[CS1] Rachel vs Litchi

[Jason D.]

This thread is for discussing Rachel vs Litchi in BB:CS. Good luck!

[Jason D.]

Well, this match is not fun, but that's more to do with Litchi in general than any Rachel match-up stuff.

Let's start with zoning. It only works "okay" on Litchi, as she does have some good tools for dealing with it. Still though, it's your advantage, and better than nothing. For one she can put down her staff, flick it at you, and use that for cover as she comes in. Putting a lightning rod on top of her should discourage her from doing staff commands, though. She also has a fairly long air dash, and her j.B stretches out for a long distance too, so watch out for any IAD attempts from her. When trying to zone her, your biggest problems will be her 6B and her All Green super. Luckily, All Green takes a while to motion and isn't full screen, so it's usually not too bad, but do be aware if it if she has 50% meter and you're at about 3/4 screen distance. It's very fast and will beat anything you do. Her 6B is also not an issue at full screen, but if she is in range for it she'll probably throw it out. It's completely safe for her to do. She'll just keep fishing and fishing until she lands that counter-hit, which will lead to big easy damage. I've found that a good counter to 6B spam is just Rachel's 236A+D. The wind will push her out of range, and then she'll eat Lobelia in the face.

Let's talk more about Litchi's j.B. This move is godly, and under no circumstances should you ever try to anti-air it, no matter how predictable it is. You will lose, and end up taking a full combo for your efforts. Just block. Even trying to 2C it is risky, since with an air dash she'll probably pass over you and accidentally hit you from behind while the cat chair whiffs. Her j.B is a complete no-brainer move. She can close her eyes, press B, and it'll hit anywhere she needs it to.

Litchi pressure. For one, never stop blocking just because you're getting far away from her. Her 5C may push you far away, but it combos fully into her 3C, and then her low staff poke into her full bnb stuff. A lot of people make the mistake of not blocking, or not blocking low, after her 5C or 3C. Be patient. Her mix up game is also quite strong, as she has a variety of overheads. In fact, I'll get to each one in detail.

Her 6A overhead. This is where she chops downward, usually with assistance from her staff. It's actually pretty easy to see coming with practice, since she always does it from the same starters (5B, I think?). And if you block it, she can't cancel it with anything, so that's the end of her pressure. And like most overheads, if you have time to stand up, you have time to 2C her. Though be careful of her distance if you do go for the 2C, since her hitbox is kind of weird during the move, and you may auto-guard the hit, but then whiff with the electricity. If you think this may happen, just wind her forward into it. Better safe than sorry.

Next, she has her flipping dress overheads. These usually follow after an initial hit, and are really easy to see coming. It's also unsafe for her on block or IB, and you can cat chair them on reaction pretty easy. You shouldn't be seeing these too much during normal blockstrings, but keep an eye out for them during her staff super oki shenanigans.

Last but not least, there's her stripper pole diving leg overhead. This is my least favorite one. It comes out pretty fast, and even if you block it she can continue comboing. More depressingly, you can't usually cat chair it. She'll hit the auto-guard, and then pull her leg back in time for the electricity to whiff. At which point, you get comboed. Just block it.

Sadly, if you are being hit by her, she has an easier time comboing Rachel than most other people, and I'm pretty sure she has Rachel-specific stuff too. Might as well just get up and make a sandwich. No, but really, keep trying to tech. Never give up. If she does the combo where she jumps onto her staff and then tries to scoop you up with a downward kick, this is a VERY good time to try to tech. Litchis drop this part of the combo more often than anywhere else, and then you can j.C her if she stays up there. And if you DO tech out of her corner combo, be sure you're ready to block and possibly to block high. Litchi tends to get free resets off accidentally dropping combos. Don't let this happen to you.

When you're on the offensive, be aware that she has a DP if she's holding her staff. This means that she can also IB your blockstring and then DP you in the middle of it. If you think she's going to do this, cancel into the 3C, or anything else that's safe. When you do bait and block the DP, I've found the best punish is to run very slightly forward after the first hit, and then 5B -> 5CDC -> whatever.

[Jason D.]

So here's something I've been messing with lately that's either incredibly stupid, or incredibly brilliant. Probably both. Let's say Litchi hits you with any random hit, and has now taken you down to the corner. Five minutes later, when her combo is over, she'll do her staff super on top of you as you wake up, and attempt to start a new combo. Now, being stuck blocking all that is certainly no fun. So why block at all?

Instead, use the Cat Chair. Yeah, you heard me. Wake up, 2C, and then Rapid Cancel, and then block whatever's left. And take your time with the RC. You're fully invincible until the very end of the active frames. Now if the chair hits her, after the RC you'll only have about one or two staff hits to block before it flies up and away, so run on out of there before it comes down and before she techs. And if she blocks the chair, you've at least wasted enough to time to take her game down to one or two mix-ups instead of three or four. Not a bad deal. And you usually get a lot of meter yourself during Litchi's own combos, so having 50% in this match shouldn't be too hard.

Now obviously, this can be baited pretty hard if she knows you might try it. But seriously, who the hell would be expecting a cat chair during the staff super? Most of the time she's going to just run face-first into it thinking the staff will protect her. And on the plus side, when your local Litchi does catch on to this, she's going to start standing back and trying to bait you instead of attacking. So you've just made her afraid to attack during her own mix-up opportunity. Now she's going to waste her own time for you!

[fatjoe400]

That actually a good strategy to used during Litchi's Great Wheel mixups. Always seem to get hit after the third mixup lol

[Lord Knight]

So here's something I've been messing with lately that's either incredibly stupid, or incredibly brilliant. Probably both. Let's say Litchi hits you with any random hit, and has now taken you down to the corner. Five minutes later, when her combo is over, she'll do her staff super on top of you as you wake up, and attempt to start a new combo. Now, being stuck blocking all that is certainly no fun. So why block at all?

Instead, use the Cat Chair. Yeah, you heard me. Wake up, 2C, and then Rapid Cancel, and then block whatever's left. And take your time with the RC. You're fully invincible until the very end of the active frames. Now if the chair hits her, after the RC you'll only have about one or two staff hits to block before it flies up and away, so run on out of there before it comes down and before she techs. And if she blocks the chair, you've at least wasted enough to time to take her game down to one or two mix-ups instead of three or four. Not a bad deal. And you usually get a lot of meter yourself during Litchi's own combos, so having 50% in this match shouldn't be too hard.

Now obviously, this can be baited pretty hard if she knows you might try it. But seriously, who the hell would be expecting a cat chair during the staff super? Most of the time she's going to just run face-first into it thinking the staff will protect her. And on the plus side, when your local Litchi does catch on to this, she's going to start standing back and trying to bait you instead of attacking. So you've just made her afraid to attack during her own mix-up opportunity. Now she's going to waste her own time for you!

Depends - first observe their habits

if they still use 138333 > os hatsu, late neutral tech > 6D > 6C will destroy it

cat chair is ok, but with 50 meter, its best to just do late counter assault

pretty much the majority of litchi setups involve stopping roll (1), easy confirm if they do roll (3), and then stopping jump (6, 8, or 9), then mixup (333 usually)

so technically, she should have about 2-3 mixup attempts before last hit of daisharin, which her last chance (of course you could attempt to cat chair here and just trade)

so if you can block at least one, late counter assault when she goes for the second one and she's gone (or you can just counter assault the moment she touches you)

baiting counter assault is MUCH harder than baiting a reversal, since they are much much harder to bait, and if you see them bait it a lot you can just sit there not worrying about mixup

EDIT: on an unrelated note, 4D is the same speed as 6A, it's just that the animation is a bit more deceiving for most people.