What is the best FC in the game?

[St1ckBuG]

This thread is so fucking serious, that I pressed 'Go Advanced' to reply.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUH3JQjcweM

Hazama

-214DB (2): More damage than (1) DP... can net anywhere from 3-4k more damage than level 1, but has slower start-up if you consider 'charging' stance.

-Houtenjin: A couple hundred more damage on FC... Dustloop is fking gdlk.

Lambda

-j214D: Might net you a little more damage in the corner...

-632146D: Can only combo if you RC but leads to good damage. Bad move to begin with.

Tager

-2C: Can be used as AA/reversal in some situations and nets 4k+ (more if magnetized) and gadget 'oki'.

Litchi

-2C: Her 2C/6A BnB's are already better than anything she could get differently off of FC.

Taokaka

-2C: 7k+ damage but must be charged... 'punish' category.

Noel

-4D: Good damage 4k+ (more if you use meter?). Kind of slow, ok invul, and not used very much other than getting out of drive. Hard to hit-confirm?

-j4D: Good damage 4k+ (more if you use meter?) but this move is pretty damn bad to begin with soooooo...

Ragna

-2C: Stupid good damage with meter 7-9k with good start-up/recovery, but can only really be used as a 'punish' if you're fishing for a FC.

Jin

-2C: Not really meant to be used other than outside his pressure (even then it's still meh) but will net him good damage 4k+ and more with meter. Slow start-up (17f) so only used to 'punish' things.

-Yukikaze: Have to RC to follow up... can't even compare with some of the things I have listed here so I won't even bother.

Rachel

-j2C + stuff = Rachel is bad anyway so it doesn't matter.

Carl

jB: A good air-to-air that can lead to 5k+ meterless. Used a lot in his gameplay since he's usually fishing for FC anyway.

2C: 14f startup with no invul and only special cancel-able? Is this move even used outside his combos?

Arakune

-2C/5C/jC: Meterless 100% curse. With some FC's, if you're close to getting 100% curse, can lead into stupid good damage.

Bang

-3C: Good damage (3.8k+) with even more with meter. Slow start-up, no invul, and is only RC'ablel so it can be added to the 'punish' category.

-623B: Does he do anything different that's worth mentioning? I'm honestly in the dark on this one.

Hakumen

-Hotaru: Really good invul, 11f start-up, only 2 Magatamas (sp?), JC'able, and air unblockable into good (4-7k) damage? This move is fking gdlk.

-Yukikaze: Can you even combo after this? 3.8k and a counter super... no thanks.

-Fully Charged 6C: ...nope.

Tsubaki

-6C: Slow start-up and needs charge do any 'real' damage.

Makoto

-2C: Slow but stupid good meterless damage. Ehhhhhh... I want to add this to 'punish'.

-All her level 3 stuff: Honestly not sure... her damage options are good already. I don't think any of this stuff will compare with Hotaru, Carl's jB or Arakune's 5C anyway in terms of usage/utility.

Mu

-6C really good damage (7k+) but you have to space the move correctly and not wiff it. Only good in some matchups... I would add this to 'punish'.

Valk

-No clue.

==================================================

So what characteristics make a good FC move? IMO it's a move that you use often in your gameplay and regardless whether is hits FC or not you're still get something out of it (at least a few thousand damage). When is DOES manage to FC, that's great, more damage/meter for you!!! Another good characteristic would be a move that you know that when you use it will always be FC (think 'punishable'), making it easy to hit-confirm into. No meter to make it viable is always a plus as well.

With this mind-set it's easy to narrow it down to a few (in no specific order):

-Hazama 214DB and Houtenjin

-Hakumen Hotaru

-Ragna 2C

-Tager 2C

-Carl jB

-Arakune 2C/5C

Let's narrow it down further...

Ragna's 2C, even though used a lot, will only ever FC on 'punish'. No one ever just runs up and does 2C regularly as he has better options as pokes and spacing tools (5B and 5C).

Let's get one thing straight: Houtenjin is a good move but it's not a good FC move. You only net a couple hundred more damage on FC (compared to non-FC) and it's punishable on block (unless you RC). Anyone who thinks this is the best is a fucking idiot.

Tager 2C: let's face it, it's pretty slow (15f) and punishable on block/wiff. Don't get me wrong, this is a good move, but other moves out-shine it in terms of utility.

