What is the best FC in the game?

[rei-Scarred]

This, and you can do double jayoku from midscreen as long as you started with 70ish meter (Jyakou meter gain is absurd)

Really, even factoring in meter req, Jayoku is the best in the game. as soon as Haz gets 50 meter you pretty much can not under any circumstance attack him, which lets him zone you for free, and if you try to get gutsy you eat shit and die anyway then he gets all his meter back to do it again.

If the Hazamas you fight seriously mash out jayoku that hard everytime they have meter, just run up and block o-o. Since when have reversals been guaranteed, even in America...

And as far as IB Jayoku goes, just punch and block.

[Zidane]

I don't think Hotenjin FC is the best FC in the game. Probably not even 2nd or 3rd best. The only combos you can do with FC are 4 Ds, TK 2149B, or some silly shit which probably only works on Tager. Double Hotenjin / relaunch combos are all possible off just raw hotenjin and aren't easier if Hotenjin is FC. I think just getting hit by raw hotenjin is scary enough; people just hear Fatal and start panicking.

Arakune getting full curse off FC, Ragna doing 7-8K combos off fatal, Hakumen's FC Hotaru combos, hell, even Jin FC combos. All those chars get ridiculous shit they normally wouldn't/can't without FC. Hazama either gets regular damage or 500-700ish more.

PS: Stay free Spirit Jake.

[DoomieJ]

Makoto's super FC is pretty nice IMO. I would take Ragna's 2C as my favorite, just because 5C blocked 2C whiff is dangerous as fuck for getting that to hit. Super sneaky tricks for all the other FCs too.

Shoutouts to Carl j.b. That FC is gdlk.

[dragontamer]

Well, as much as I appreciate opinions...I could use some advice:

How do you "land" said FCs? DPs like Hotaru and Jayoku are no-brainers, but stuff like Ragna or Jin's 2C? What? When? Haku-men's 6C is also....complicated to use.

Noel's j.4D is also a no brainer, as are Makoto's Ds...dunno about Valk though.

Wait, are you serious? Noel's j.4D? AKA: even if the opponent whiffs on my invincibility frames they recover in time to grab / jab me before the move hits? Its only useful for punishing Tagers who like to use 2C as an anti-air instead of 2A, even then, Tagers often recover in time if I don't j.4D low enough while falling. I guess the concept is simple: time your invincibility frames against your opponent's attack, and then counter-hit them.Unfortunately, j.4D isn't nearly fast enough to do this in practice, with 15+ frames without any invincibility before you hit the opponent... as well as the obvious startup animation, its the easiest move to poke out of on its startup.

Even then, regular 4D does more damage on Fatal counter than j.4D. And it actually works defensively if you IB -> 4D because 4D is frame1 invincible. (well, not really invincible, its more like frame 1 low-profile, kinda like Noel's old 3C). So of Noel's moves, 4D is the better Fatal Counter... but its no "spam for free damage" move either.

----------------

Jayoku is easily the best. IB -> Jayoku. Just the threat of it alone means you can't be stupid in your blockstrings (normally, Hazama doesn't have a 1-frame reversal). Having the strongest reversal in the game (even with heat) means the Hazama game gets very different at 50% heat.

Ragna 2C is great because its safe on block, and Taokaka 2C is good for similar reasons.

[bbq sauce]

TBH, everyone's reasoning for jayoku being the best FC, is more like what the reasoning should be for calling it the best reversal..

[unsanctifier]

The best FC is a good astral.

[dragontamer]

TBH, everyone's reasoning for jayoku being the best FC, is more like what the reasoning should be for calling it the best reversal..

Aside from Hotaru, there aren't any FCs that are reversals. (Hotaru is pseudo-reversal, because Hakumen still needs 4 frames to jump...)

[mundus]

Hotaru its better than Jyakou, but these two is in a league on their own.

[farranpoison]

Whoever says that Makoto 2C is a great FC is forgetting the part where a good FC has to be EASY TO LAND. Honestly, if you land a 2C, the opponent must have attention issues.

Houtenjin is easily the best FC. People who say otherwise have not witnessed the horror of being IB JH'd out of a blockstring into 5-7k damage. Hotaru is not better than JH because of the sole reason that it's not invincible on frame one (jump frames lol).

Runner ups I would suggest would be Ragna 2C and Carl j.B, because of their safety and ease of use.

[Blade]

How the hell do you use Arakune's j.C and 2C FCs???

Bang's 3C isn't too bad either. Also, his Super Gigant Attack somewhat nice in some situations (I can use it more if I TK the input 214736+B), not as easy an input as TK Hotaru, but still useful for surprises.

[JinSaotome]

If the Hazamas you fight seriously mash out jayoku that hard everytime they have meter, just run up and block o-o. Since when have reversals been guaranteed, even in America...

And as far as IB Jayoku goes, just punch and block.

