toanenadiz Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Mu is definately solid, though she isn't particularily strong. Also, how and where you put your steins needs to be carefully planned, where-as D-swords are point and shoot. There is more to Lambda's zoning than just her D-swords though. But this isn't really where such a discussion should take place.
Zeromus_X Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 ^Yeah, I would switch Arakune and Rachel around imo. Arakune it's like, "brb gonna set up some orbs and press jC, hope you're okay with that." Rachel is definitely a favorable matchup, but if you get cornered by her...
toanenadiz Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 ^Yeah, I would switch Arakune and Rachel around imo. Arakune it's like, "brb gonna set up some orbs and press jC, hope you're okay with that." Rachel is definitely a favorable matchup, but if you get cornered by her... I can attest to that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKbsV6VEKpw#t=4m33s
FlyingVe Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) There is more to Lambda's zoning than just her D-swords though. But this isn't really where such a discussion should take place. I was just being ignorant. Don't take it too seriously, I know all the non-bang non-Ragna characters take some work . I just don't think the comparison between Lambda and Mu's zoning is very good. They are very different. ^Yeah, I would switch Arakune and Rachel around imo. Arakune it's like, "brb gonna set up some orbs and press jC, hope you're okay with that." Rachel is definitely a favorable matchup, but if you get cornered by her... I was on the fence about those two also. I have trouble putting arakune in Lolz because, well, he can still "Arakune" you, and steins aren't quite as good a swords against him. As for Rachel, yeah, her corner pressure's okay, but it's super hard for her to get in on Mu, and even then you have a DP and CA. Thanks to her shitty damage, you can roll the dice all day. Edited April 1, 2011 by FlyingVe
LunaKage Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Mu is definately solid, though she isn't particularily strong. Also, how and where you put your steins needs to be carefully planned, where-as D-swords are point and shoot. As for matchups: Disaster - Hazama, Bang, Tao Bad - Litchi, Hakumen, Makoto Even - Noel, Ragna, Jin, Lambda Good - Tsubaki, Arakune, Valk Lolz- Tager, Carl, Rachel Even with Noel? LOL That matchup is absolutely ass for Noel, for one we can't get within range because of those lasers and her C pokes, and two, once we do get in, her short range pokes beat everything we do.
FlyingVe Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Even with Noel? LOL That matchup is absolutely ass for Noel, for one we can't get within range because of those lasers and her C pokes, and two, once we do get in, her short range pokes beat everything we do. I can see why you'd see it that way, what you say is true. On the flip side, Noel is fast, has options to guess around the steins/setups (3C for example), and her drives wreck our pressure and pokes. Really, it's just a very, very, messy matchup, one I don't think either character likes much. Edit: it actually reminds me of the makoto matchup, except Noel isn't as good... Edited April 1, 2011 by FlyingVe
C0R Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Ehhh, I don't necessarily agree with Ve's match-up listings, but we play against different players so you can never know. I don't actually think Hakumen is that much in his favor, maybe just slightly because a perfectly spaced 2b will clash with her DP, plus Spark is the only Hakumen player I've ever felt at a disadvantage fighting. I also don't feel Tao is that threatening due to Mu's abundance of antiair normals and high damage output, in addition, airgrab in that matchup is... too good. IMO she has nearly all solid matchups with one or two hard ones.
LunaKage Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I can see why you'd see it that way, what you say is true. On the flip side, Noel is fast, has options to guess around the steins/setups (3C for example), and her drives wreck our pressure and pokes. Really, it's just a very, very, messy matchup, one I don't think either character likes much. 2D is beaten by 2C and 5D is beaten by SoD, we have nothing in this matchup, plus if we wiff a drive it's a free 6C fatal combo for you, I seriously have no idea why any Mu would be having trouble with this matchup, and 3C is useless, the only people who throw that out anymore just have given up and are now just hoping someone gets hit by it. I'm guilty of that one myself, oh yeah, and you guys have an actual DP, not that it matters because you can usually just mash 2A and poke us out of our pressure, because we don't have pressure. We should fight again sometime Ve, it would be nice to fight a Mu who is still afraid of Noel stuff.
FlyingVe Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 @COR: My tao experience is limited, so I'll defer to others. But I never felt that we had anything on her. As for Haku, against a haku that knows the matchup, lasers are woefully ineffective, and his pokes beat ours. Your also correct, Mu has alot of tools, so she usually has some kind of option. @Luna: Right we have moves to beat drives, but those aren't moves that the Mu player wants to be throwing out there (pressure or otherwise) either. 3C isn't great, but it will bail Noel out of alot of stuff. I'm not afraid of Noel stuff any more than makoto stuff. The issue is that, unlike other characters, you have tools to guess your way around stuff, and you damage output makes up for alot. Though, after giving it more consideration, your right, it probably belongs in the "good for Mu camp"; I really dislike messy matchups, and tend to think and perform very poorly in and of them. We can play again if you want, but I'll probably be pretty sad. You can blame marvel for that...
LunaKage Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 2C is good against Noel even on block because she can option select a jump cancel, TD showed me this, mash 2A on block, pause, throw out 2C and jump back, if we blocked you get to backdash and keep applying neutral game zoning shit, which Noel hates and can do nothing about, if we 2D you get a CH2C and can air dash forward for a combo. TD is one of the best Mus I have played despite the lag and a little bit of netplay showing through, and him and Jago showed me why we are not supposed to win the matchup. Also about the strat I just talked about, we can still 5D through 2C, so if you start to get scared of that start using SoD after the pause, we get hit out of 5D and 2D and if we block it you still get to go back to neutral, SoD is the single worst thing about this matchup for Noel, because we have no way to beat it, no way to punish it, and no real way to handle it, just block it and hope we don't get guardcrushed. The only reason why you would want to use 2C instead of SoD in this scenario is because you can't combo off of it unless it's fully charged, oh and speaking of which, if you think you have us scared of pushing buttons, fully charge it on block, its really fun to see 3 out of my 4 primers melt away with one risky move :P Fun Times.
