The Future of NorCal INSTALL! γ-3 [Monthly Ranbats]

[Dacidbro]

Since this is a mini tournament, I would encourage a pot fee of ~5, to encourage as many people to come out as we can (cheap entry, more people can afford making it out). No venue fee is amazing, and I don't think anyone will be too hard up about the pot size being 10% less when there's no venue fee.

Sounds -truly badass- Chun, good stuff.

[TaoFTW]

Since this is a mini tournament, I would encourage a pot fee of ~5, to encourage as many people to come out as we can (cheap entry, more people can afford making it out). No venue fee is amazing, and I don't think anyone will be too hard up about the pot size being 10% less when there's no venue fee.

Sounds -truly badass- Chun, good stuff.

tl;dr version

As much as we don't want to charge a small venue fee, part of the vision for NCI is to build the FG scene that rivals NCR. The reality is that a big/small pot will never reach out to a non-competitive casual community. Since this is a mini tournament, it's all the more important to start saving to subsidize hotel costs; we are not a SF4 community and we cannot draw out a crowd bigger than 200 people. If we are going to reserve a hotel ballroom, then we need to save up at least $1k ($2k to reserve hotel ballroom for 2 days). Charging a small venue fee will help make this idea into a reality.

Am I going to be using it for my own purposes? I won't deny my need for money, but I can live without stealing money from people. :3 This is a community effort and I believe my sacrifice to the FG scene is proof that I -will- steal your fight money. We have five months to get ready for SUPER-BLAZING NCI. It sounds like a long time, but March will pounce on you before you can say, "MY FIGHT MONEYYYYYYYYYY!"

The following people are those whom I can trust with any large sum of currency: SprtJuice, PhaethonH, Kijiyama, Katanadash, Tsubasa and I. If you want to join the list, then you need to earn our respect.

***

Short version

Charge $2 venue fee; money will be used for one of the following reasons:

- Subsidize hotel costs

- Purchasing NCI equipment

- End-of-the-year ranbat pot(?)

People who will be in charge of collecting venue fee:

- TaoFTW

- Spirit Juice

- PhaethonH

- KatanaDash

- Kijiyama

- Tsubasa

[Dacidbro]

Okay.. Make sure the reasoning for everything is very clearly broadcast then, people will start to get nervous when there's a 2 dollar entry fee and some of the initially small pot is missing.

[KatanaDash]

I personally see no problem with 8 dollar entry fee. 5 dollars for pot, 1 for SJSU comp sci club, 2 for Norcal's future benefit.

Would that be acceptable to every one?

[Chun]

That seems too high. It seems in bad taste to take 2$ for NCI future and give 1$ to SJSU CS Club when the venue is free already, in my opinion.

If you're going to 8, we might as well lower the overall 5$, or balance the two extra fees so that SJSU is equal to or more.

~Chun

[Spirit Juice]

The best things in life are free, niggas.

[Yggjrasil]

The best things in life are free niggas.

QFT.

[TaoFTW]

That seems too high. It seems in bad taste to take 2$ for NCI future and give 1$ to SJSU CS Club when the venue is free already, in my opinion.

If you're going to 8, we might as well lower the overall 5$, or balance the two extra fees so that SJSU is equal to or more.

~Chun

tl;dr

Here's Keystone II's reasoning for charging their venue fees. They have SF4, 3s, MvC2, and every major capcom game in their household. You can only get in by invitation only and must pay a small venue fee. The majority of the money goes towards buying new equipment for tournament use/casuals, help cover hotel costs for NCR, and show that KSII is legit. Yes they pocket some of the money, but the majority of money goes back to the community. If you want some proof, then look at NCR and their local community.

If they can do it, then why can't we do something of that caliber? It's true that we don't have any person who, singlehandedly, owns every single ASW cab. But if we can show the Capcom scene that we are self-sufficient, then we can work with some bigger tournament organizers to get BB/MB/GG on a greater scale.

Also, Dacid is right; you have to be upfront about where ALL the money goes. If you don't, then you'll get a rehash of Blanka707. MAKE IT RAIIIIIIN!

