Synthesis Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 2C 5C 6C into whatever. Barrier blocking increases your blockstun, giving me enough time to 5C you. In between the 5C and the 6C I can watch for your IB and check the spacing (based on whether I'm magnetized or not) and follow up with an attack if you can't 720 me from that spacing, such as landing a FC 6C if you do indeed 720. If you MTW, I can reaction 623C, if you 360 upon landing you run the risk of my jc counter hit. You can barrier, but it still gives mu the advantage if you come in like that.
A.X.I.S. Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 ^those are nice to know but its something your not gonna always do in a fight. keep in mind the other player is reacting to what you do so he may not do 360/MTW/whatever. also IB barrier is still good don't underestimate it. then again I'm a scrub so grain of salt.
Synthesis Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Of course he can react to what I do, but jumping in against Mu is probably one of the worst things a Tager player can do. Consider the space she controls with her stein placement and her fantastic anti-airs. The best idea is to hope for Mu to fuck up, get in with a bolt or a sledge and ride the momentum until she dies. Walking forward and blocking is also a great idea against her because her ground to ground is good and all, but you'll eventually force her to a corner. Keep in mind that Mu will eventually guard break Tager if he isn't careful though. A nice setup after 3C: 2B 5C 6C 6D 63214C(lvl2) 214D (oki) (6D 214D)xn until he jumps, in which case do 6D 4D 214D short dash 5C into midscreen blockstring mixup to better place him into a 5C 6C 4D IAD back 6C 214D 4[D] into whatever.
MainG_Jago Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Tager is nothing but a Tank waiting to strike his victim
FlyingVe Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I think the only way to settle this is to get Axis or some other good Tager to play against Ve and then record it. Then everyone can see what people are talking about that may or may not work. You asked and you shall receive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofHtmp85Bxs Heroic was definitely not at his best, but this is pretty much how the matchup plays out. You will notice the emphasis on patience by both players, and you will also notice how Mu can not keep Tager out indefinitely. Basically, we both played the matchup how it should be played, but Mu has a distinct advantage.
Synthesis Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Very nice video. That is a prime example of how this matchup should look.
MainG_Jago Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Thats what im talking we need videos and examples around here. most people are visual and kinestetic (4 give my spelling) learners. We need more videos and less arguing lol P.S when it come to a real Tager i c now that i need more Mu laser strategies and less Ragna physical stractegies lol
Shockna Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Is there something in Mu's 3C - 2B - Whatever blockstrings that are vulnerable to Tager's 360? I seem to get 360'd out of Blockstrings a lot, and since I dislike losing to Tagers (Mostly because the guy who kills me is a 360 spammer, and I'm still a nub at this game, so I'm trying to work on my weakness to command grabs). Usually I can keep him out with laser spamming, but eventually he'll just 2D his way in. I know this question is really only useful for people at my low level of play, but the Tager matchup thread seemed a more appropriate place to ask a Tager vs. Mu-specific question than general.
Zeromus_X Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 3C > 2B shouldn't be used in a blockstring, you're already at a disadvantage from 3C (unless I'm reading that wrong). You can cancel into steins, or special cancel it, but these are pretty unsafe from close up. Her C moves are just unsafe in general especially on IB, so try staggering with 2A, 2B (+1 on block) and ending blockstrings with JC-able moves so you can just get out of there if they're mashing 360 (if they're super mashy, throw out a j2C every now and then - get a nice combo on counter hit that will hopefully discourage them from doing that). One thing that really helped me with this matchup when I was starting was just staying fullscreen to 5C-range away and just watching what the Tager player does. If they're impatient, they'll probably try super jumping or sledging towards you - 5C/super jump jC to smack them and teach them not to do that. on CH 5C you can go into 6C combo to set up steins. Should be able to 5C his 2D as well, since he's crouching you'll get another free 6C. When setting up steins : 6D 4D 214D from fullscreen. If he tries to sledge through them, he'll get hit by the 214D. If it's not spaced perfectly, JC the steins, and get ready to: jC to swat him out of the air if he jumps land, 5C him if he tries something like sledge or 2D (can do 5C, 214D and move in for a blockstring or set up more orbs) land, 5D, 4D, 214D to fill up the rest of the bottom of the stage with mines
Synthesis Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Something that seems to work for me is 5C 5D j.2C (laser) dash 5B etc... Just be careful and watch for the IB on j.2C or the 5C.
Big Red Tie Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 (Mostly because the guy who kills me is a 360 spammer, and I'm still a nub at this game, so I'm trying to work on my weakness to command grabs). never stop jumping
bakahyl Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 never stop jumping Eventually he will start using colliders to grab you out of the air.