FlyingVe Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 You would know better than me but... IB SoD and you should be able to dash in and do whatever, provided it isn't charged. I will have to play with it more, I never used it basically at all in this matchup.
LunaKage Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 You would know better than me but... IB SoD and you should be able to dash in and do whatever, provided it isn't charged. I will have to play with it more, I never used it basically at all in this matchup. It's pushback is horrendous for Noel, because we don't have a good long range move with short startup, we can probably IB > Short dash > 5B > 5C > 2C for no damage and no extra pressure, but at max range we can't reach you even with that, just use a tight blockstring until your 2B is just barely hitting us before you use SoD and it should be all gravy.
FlyingVe Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Good stuff. I'll admit to having an abnormal hatred for this matchup that is probably discoloring my opinions.
LunaKage Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Good stuff. I'll admit to having an abnormal hatred for this matchup that is probably discoloring my opinions. It's alright, we all get salty at matchups that make us play differently than others, like with Noel every matchup is "Pray" and against Tager it is "Pray, and don't touch C or D".
Aginor Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 In regards to Mu vs. Noel, it's actually even imo. Noel actually has answers to Mu's stuff. For noel it's like playing against lambda except Mu has a way better DP, and normals than lambda but I do think Lambda has an easier time keeping Noel out. As for Noel, you don't have much of a pressure to even begin with except 5a and 2b. Noel is more about conditioning rather than having constant pressure. If you wanted constant pressure, go play jin. I'm not going to further discuss about what noel can do because this isn't the forum for it. But uhh.....for noel just IB 5d. It beats A LOT of stuff.
FlyingVe Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Hurray, we're all right! and as usual, nobody thinks their character sucks as much as the one who plays him/her...
LunaKage Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 IB5D still loses to SoD :3 I guess I can't argue with the mod in his own domain, but it is still far from even, I guess the only way to really know what I'm talking about is to experience it for yourself in the Noel's shoes.
LunaKage Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 btw, I play Noel and my Noel is better than my Mu. Well I'll have to see this then, we should play :3
TD Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 sod > noel ruins 2d, 5d, and 3c, all 3 of her best pokes in one shot max range sod is practically unpunishable since noel is out of range to do any fast 5a's/2d or 5d. sod also aa's noel due to its range and active frames the only time sod isnt good is if noel has 50 meter, but by that time she should be half dead yeah noel can be a problem but she cant even approach you. this matchup is free also ve, rach vs mu is not that free. rach can get in on mu very quickly. george negates any form of zoning mu has (set him and camp, blow accordingly) and in the corner she can space mu completely out where none of mu's a/b/dp can even hit her <3 thx luna
LunaKage Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 sod > noel ruins 2d, 5d, and 3c, all 3 of her best pokes in one shot max range sod is practically unpunishable since noel is out of range to do any fast 5a's/2d or 5d. sod also aa's noel due to its range and active frames the only time sod isnt good is if noel has 50 meter, but by that time she should be half dead yeah noel can be a problem but she cant even approach you. this matchup is free also ve, rach vs mu is not that free. rach can get in on mu very quickly. george negates any form of zoning mu has (set him and camp, blow accordingly) and in the corner she can space mu completely out where none of mu's a/b/dp can even hit her <3 thx luna I'm glad someone is on my side here, Aginor and Ve trying to blow me up ;-;
TD Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 LOL after that fight l actually went into the lab and tested this out for myself as l said i'd do. the only move that -may- give problems is 5d if l do sod too early/late. but then again noel would have to be in midrange and l wouldn't even be pressing anything anyway. theres almost no reason noel should be winning unless the mu player is making multiple mistakes - any by mistakes l mean autopiloting
FlyingVe Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) @Luna: ACtually, I thought you made good points. I think Noel has a random factor that helps her in this matchup, if that simplification makes sense. You actually convinced me. @Tempest: Rachel can attempt to get in quickly with wind. And even at that ideal spacing you have options. Oft times, IB, 5C (trade) but you recover first and can escape. Though Rachel is no where near as free as Tager. Also, I've seen your Mu, it's one of the best I've seen, for what that's worth. Edited April 1, 2011 by FlyingVe
Aginor Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 LOL after that fight l actually went into the lab and tested this out for myself as l said i'd do. the only move that -may- give problems is 5d if l do sod too early/late. but then again noel would have to be in midrange and l wouldn't even be pressing anything anyway. theres almost no reason noel should be winning unless the mu player is making multiple mistakes - any by mistakes l mean autopiloting My conclusions after testing are..... 1. Noel's 5d is pretty much Mu's SoD range. They're pretty much the same. If you use SoD in a blockstring, it's a HUGE guessing game. If you use SoD instantly after 5c or whatever normal, Noel can just IB 5d. If you wait, noel can just IB dash 5a or IB 5b and get a free CH. Unless somehow you can SoD Noel on reaction to her 5d. In fact, Noel's 5d can hit Mu's SoD if you use it alone because Mu extends her hitbox in the animation. 2. Lastly, how noel beats mu or any zoner is walk/push them to the corner and you rape them. 3. You still need to know the match up in order to beat Noel. Oh and uh....noel's 2d and 3c aren't really good pokes.....
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