[CS1] Valkenhayn Technical Discussion

[RaKune]

on challenge number 7 i cant seem to get the trasnform d into b c what am i doing wrong? and i dont dare to even touch 8-10 if i cant get this one done. i also didnt know where to post this so i chose her eif you can direct me where i can go to get help will be much apreciated thnx

[STenSatsu]

Play like Ragna except your mixup is better and your defense is super shit. Relentless offense cause otherwise you are probably going to get stepped on by anyone above c tier lol.

[dooku]

Haven't seen this anywhere, and it's better than the 6C midscreen combo on the first page:

[h] 6C > 5D > j.A > dj.AAA > j.236B > j.236A > j.5C > j.B > j.B > land 5D > 5B > 5C > jc.B > j.214B > 9DD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (3636 damage, 43% MG)

Edit: Actually this seems character specific. I'll do a little more messing with it, doesn't look like it works on hazama. I'll mess around a little more since I have nothing better to do.

Edit 2: This seems more universal:

[h] 6C > 5D > j.A > (delay) dj.AAA > j.236B > j.236A > j.5C > j.B > j.B > land 5D > 5B > 5C > jc.B > j.214B > 9DD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (3636 damage, 43% MG)

The delay allows valkenhayn to fall slightly so that the 2nd hit of the dj.AAA will hit everyone except for Noel and Tsubaki. I'm not sure if 6C > 5D > j.A actually works on them. I can't ever get it to hit except in corner, which is pointless because you can do much higher damaging stuff then.

[Ronove]

I'm still having a little trouble in getting consistent with 7C > [w]j.B > [w]j.B > land D > 5B , like I can't still exactly figure out what I'm doing right when the 5B manages to hit or what I'm doing wrong when I land and the opponent recovers during 5B's animation. It feels like I am doing it with the same speed in both cases but it's like sometimes I can't prevent the opponent from recovering just as he's touching the ground. Are there any specific visual clues I should look for so that I can gradually work on them (and improve my consistency, right now I get that string one time out of five, pretty bad)?

[faultydefense]

some things that tend to make it easier for me is

super jumping into XX > 236X > 236X> 7C...

delaying the first or second w[j.B] as long as i can

and having the opponent be about even or below me when I go to do the 7C, if there any good distance above you go for 5C or odds are the second [w]b will miss or they'll be able to tech before you land and hit them.

all of these are important yet none are required...i've started opting for 7C over 5C into [w]j.b whenever I can because if feels like if you're off in one of these categories you can use one of the others to compensate for it on the fly

[NeonCrusader]

Meterless combo after rising [h]j.C (albeit CH only :|)

On standing opponents:

[h]CH j.C, 7dj.D, 3C, j.B, 5A, 5B, 236B, j236B, j.CD, j.B, j.214B, 9DD, j.B, dj.B, j.C. 3165 damage, 35 meter gain.

On crouchers:

[h]CH j.C, 7dj.D, 3C, j.B, 5B, 236B, j236B, j.CB, j.B, land D, 5B, 5C/2C, j.B, j.214B, 9DD, j.B, dj.B, j.C. 3762 damage, 43 meter gain.

First few hits have fairly tight execution in both versions. In the croucher combo, 6B 5B 632146D might be possible if you omit the j.B before Mondlicht and just TK Mondlicht off of 5C/2C.

[NumeroGaijin]

Valk's Kara Cancels are his wolf cancels your talking about right? So what CAN cancel into wolf form. for what I know

236A/B/C

j214B

6C

From what I'm reading, Valk's mix-ups are like Bang's bumper mix-ups without the bumpers but with wolf form. His low move 2B is slow IMO but I guess a 236B into Wolf cancel mix-up is the better high-low mix-up option for pressure from what I'm reading from your post.

Here are all you can cancel into wolf

236A/B/C

j214B

6C

6B

5A (i can't remember)

2A

[-Tsu-]

Has anyone found a case where 7C relaunch works and 5C doesnt and/or vice versa, or can we just do it by preference?