Arakune 2C: Good on FC, but not great any other time (unless you RC).

Now we're left with: Hazama 214DB (2), Hotaru, Carl jB and Arakune 5C. Let's break it down even further...

Hazama's 214DB is probably one of the most underrated moves in the game. The fact that you need to charge it to level 2 doesn't change this fact much since Hazama's pressure can always push him to a distance where charging his stance is safe. You have to respect Hazama in most of YOUR offensive situations because of this move or you'll get hit and be sad. Regardless of being level 1 or 2 it nets Hazama good damage and meter. It's air unblockable as well as being hard as shit to punish on block (some characters can get around this). I feel like I need to put this on the low end of 'good FC moves'. I'll stick it at #4.

Hotaru... this move is so stupid good it's not even funny. No matter how it hits you're safe, the invul/startup for this type of move is ridiculous, AND it's air-unblockable. This is definitely THE BEST FC MOVE in the game. #1 hands down.

Arakune's 5C is a really good AA and can be JC'd on block to make it safe or followed up into a good curse building combo (although not 0-100% if not FC). The fact that you can use it the way it was intended but get rewarded for having it FC makes this a good FC move. I would put this below Hotaru at #2.

Carl's jB is a really good air-to-air that leads to good meterless damage on FC. If it doesn't FC it doesn't matter, but it helps when you're doll is there to help you keep a combo going. Because of it's situational (and sometimes ass) damage on non-FC, I would put this move right below Arakune's 5C at #3 and maybe tied with Hazama's 214DB (2).

=====================================================

TLDR

#1 - Hotaru [Hakumen]

#2 - 5C [Arakune]

#3 - jB [Carl] >> 214DB (2) [Hazama]

You should close this thread, as it's a really stupid topic to begin with. Knowing that threads like this exists on Dustloop makes my head hurt. I'm even surprised at myself that I typed all that up. I'm really surprised that the mods tell us to close threads that get too long, but they let threads like this even run longer than 2 pages.

Good shit Spirit Jake (and the rest of the idiots) on thinking that Houtenjin was the best FC move. Stay free.

BTW, sorry if I forgot any FC moves... some are used so infrequently that I forget they even exist.

The more you know

Disclaimer: All the information in this post might be wrong to some people. Stay gdlk dustloop.

[Blade]

It's funny how the moderators are the ones getting off-topic in this thread. But I digress, nobody told me how Arakune's FCs aside from 5C work?

[ZONG_one]

It's funny how the moderators are the ones getting off-topic in this thread. But I digress, nobody told me how Arakune's FCs aside from 5C work?

And it's funny that you are the infamous Blade period.

How they work? You hit someone CH and it's FCH, and you get curse. They work the same as 5C.

St1ckBuG just showed some godlike-ness, except for calling me a fucking idiot, but he's free so it's ok.

Stay gdlk BuG.

[Mr.Biscuits]

Why is Team St1ckBuG so GDLK?

I like how Zidane pointed out that FC Houtenjin wasn't even that good yet niggas wanted to ignore him. I guess he made too much sense.

It's a trend I've noticed on here. The more sense you make in a post the less credibility it holds in the thread, LMAO Stay GDLK dustloop.

[-Ladon-]

snip

You completely ignored the fact that the most common fatal hit is happening under IB-punish situations, which houtenjin is miles ahead of any other fatal in?

I mean, don't get me wrong, your points are solid, and probably right, but why does houtenjin get completely ignored in the fact that out of all of the ones listed it's one of the only ones with invlun, making it a viable escape tool?

[qwerty]

ec getting angry over bb, lmao

which is double hilarious because everyone on ec sucks at bb. i don't even play this game and i'd body most of you clowns.

[Spirit Juice]

>sees how many fatal jayokus there are

>sees how many fatal whatevers there are in comparison

>terrible ec talking shit but being terrible like usual

>my face

[Alzarath]

eh, houtenjin wins if we're talking about general usability. In terms of increased dmg gain it's sorta irrelevant, as said already.

[-Ladon-]

oh yeah I forgot to mention, who exactly is running into charged hazama DP?

I can understand a quick 214DB catching someone's IAD but who the hell runs into it Charged

[Seifuuku]

doesn't fatal jayoku add 1k damage midscreen with j9d 623d j6d relaunch

[severin]

Why is Team St1ckBuG so GDLK?

