[CS1] Mu-12 Oki and Setups Guide

[Aginor]

That set up you listed as favorite I think only works on delay techs imo. The makoto in that video wasn't emergency teching. Knowing most players they'd be doing emergency teching or rolls or quick get ups. Though quick get ups don't happen too often.

[FlyingVe]

Doesn't the 2B force a quick tech of some kind though? Otherwise they'd get OTG'd into the combo (option one).

[Aginor]

Once they hit the ground, they can emergency tech from 6c. You'll notice makoto lying on the ground for a while and that's how you can tell. The 2b in the setup is too slow it only catches people that tech really late due to the 6[d]. I'll try it later but that's the impression I got after watching it.

[Big Red Tie]

it's like the crossunder.

if they emergency tech you slide under them, if they don't tech you relaunch them. and these are their options (although in the oki i'm not sure if it punishes an emergency tech)

[Synthesis]

In regards to your 6C 5D 214D oki setup, I've been doing that for a while and lets say if you're about 3 character spaces away from the corner, I like mixing in 5D 4D 214D every now and then. If you space it correctly when the opponent gets up if they get hit by the 5D explosion, the 4D will also juggle them for another 3 hits. This means that if you do 5D 4D 214D 63214C(level3) at the correct spacing, you get stupid damage in the corner into another 5D 214D reset.

I really like this setup a lot but you really need to practice on the spacing for the lvl3 SoD combo setup.

Also, an oki setup I really like in the corner:

3C 6[D] 3C/6B/2B/j.2C mixup. xD

[Aginor]

When they neutral tech, they are already within 5d exploding already. By adding in 4d, the set up isn't safe anymore. The opponent can DP all they want or forward tech since you're wasting time doing 4d and exploding the stein. Sure it breaks primers but uhh....it really just isn't viable in high level play.

Regards to the other set up, you take too long summoning 6[d] that it only works on delay techs. That mix up is easily countered with a reversal.

[FlyingVe]

Regards to the other set up, you take too long summoning 6[d] that it only works on delay techs. That mix up is easily countered with a reversal.

Well, phooey. Thanks for testing it. Still, the fact that a reversal is what beats it could make it useful for baiting. Still, your setup (6C>5D>214D>2B) is better in every way. I guess reserve 6[D] for styling, and 3C out of 2B range.

[Aginor]

tbh, I haven't tested it. It's just coming from experience. Testing it right now and I'll edit this post with results.

EDIT: After trying it out, I was correct that reversal DP beats it. BUT I got Ragna to whiff his DP before. I'm guessing that's due to using 3c's max range and then doing the set up which would work in this case only because the laser is going to deal with the back tech, 2b after the 6[d] for forward tech and whether he choose to DP or not is up to him. If not, then it's a free mix up. Other than that, reversal DPs or supers that have range will beat it out.

[Synthesis]

tbqh, everything save for invincibility and block loses to DP. It's just another mixup to add to the list. Adding the 4D as well as the 5D is just another oki mixup. It isn't 100% perfect, but it's useful to mix in every now and then as long as you use it wisely. I wouldn't suggest using it against Ragna with 50% meter, but by all means abuse the shit out of it against Rachel and Hazama (at the right spacing)

[FlyingVe]

This is true, but in the case of 6[D] and your mixup, if they are totally inferior to another option, there isn't much point. Especially given how solid Aginor's option is. Hell, its borderline DP proof.

[Synthesis]

The 6[D] setup is just so you can do 6B 6]D[ 2B 3C 2B etc... so you can get a 3k damage combo off an overhead, or you can just do a 3C instead, the laser will either help the combo or whiff, but it's a mixup because if either are blocked, you're free to do what you want and if it is midscreen, you push them into the stein for a potential 214D threat. This setup is ONLY good if your opponent respects you. You can always bait a DP by not doing anything, but then the opponent still can't do anything because of the fear of the laser. Try it every now and then. It's pretty good.