[faultydefense]

Generally it seems that you can make adjustments at different parts of your combo (like delaying a wolf 236X or superjumping instead of normal jumping) to accommodate doing one C dash over another. There are midscreen combos that you'll have to do 5C to reach them.

On the opposite side tho, it seems like you'll tend to hit the ground faster after the 2nd [w] j.B from doing the 7C dash (due to extra downward momentum). This can be important (and helpful, maybe even necessary sometimes) in hitting the stand B, especially late in combos where they could otherwise tech or where the timing gets extremely tight. IMO the main point is it makes the [h]5B easier...

[Ronove]

and having the opponent be about even or below me when I go to do the 7C, if there any good distance above you go for 5C or odds are the second [w]b will miss or they'll be able to tech before you land and hit them.

Hmmm.

So like, at the point when you execute 236B you pay attention to both the opponent's height and yours and if the opponent's about aligned/below then you go for 7C and if it's way above it's 5C? If that's the case then I think I realize why I had trouble getting it consistently, which wasn't due my timing with [w]j.B (which as I said was exactly the same both when I managed to actually hit with landing 5B and when the move wouldn't hit) but likely due to the difference in height everytime I performed the bit of combo that preceeded that string, meaning I have to get a consistent timing when executing the 9D/5D > 236xx > 236xx > etc so that I can get the opponent everytime at that specific height and be able to comfortably do 7C > [w]j.B > [w]j.B > land D 5B

Thanks a lot for the tip, time to grind dat training mode again

[-Tsu-]

I ask because I've been using 5C pretty much exclusively, the timing for the Bs after 7C just doesnt "click" with me for some reason:psyduck:, and adjusting for height in order to end up under them is alot easier for me in comparison.

So far i've been able to connect the 5b in everything i've tried thats supposed to end in (stuff)> land> 5b> super, but since i'm a scrub with hcb+f type motions () i havent been able to see if the super connects from all of them, which is the only thing i can think of that would mess it up.

[RaKune]

i cant seem to get the transfrom jd jb jc to connect on challenge 7 what am i doing wrong?

[-Tsu-]

i cant seem to get the transfrom jd jb jc to connect on challenge 7 what am i doing wrong?

It'd help is u told us exactly what was going wrong. I'm gonna guess that either 1) they tech before the j.B or 2) the j.B goes right over them.

1) Your doing something to slow, jc> j.D> j.B has to be done pretty fast

2) hit the [w] j.aaa, lower on their body so you dont go too high on the jump cancel

And if its that your not transforming, be sure you're hitting d after the jump cancel, and not before

[RaKune]

It'd help is u told us exactly what was going wrong. I'm gonna guess that either 1) they tech before the j.B or 2) the j.B goes right over them.

1) Your doing something to slow, jc> j.D> j.B has to be done pretty fast

2) hit the [w] j.aaa, lower on their body so you dont go too high on the jump cancel

And if its that your not transforming, be sure you're hitting d after the jump cancel, and not before

Yeah thats exactly what happens im always above them when i jump cancel jb and usually hits them with 5c on the ground

[Coinage]

[h] 5B > 3C > 2C > 6B > 2C > 6C > 2C > sj.DAA > j.236A > j.236B > C > j.B > j.B > Land > D > 5B > 632146D (6389 Damage, 50% Required)

question.... how do combo the land> 5b > strum wolf. everytime i do j.b > j.b, my opponent is down before i am and when I 5b, the combo could have been tech out. So I am missing my timing somewhere in this part i believe

[STenSatsu]

Probably incorrect height before the 5c>j.b or not doing the 2 j.b fast enough. Using 5c, you want to be slightly below them normally.

[Coinage]

okay then i must be timing my c wrong then. Every time I done it so far, i am on the same level as my opponent instead of being slightly below them. I will try this out and ill see if i can get it done. Thanks for the tip

[STenSatsu]

If you're on the same level or a bit above, try using 7c instead.

[NeonCrusader]

Another combo post... maximum damage off of CH 2C in corner, I think.

