l got 5c - 2c - 3c into stein - j.2c... or 5b - 6b... How can l make myself safe after a failed mixup? l know steins/meter helps.
kro_ Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 At least Lambda/Hazama tier. At most Hakumen/Carl tier.
FlyingVe Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Well said. And, yes her dp is clash city. l don't even recommend it against Ragna, his D clashes constantly. uuuuugh! About her mixups: What are some strings into overheads and whatnot? l got 5c - 2c - 3c into stein - j.2c... or 5b - 6b... How can l make myself safe after a failed mixup? l know steins/meter helps. That is a pretty bad string. The opponent will have so much time to react to the j2C it's not even funny. I don't have any strings, but I tend to frame trap with 2A alot and try to end my stings before I get to 3C. Canceling into 6A and 5B(on the characters it won't wiff on) can lead to some cool setups. If you find yourself having thrown out an unsafe move on block, 63214C is probably the safest followup, but stien is okay. Lastly, this is advice for every character but, you can gattling everything out of your jabs, and also, pressure shouldn't be restricted to gattlings. 2B has frame advantage, abuse it, and pray your opponent isn't bang.
MisoSowee Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Can anyone confirm if 5a whiffs on crouching ragna/jin? (or any other normal-sized crouching hitbox, not like FREAKING LITCHI THAT I CAN'T EVEN J.C WEJROISADJFLKSDFJSDLKJ) Plox? :3
FlyingVe Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Did some testing 5A wiffs on all but Hakumen, and Tager
Nemhy Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 I just unlocked Mu-12 today and I'm having serious trouble learning her. What are some easy setups or combos I could work on so I at least have a foundation?
TD Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Thx fv. l have trouble harassing the opponent with strings and usually just go into mixup. lt's a bad habit. Hmm, a basic string? Well, Mu is one of those chars that lie about their difficulty. ln her case she's more difficult than she looks. l started out with 2b - 5b - 5c - 5d - 63214c. Was hel'ful as a blockstring.
FlyingVe Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Mu has a few reverse beat type strings, 2B>5B>2B, 2B>6A>2B, 5B>6A>5B. Usually I do something like this, 2A>2A>2B to hit confirm. Sadly, I tend to be a bit greedy afterwards and try to keep mixing up, then get beat down for it. I'm beginning to think that often times you might want to back off if the opponent is blocking. Thankfully, both 5B and 6A are Jump cancelable, so you can be fairly safe. The other thing I'm becoming very aware of is that summoning steins in the air is ridiculously unsafe, and that mashy players can screw up alot of her mixup.
TD Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 You took the words right out of my sentence fv. I realized today that Mu isnt even good at harassment. Not like Ragna or Jin. certainly not like Bang. Good players have mashed out of my 5b 2b 2a strings, leaving me at a disadvantage. l see it like this: whatever you're going to do, you best do it quick. One small string, dash in, another small string, mixup/tick. Or you will lose your momentum. And with Mu, that is the last thing you're going to want to happen, especially in competitive play.
FlyingVe Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 According to the frames 2B>2A should be safe against most of the cast, Bang being the most notable exception. Damn I wish her overhead was just a bit faster.
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