Edit: So assuming we get 40 entrants at every NCI ranbat and 10 for the biweekly, we will get $90 every month. Reserving a hotel ballroom for a 2-day event is $2k. If I can convince the hotel sales staff to give us a discount, then that's $1k - $1.5k.

Ranbat Savings: $90 x 5 = $450

Registration: $5 x 80 = $400

Sponsors (Brokentier, Aksys, Character Design Artists): $20 x 3 = $60

The more people who register for our tournament means more money we can save from our Ranbat fund. More savings means more raffle prize giveaway, bigger pot, and the less you have to pay for registration.

Also, we've hosted NCI ranbats before where we had $10 buy ins. We still managed to have 30 people come out to pay n' play.

***

Short Version

Charging $2

Pro:

- Better chance to host a big tournament in a hotel ballroom.

- More publicity and legit tournaments (possibility of getting connections with EVO and NCR)

Con:

- Accountability and liability; people can always steal your fight money and leave everyone butthurt.

[Chun]

Then I would suggest dropping the tournament-reward pot size if there's going to be money for the investment of a future venue. In other words, rather than 8$, drop to 5$ where 2 goes to NCI future funding, 1 goes to SJSU, and the other 2 towards the reward, or use 6$ so that 3 goes to pot, 2 NCI, etc.

I also disagree about limits being 8-10$ not simply because they appear high, but they intimidate newcomers. People will be more receptive to the buy-in if it's 5 or 6 bucks, and I am 99% sure there will be a good amount of newcomers into the scene there to enter for fun and learn the game. I can already name 5 off the top of my head from just people I've met on campus; there are many inexperienced players that do want to participate.

As a side note: I am against the idea of an end-of year pot/pool. This pot would make more sense if there is a consistent attendance of the same players every month paying the same risk/return; if someone doesn't go to 90% of the tournaments then goes to the last event, does it not seem fair to the one who came to every single one? This disparity concerns me.

Sorry if it seems like a lot of negatives but I'm doing a lot of thinking on my part for the advertisement and hooking front here.

~Chun

[Dacidbro]

No, feedback is important, and I also disagree with an end of the year pot. It gives randoms absolutely no hope to win the money (Even if they win locally, they will likely be crushed in the insane comp on the last tournament fighting for a huge pot)

I too would support a 6 dollar fee, at 3 towards pot 2 towards NCI and 1 to SJ. That sounds reasonable to me. I don't want anyone intimidated by large buy in, we want the scene to grow.

[TaoFTW]

Then I would suggest dropping the tournament-reward pot size if there's going to be money for the investment of a future venue. In other words, rather than 8$, drop to 5$ where 2 goes to NCI future funding, 1 goes to SJSU, and the other 2 towards the reward, or use 6$ so that 3 goes to pot, 2 NCI, etc.

I also disagree about limits being 8-10$ not simply because they appear high, but they intimidate newcomers. People will be more receptive to the buy-in if it's 5 or 6 bucks, and I am 99% sure there will be a good amount of newcomers into the scene there to enter for fun and learn the game. I can already name 5 off the top of my head from just people I've met on campus; there are many inexperienced players that do want to participate.

As a side note: I am against the idea of an end-of year pot/pool. This pot would make more sense if there is a consistent attendance of the same players every month paying the same risk/return; if someone doesn't go to 90% of the tournaments then goes to the last event, does it not seem fair to the one who came to every single one? This disparity concerns me.

Sorry if it seems like a lot of negatives but I'm doing a lot of thinking on my part for the advertisement and hooking front here.

~Chun

Dakanya brought in a good point. People who play casually will only show up for casuals. They might enter a big tournament once in a blue moon, but you won't see them coming out consistently. I don't really care if you guys trim down the pot size. Sprt wants a small buy in cause he's poverty.

No, feedback is important, and I also disagree with an end of the year pot. It gives randoms absolutely no hope to win the money (Even if they win locally, they will likely be crushed in the insane comp on the last tournament fighting for a huge pot)

I too would support a 6 dollar fee, at 3 towards pot 2 towards NCI and 1 to SJ. That sounds reasonable to me. I don't want anyone intimidated by large buy in, we want the scene to grow.