Shockna Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 If I'm not magnetized, do I have anything to fear from Collider if I'm not right next to him? >_>
Big Red Tie Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 Eventually he will start using colliders to grab you out of the air. but what if you stop jumping
bakahyl Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 If I'm not magnetized, do I have anything to fear from Collider if I'm not right next to him? >_> Neither do you have to fear his 360 or 720 if you are not near him, but you said that you are getting killed by a 360 spammer. Thus meaning that you were close. Besides you don't do any significant damage if you are trying to keep tager away with steins. (exception if he get's hit by a 214d somehow, which is not likely) If you are spamming steins on Tager, he will get his spark bolt.
Big Red Tie Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 you really shouldn't get hit by sparkbolt tager only gets one guess per sparkbolt, and you can even stuff it
bakahyl Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 The threat when tager has a sparkbolt will limit your normal keep away game. One sparkbolt per guess, and he gets a spark bolt every 25 or so seconds (even faster if he charges, which can occur because it has a guard point when using it to block a laser or 2). That's like 3 (or more) guesses per round and 1 wrong guess will likely turn the round into his favor. You will not be able to predict and super jump the sparkbolt all the time, so you will get magnetized by it by blocking it . Like i have said you will not be getting an upperhand when keeping Tager away, the lasers from the steins hardly do any damage, have 0 blockstun and you will risk getting magnetized by sparkbolt or something else somehow.
Big Red Tie Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 if you pay attention you should never have to block spark bolt from cross screen use charge lasers
bakahyl Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 The charge lasers are the problem when he has a sparkbolt,you will not likely going to use that because of it's extra delay. It's almost a free sparkbolt punish when you charge it. Not to mention, Tager has 10 primers, breaking one primer is hardly a problem for him and if you use the charged laser too often, he will sledge through it. Besides, do you actually think that you will never get hit by a sparkbolt (meaning not even blocking it, but dodging every time) by having a perfect prediction when he is going to use it? I doubt that. Furthermore Tagers will not throw out those bolts randomly, they will use it on a time when you are open or almost open, you will not be able to dodge that.
Synthesis Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Do you know what beats sparkbolt? Blocking. What else? Doing 214D when there is a stein on him to force him to NOT use sparkbolt. Even if he uses it, the explosion will knock him out and you'll still be fine. If you do 6D JC, you'll block sparkbolt and now there is a stein on him. Good for you! If he's sledging full screen, punish with 6C or 5C.
Big Red Tie Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 mu is never susceptible to sparkbolt from full screen sj charge lasers let you land safely you will break more than one primer if all he does is charge and try to tag you with bolt on the other side of the screen you don't need to predict sparkbolt if you are cross screen. you can literally just jump and start throwing out steins. explain how tager will only bolt when you're open, if you're never open? and yet will continue charging cross screen?
bakahyl Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 if claim that mu-12 is never open and everything she does ( including her charged lasers)is "safe" against Tager , then this match up is atleast 7-3 in mu's favor, which is clearly not the case. You are clearly underestimating tager's options, his high hp and primers agains mu. Her charged up lasers do leave her quite open, because by charging it increases your recovery time and it's very noticable which steins are charged because of her longer summoning animation. Furthermore charged lasers by itself doesn't achieve much. He still has 10 primers and if you break his last primer with the charged up lasers, he will immediadly recover from his stun animation by the left over 2 hits from the charged up laser. And then you will need to break his 10 primers again. You claim start jumping and throw out steins even when he has a sparkbolt, well how do you dodge a spark when landing. Spark bolt still goes through any kind of lasers, so you will get hit by it. Even on a trade (incase of of 236d laser), you are still magnetized.
Synthesis Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Super jump stein is VERY good against Tager. That's all he's saying. Because upon Mu landing her charged lasers will be going off and hitting Tager, she won't be comboed from sparkbolt even if she were to get hit by it (which is unlikely if timed correctly). That's it. Also, I'm saying this matchup is 7-3 for Mu.
bakahyl Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Even if you are not combo'ed from it you will be eiter magnetized or be hit and bounched towards tager while being magnetized. Both cases are bad, latter being much worse. Being magnetized will limit your stein spamming spree, his damage close is higher than yours and the only thing you have is a dp , which can be baited and it doesn't lead into any worthwhile combo. Lasers are imo not zoning tools against a decent Tager, because of it's many flaws. @synthesis, can you explain why this matchup is in such big favor for mu, i rather think it's 5.5-4.5 or 6-4 in mu's favor.
FlyingVe Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Why is understanding why this matchup is bad so hard for people? Mu's good at keeping Tager out, and Tager is bad at getting in. Posting things like, "Sparkbolt can hit" you over and over again doesn't change the matchup or your options against Spark. We've already discussed what to do about jumping Tager, Sparkbolt, and Sledge. It would be much more helpful to everybody if we could discuss Tager specific options and tactics rather than pointing out obvious things like Tager can AC you if you jump or mag is bad. Also, you can totally guard crush Tager, and also, what Synthesis said.
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