I'm the local Haz player :P (at least til Valk comes out :3)

no one is ever going to Jayoku you as soon as you run up, you should be doing it specifically off of certain IBs and (the opponent's) shitty mixup attempts.

And when they "just punch and block," they are giving you a free attempt to jump and zip out or even start your own offense since Haz has great normals anyway.

The thing about Jayoku that's so great is as soon as you get 50%, pretty much every character in the game has to respect you when trying to rush you down or mix you up.Add on to the fact that you can combo with it which leads to some pretty good damage (not as godly as FC though), and the fact that performing the combo gets you all that meter back anyway, I'd say its definitely in the top 3~4

After hearing what people are saying about Hotaru though, I'd concede it's probably better than Jayoku. Possibly Ragna 2C as well (I don't know shit about Carl, so idk about j.B :X)

[Heroic_Legacy]

"214736+B" :psyduck::psyduck:

[ZONG_one]

Hotaru its better than Jyakou, but these two is in a league on their own.

Hotaru is in no way better that Jayoku, except that it takes less meter.

Sorry.

[seyu]

what about noels 4D? i know its nowhere as good as those mentioned before, but its not bad either...or is it?

[farranpoison]

what about noels 4D? i know its nowhere as good as those mentioned before, but its not bad either...or is it?

Wait, are you serious? Noel's j.4D? AKA: even if the opponent whiffs on my invincibility frames they recover in time to grab / jab me before the move hits? Its only useful for punishing Tagers who like to use 2C as an anti-air instead of 2A, even then, Tagers often recover in time if I don't j.4D low enough while falling. I guess the concept is simple: time your invincibility frames against your opponent's attack, and then counter-hit them.Unfortunately, j.4D isn't nearly fast enough to do this in practice, with 15+ frames without any invincibility before you hit the opponent... as well as the obvious startup animation, its the easiest move to poke out of on its startup.

Even then, regular 4D does more damage on Fatal counter than j.4D. And it actually works defensively if you IB -> 4D because 4D is frame1 invincible. (well, not really invincible, its more like frame 1 low-profile, kinda like Noel's old 3C). So of Noel's moves, 4D is the better Fatal Counter... but its no "spam for free damage" move either.

There you go.

[seyu]

i guess i missed that post...

[Yggjrasil]

Honestly, what can Bang do from his 3C Fatal and his 623B Fatal? I haven't seen many Bang players do much from these...

[ZONG_one]

Honestly, what can Bang do from his 3C Fatal and his 623B Fatal? I haven't seen many Bang players do much from these...

623B gets longer combo.

3C gets nothing.

623B is impossible to plan for.

they both suck ass as FC's.

I think the better thread would be.

"Which is the worst FC in the game?"

In that case, I'd say Carl's 2C.

[FlyingVe]

Jin's Yukkikaze is pretty awful as a FC.

[Mizzet]

You could make Noel's j.4d instant kill on FC and it would still hurt you more than benefit you in the long run for even thinking of using that lousy move.

[bbq sauce]

Aside from Hotaru, there aren't any FCs that are reversals. (Hotaru is pseudo-reversal, because Hakumen still needs 4 frames to jump...)

Hotenjin is 6f and invul in startup, totally not a reversal, you're right sorry.

And talking about IB into Hotenjin is what makes it so strong, isn't a reversal situation, you're right again.

ANYWAY

When I think of a question like, what is the best FC, I think of like, something safely hitconfirmable, that benefits hugely from landing as FC opposed to regular hit.

Like Zidane said, most of what you can do with hotenjin FC, can be done with naked hotenjin that hits normally. Using to interrupt strings via IB>super, and scare them into cutting their strings short out of fear for it, is what make it a good reversal, not what makes it a good FC.

Something like Ragna's 2C that changes a 4K combo to 5k meterless combo, allows for anywhere from like ~6-9k depending on his meter, makes for GOOD FC, because there's a huge difference in hit and counter hit, AND it's positive on block so you get to keep pressure if it doesn't hit.

[farranpoison]

I'd say Jin's 2C is a good contender for a terrible FC. It's so ungodly slow, and I can't see anyone hitting with it except by accident.

Oh, and the aforementioned Bang 623B and 3C. You can't really get anything off of those.

[Seifuuku]

calamity sword is also invuln from frame 1 and has like 14f start up total and it FCs.. both versions of yukikaze as well

worst fc.. i guess it'd be rachel level 3 j2c outside of combos. no way anyone is getting hit by that

[Yggjrasil]

623B is impossible to plan for.

they both suck ass as FC's.

Yeah, I saw a match between Kaqn vs Dora, and Dora started out with 623B and got FC but didn't do anything after it, I'm sure he was like "WTF, I actually hit someone with that?"

[Dances w Ninjas]

Honestly, what can Bang do from his 3C Fatal and his 623B Fatal? I haven't seen many Bang players do much from these...

Something in the neighborhood of 3.8-4K and maybe one or two seals.