$6 buy in for BB? (3 for venue; 3 for pot)

$8 buy in for GG/MB? (3 for venue; 5 for pot)

I'm cool with that as long as you guys are cool with it.

[Chun]

Dakanya brought in a good point. People who play casually will only show up for casuals. They might enter a big tournament once in a blue moon, but you won't see them coming out consistently. I don't really care if you guys trim down the pot size cause it's not my tournament.

I think that's the wrong way to look at it. People that have actively told me they'd like to learn the game will consistently go and enter for fun so long as the opportunity to play and learn from other players exist. I mean, we got DrayneO during the the SVGL all-day passes by association. More people is always good, and encouragement towards others to enter to understand how it all goes down is better.

Any extra attendance, no matter how small, is good.

I again do not understand why the press for 8$ still exists. GG and MB players also exist on this campus; if this isn't a major but a sort of intermediary part of the scene, why push the high fees? Did the lower-fee buy in for MB and GG not help the attendance and interest for those games as well, despite the model being different than Eudamonia?

People that travelled to Eudemonia will throw in to learn from the best around. Making it low potentially gets more local play to throw in too.

But this is for the GG/MB organizers to agree or disagree with.

[qwerty]

sjsu gg/mb players:

aj

sean

[TaoFTW]

I think that's the wrong way to look at it. People that have actively told me they'd like to learn the game will consistently go and enter for fun so long as the opportunity to play and learn from other players exist. I mean, we got DrayneO during the the SVGL all-day passes by association. More people is always good, and encouragement towards others to enter to understand how it all goes down is better.

I again do not understand why the press for 8$ still exists. GG and MB players also exist on this campus; if this isn't a major but a sort of intermediary part of the scene, why push the high fees? Did the lower-fee buy in for MB and GG not help the attendance and interest for those games as well, despite the model being different than Eudamonia?

People that travelled to Eudemonia will throw in to learn from the best around. Making it low potentially gets more local play to throw in too.

But this is for the GG/MB organizers to agree or disagree with.

So I assume that the right way should get casual players to pay-to-play in a competitive setting for minimum loss? If that is true, then SVGL should charge BBCS 25 cents per play. The better way to look at it is this - charge free play (in a competitive setting) for no loss. There will be casual stations at NCI and non-competitive players should be encouraged to play. Doing this solves two important issues: (1) casual players are encouraged to play for fun and (2) they'll be exposed to high level play IRL. NorCal Regionals does this exceptionally well and you don't have to pay a dime to watch high level competition.

The reality is that casual players don't want to spend a dime on anything when they know they get bodied. The ones who don't, like Drayne_O, are exceptionally awesome and deserve to have raffle prize giveaways. ;3 The GG/MB players that you talked about on campus were Riotblade, Tenkai and AJ; they helped to make NCI to what it is today. SJSU, as far as I am concerned, is a dead scene. There are no -new- competitive players who are willing to break limb-for-limb to learn a game that'll screw you up the ass. Anyone who repped SJSU at NCI last year can vouch for this.

So yes, I agree with you that building the scene is important. Charging a higher venue fee doesn't discourage competitive play nor casuals. On the contrary, high competitive play inspires casual players to join the competitive scene. If you want people to join the community, then you should encourage high level competition in a fun and friendly environment. What better way to do that than to support numerous casual setups?

Btw Chun, you're bringing up some important points. Don't take this criticism as something destructive. So keep the ball rolling.

[Chun]

I see, thank you.

This year came about with some fresh blood because of the previous graduation. I feel it is the best chance to get newer blood into the scene by arcade advertisement and word of mouth. It's true, the casual scene that feels they have no chance will not apply; however, consistently keeping the fee low makes the entrance into tournaments more attainable, as the lower the fee, the lower the intimidation to eventually join up, and first price impressions are lasting. I don't expect a packed room Oct 2, but I'd like to plant the seeds to create a web of communication through the freshmen in dorms and open more eyes through the people that come by.