[h]CH 2C, dash, 2C, 236B RC, 2C, 6B, 2C, 6C, 2C, j.214B, 2D, 236A, land, 236B, j.236B, j.236A, 5C, j.B, j.B, land, 5D, 5B, 632146D.

Does 9.3k damage; haven't tested 5B 2C 632146D against Tager/whoever the heck else it hits, but it'd probably go up to 9.5k. Can add 3C at the end for an additional 20 damage if it'll kill, I guess.

[NickExtreme1]

Another combo post... maximum damage off of CH 2C in corner, I think.

[h]CH 2C, dash, 2C, 236B RC, 2C, 6B, 2C, 6C, 2C, j.214B, 2D, 236A, land, 236B, j.236B, j.236A, 5C, j.B, j.B, land, 5D, 5B, 632146D.

Does 9.3k damage; haven't tested 5B 2C 632146D against Tager/whoever the heck else it hits, but it'd probably go up to 9.5k. Can add 3C at the end for an additional 20 damage if it'll kill, I guess.

Is there enough meter gain after the RC to fill your heat gauge back up to 100% before 632146D? If so, you could try a TK 236236C for more damage?

[NeonCrusader]

Nah, you don't get another 50. You gain back something like 42 though.

Actually now that I think about it, TK j.236236C may be possible if you're under 35% HP due to auto heat gain. In that case, 10.3k, I think.

EDIT:

Okay yeah I just did some retesting:

with 5B 2C 632146D ender: 9476

And 35% HP or less, you can add j.236236C to hit 10276 and 10436, respectively. Valkenhayn has a conditional 10k break >_>

I have a feeling that 10k is possible without 35% HP though, will try some stuff later on.

[TornAparT]

6C > 5D > j.A > dj.AAA > j.236B > j.236A > j.5C > j.B > j.B > land 5D > 5B > 5C > jc.B > j.214B > 9DD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (3636 damage, 43% MG)

With this combo I can't get it on certain characters:

Noel/Tsubaki: can't get the first j.a at all

Litchi/Hazama/Carl: second hit of dj.AAA wiffs

Rachel: j.236B wiffs

What am I doing wrong?

[faultydefense]

Corner, 100% meter required to start (150% used), NO counter hit or below 35% health required

(2C) > j.236236C (3 hits) > RC 2C > 6B > 2C > 6C > 2C > j.214B > 2C > 5C > j.A > 236B > 236A > 7C > j.B > j.B > 5B > 2C > j.B > j.B > j.C > j.236236C

96XX dmg (wolf attacks in bold)

[dooku]

6C > 5D > j.A > dj.AAA > j.236B > j.236A > j.5C > j.B > j.B > land 5D > 5B > 5C > jc.B > j.214B > 9DD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (3636 damage, 43% MG)

With this combo I can't get it on certain characters:

Noel/Tsubaki: can't get the first j.a at all

Litchi/Hazama/Carl: second hit of dj.AAA wiffs

Rachel: j.236B wiffs

What am I doing wrong?

Yeah, doesn't work vs noel/tsubaki. Do ...>j.A > (delay) dj.AAA. Wolf j.a has a ridiculous amount of hitstun, so you can let Valk fall a little bit after the wolf dash so that the double jump won't put you too high. Pretty sure it works vs everyone other than Noel and Tsubaki when I tested.

[NeonCrusader]

Okay, messed around with some re-launch stuff and managed 9.6k for 100 meter, non-CH. Did not test on people that 5B 2C 632146D hits on, but providing that all of 632146D hits this'd probably push into 9.7k. Can start this off just under 50 meter...

[h]2C, 236B, 2C, 6B, 2C, 6C, 2C, j.214B, 2D, 236A, land, 236B, j.236B, j.236A, j.5/7CB, j.B, land 5D, 5B, 2C, j.DB, j.3C, j.A, land 5D, 5B, 632146D.

Unfortunately, you can't safely follow it up with j.236236C... the first hit lands (hitting for a total of 9770 even), but the opponent can tech it immediately.