Of course, the 5D 214D option is perfectly solid, but you get 0 mixup off it. It just forces a block (a safe one) but with oki you have to take a risk (unless you're CT Rachel) to get Mu's mixup since her options are so very slow.

Has anyone here experimented with 5D 6D IAD j.C land throw mixup yet? I think it's super sexy but it loses to DP of course.

[FlyingVe]

Near the corner:

3C>2B>5C>6C>5D>jB>jC>j2C>j5D>j2D>236D>(land)>5D>(JC)>...

From there you can do whatever, jC, j2C, empty jump, jC>6B, tick throw, SoD or whatever. As with any 236D setup is has trouble with IB>DP but the stiens are clustered really closely so it keeps people pinned better than the midscreen 6C>5D>6D>236D setup.

[Synthesis]

Near the corner:

3C>2B>5C>6C>5D>jB>jC>j2C>j5D>j2D>236D>(land)>5D>(JC)>...

From there you can do whatever, jC, j2C, empty jump, jC>6B, tick throw, SoD or whatever. As with any 236D setup is has trouble with IB>DP but the stiens are clustered really closely so it keeps people pinned better than the midscreen 6C>5D>6D>236D setup.

I haven't tried this yet, but that looks freaking sexy. Would reversal DP beat it? It seems like ID would catch you before you can land.

[Aginor]

Of course, the 5D 214D option is perfectly solid, but you get 0 mixup off it. It just forces a block (a safe one) but with oki you have to take a risk (unless you're CT Rachel) to get Mu's mixup since her options are so very slow.

It forces a block, they're stuck there blocking. Ask yourself which way are they blocking? Use a normal that will hit them.

tbh, BBCS is a VERY defensive game. I'd rather take no risk and try to get something from it than taking a huge risk of not know what they will do on tech. At least you're forcing a situation on them. After you recover from 2b, you regain all your options. Look at Bang, Litchi and Ragna. Their styles are pretty much NO risk, and HIGH reward. If you land a hit with that set up you get HIGH reward for NO risk.

And 5d 6d iad j.c land will probably only work on certain characters. It will cross up on some and won't cross up on others and obviously I would think it depends if the character is standing or not.

[FlyingVe]

I haven't tried this yet, but that looks freaking sexy. Would reversal DP beat it? It seems like ID would catch you before you can land.

I dunno actually, I'll test it and check. It loses to everything that usually beats 236D, so DPs, Guard Points (weak answer), Counters, and low profile moves (Noel/Makoto 3C, etc...). In these situations I think Aginor's setup is superior from a strictly frame-data standpoint, however, this one is very confusing and offers different mixup options, and the more options the opponent is worried about (between different oki setups) the better.

Also, you are right, it's mad sexy.

[Zeromus_X]

Really need to print this thread some time...

Something I was messing with...how viable is 236A in pressure? Was doing some stuff in the corner like "5D JC j2C, 236A, falling attack or land 214D" or "5D 2367A, land 214D"...course, this is assuming they're already too scared to do anything but neutral tech.

[FlyingVe]

Here's a few places I use it

- In the corner after ending with j2C. ...>j2C>4[D]>j44>236A. It loses to quick forward rolls, but they can't jump out and forces a block on all other techs, which in turn sets up mixup.

-xD>xD>236A. If you know they like trying to air dash over your steins this will keep them out.

[Synthesis]

I find that mixup such as 4D IAD j.C 236A land against Tager and other characters who have slower pokes works pretty well on wakeup if you condition them to respect you. Mu is all about conditioning.

[FlyingVe]

You can do a wonky frame trap thing too that's kind similar to that (you reminded me of it), j2C(hit)>4[D]>j66>j236A. It's not that good from a frames standpoint but it looks really screwy, and people will try to poke when they can't.

Also, tic's after j236A seem to work really well.