The funny thing is people that play BB and GG have been hidden. They have no reason to talk or mention that they play the game because there is no place to bring the topic up; I learned that 4 people last year that were in the Club did play BB and asked me about the game since I was watching match videos. I've seen in the last few times I visited the SJSU arcade 3 people that I don't recognize playing GG; I plan to talk to the arcade to accept posting a flyer about the event. In other news, two weeks ago I was invited to a dorm room to play BBCS due to the NCI videos, and played with 7 people that had the game for a few hours. They expressed interest in learning characters better (3 of them wanted to learn Taokaka, then two Ragnas, and two Makotos). Two club officers expressed interest in GG since hearing and playing BB. Melty Blood is notably less popular but many have heard of the game since the EVO tournament.

I'm saying SJSU is fresh with new players that can be grasped, especially since this venue currently is convenient to them and friendly; I do have plans to use this place again if it proves successful next month. Keeping the NCI and venue donation constant is what really matters in your long term calculation, so lowering the main pot would have more positive effects without as many negatives.

~Chun

[Spirit Juice]

The problem is that a lot of casual players just like being casual. No matter what you do, they'd rather just mash buttons with their friends in a non-competitive environment, rather than go to tournaments and get bodied by better players and grow from it. It's very, VERY hard to get a casual player to actually show up to tournaments and want to be competitive.

[OrionXElite]

Just wanted to something to this critique of how to appeal to an audience. So far, everyone has been spot on, encouraging interaction of new players with high level players IRL will most definitely be a good way to spread the scene. BUT one thing people NEED to keep in mind is that not only does the level of play matter, the variety of play matters!! You can't have people hyped up over something like BB when a ranbat has 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Tagers and 1 Bang, 1 Ragna, 1 Litchi and 1 Jin. We need players to be willing in more casual play to show some of the newer players the mechanics of not just the games, but the characters themselves! The Clocktower Tourney last Saturday is a prime example. It was a good tourney but there were about 20 people who entered and literally 10 of them were Tager players! Even in casuals there were nothing but Tagers! I purposely played other characters for the sake of showing other characters. I actually had a few of the SF guys talking to me about the game and they liked the variety of characters in the game as I was showing them and they actually got more interested in it as opposed to when it started when everyone was just sitting there going "Why the fuck are there so many TAGERS?!?!?!?"

So one thing we need to encourage in the casual settings are a wide variety of characters being showcased to those who are new to it so we can actually let them see how it works before they dive in.

Just my 2 cents, felt like throwing it out there.

[Crosell]

While I don't know why NorCal loves tager so much I do agree. More Rachel players :P . But I think the interaction between high level and low level players is important. The thing I loved the most about NCI was doing the pre tournament casuals against Dacid, and having him give me some props and critiques in my overall horrible gameplay. If we can have the higher ups work with the lower people to help them get their confidence up to participate more. *shrugs* just my thoughts.

[blk_mage]

So is October 2nd at SJSU a set thing?

[Chun]

Yes, it's a for sure, so now the difficulty lies in Setups. I'll get a layout quickly drawn up.

[qwerty]

i'll be able to bring setups and power strips if needed

[ZONG_one]

Good shit on that sig Qwert.

First thing I've ever commended you on.

[Dacidbro]

While I don't know why NorCal loves tager so much I do agree. More Rachel players :P . But I think the interaction between high level and low level players is important. The thing I loved the most about NCI was doing the pre tournament casuals against Dacid, and having him give me some props and critiques in my overall horrible gameplay. If we can have the higher ups work with the lower people to help them get their confidence up to participate more. *shrugs* just my thoughts.

Lol

You're overcritical, you're doing well. ^_^

[Chun]

i'll be able to bring setups and power strips if needed

Power strips will be minimal since there are tons of center-table double strips in the CS clubroom that will hold like 6 setups each. I'm more concerned about setups since I expect the causal scene will want to give it a shot; I pitched the tournament and learning certain games by-play Saturday to the GameDev Club yesterday and to most people I've met.

~Chun

[KatanaDash]

I can bring a set up on the 2nd of oct. I will also volenteer to run the GGAC brackets, with back up from Qwerty.