[Aginor]

I find that mixup such as 4D IAD j.C 236A land against Tager and other characters who have slower pokes works pretty well on wakeup if you condition them to respect you. Mu is all about conditioning.

If you're talking about an all conditioning character, Mu is not one of them. If you want a character that is ALL about conditioning, go play Noel or Tsubaki. Sure Mu needs to condition opponents and that's what you should do but she isn't all about it. She's more about oki and setups with mid-ranged normals than conditioning opponents.

[Synthesis]

Seems the oki is used to condition them to tech a certain way.

Also, just watched Pulsr's oki and setups video and noticed a problem after hours of practicing his 2D j.2C 6D oki setups:

2D j.2C 6D for back roll MUST hit as soon as the opponent hits the ground.

Forward roll is more lenient, and, in fact if you want to punish them both more easily, jump as soon as you 2D, get to about her stein height and j.2C 6D airdash. If they forward roll, hit confirm with j.A j.C j.2C land 2B 5C 6C 214D backdash 6C 2D j.2C rinse and repeat. This works on everyone (barring testing) except for Carl. You must be lower for the j.A to hit carl.

The forward tech punish also works as a back tech punish, except you don't actually punish with a combo. You just force a quick High-low game, and if they get hit by the initial j.C, you get a nice fatty combo into a reset.

This setup is VERY hard to use to punish quick get ups. To punish those, you can do 2D j.2C (must be higher) 6D ad.A j.C land 9 j.A j.C j.2C land 2B 5C 6C 214D. This can be very hard to do because if you mistime any of the attacks, they'll be too high for the spike. This is especially noticeable on Bang.

EDIT: If someone can gather together all of the setups listed in this thread, I can organize them and put them in the original post. I'm far too busy myself to do this, but I'll do my best to also invent new and intriguing setups using Pulsr's setups as a motivator. Those setups are very intuitive, and I'd like to find more that cover a broader range of options and mixups.

EDIT EDIT: 2D j.2C 6D IAD j.A j.C j.2C also works on no tech and quick get up. Here are the combos.

Quick get up: 2D j.2C 6D ad.A j.C j.2C land dash 2B 5C 6C 214D j.2C dash 2B 6A j.C j.2C >>>> 2200 into 3300 reset for 5500 setup damage.

No tech: 2D j.2C 6D ad.A j.C j.2C land dash 2B 6A j.C j.2C >>>> about 3300 damage

Forward roll: 2D j.2C 6D ad.A j.C j.2C land dash 2B 5C 6C delay 214D backdash 6C etc...

Back roll: 2D j.2C 6D ad.C land dash 2B 3C xxxx 214D

Neutral tech: 2D j.2C 6D ad.C/ad.C whiff land 2B xxxx combo.

Fun!

EDIT EDIT EDIT: Found out that this setup is character specific. Here goes:

Tager/Hakumen/Ragna/Bang - Easy to do. Need to be about halfway between the ground and the 2D stein, and you must delay the j.6D after the j.2C or else when you do ad.A j.C j.2C, the j.2C won't spike because they will get hit by the j.6D laser.

Litchi/Hazama etc... - Relatively difficult. Timing is pretty specific and Hazama needs to be spaced perfectly for a proper follow up.

I would like to post a video with this setup, but I have 0 recording devices. Can anyone help out? Also, you guys should really post, that way I can update with more information without having to edit or double post. >:3

Edited November 1, 2010 by Synthesis

[TD]

Looks like you'll have to psychic their wakeup... :/

[Synthesis]

It's actually reactable. I tested this on a computer set to random tech. The setup I found uses the exact same setup to do everything, and you can react to the sound of the laser hitting to do the j.A into what ever. It's fast, but if you've played GG, you know how to do that.

[NickExtreme1]

Extremely long and useful post about oki...

Might help out with recording these set-ups sometime soon, but I have to pratice these myself first.

[Synthesis]

I just recorded them. I'll edit them and post them soon. It's bad quality (from a digital camera) but you'll get the idea.