I like how Zidane pointed out that FC Houtenjin wasn't even that good yet niggas wanted to ignore him. I guess he made too much sense.

It's a trend I've noticed on here. The more sense you make in a post the less credibility it holds in the thread, LMAO Stay GDLK dustloop.

How can he be credible. He doesn't have a big flashy avatar.

Who's Zidane?

[Zidane]

>sees how many fatal jayokus there are

>sees how many fatal whatevers there are in comparison

>terrible ec talking shit but being terrible like usual

>my face

>types like a faggot--i'm sorry, homosexual, playing dnd with his little sister

>HAzama player sees how much extra damage he gets off FC Hotenjin compared to raw Hotenjin

>Enlightens DL that Hotenjin hitting is godlike enough and FC doesn't matter

>Spirit Jake throws a hissy fit

>Brings in WC butt buddies

>Complains about EC being free; I body DacidBro, "bext WC player" when he comes to NY

>Spirit Jake damage controls saying he's not that good even though he wins all your free tournies in Cali

I guess you can summarize it with

>Spirit Jake thinks he's knowledgeable cause he can close threads

I have a good idea though. We'll play FT5. No top tier can be used according to dustloop logic.

I'll pick Hazama. I'll show you all the cool things he can do off regular hotenjin.

Oh, >in before UMAD when really it's UENTERTAINED

[ZONG_one]

I'll FT5 you Zidane.

I'm not SJ, so you might not care, lol.

[Spirit Juice]

>types like a faggot--i'm sorry, homosexual, playing dnd with his little sister

>HAzama player sees how much extra damage he gets off FC Hotenjin compared to raw Hotenjin

>Enlightens DL that Hotenjin hitting is godlike enough and FC doesn't matter

>Spirit Jake throws a hissy fit

>Brings in WC butt buddies

>Complains about EC being free; I body DacidBro, "bext WC player" when he comes to NY

>Spirit Jake damage controls saying he's not that good even though he wins all your free tournies in Cali

I guess you can summarize it with

>Spirit Jake thinks he's knowledgeable cause he can close threads

I have a good idea though. We'll play FT5. No top tier can be used according to dustloop logic.

I'll pick Hazama. I'll show you all the cool things he can do off regular hotenjin.

Oh, >in before UMAD when really it's UENTERTAINED

My bad I forgot you were the best player in America as tagged by the Japanese.

[Mumm-Ra]

-Yukikaze: Can you even combo after this? 3.8k and a counter super... no thanks.

You can combo Yukikaze into Shippu with 100 heat for 6k or something IIRC.

I mean since you posted the Calamity Sword FC into RC thing I felt like pointing this out.

Or you can do it in Mugen I guess.

[Zidane]

My bad I forgot you were the best player in America as tagged by the Japanese.

I guess I'm forgetful too; I forgot you were a hazama player and knew all about his everything and could logically explain to people why X is X.

But seriously, besides the trolling, which I hope you are, it doesn't matter that hotenjin hits mostly fatal; the combos you see after it are the same from a non-fatal hotenjin. The few actual fatal combos add an extra few hundred points of damage. I hope you can realize this spirit Jake and dumb people of dustloop.

Wait aren't they the same LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL smileyface

edit: zong we can play whenever if you want.

[ZONG_one]

Mmk, cool.

Also, I realize the difference between FCH and normal is very small.

I just still think it's better/more practical than hotaru. FCH means nothing for jayoku, except that it can be counted in a list of good FCH's.

(Or if you have 100 meter, I guess.)

Also x2, lol @ Dacid being WC best player.

[Zidane]

Well I mean... Hitting hotenjin in general is more practical than hotaru. But for a FC move, I'd rather hit hotaru then hotenjin. Like I'm not saying these moves are better than hotenjin, but what you can do off everyone elses FC is SOOOOO much better than hotenjin.

[ZONG_one]

On benefits of hitting everyone else's FC rather than their respective normal hit, I'll agree.

[Eclipse]

Thanks for stating this Zidane. People don't understand that Hazama hitting with a FC really makes almost no difference at all. It just has that "epic effect" and is known as a godly Fatal Counter, simply because it does Fatal Counter. In other words. Being a FC has nothing to do with it being so godly. The main thing that makes it great, in my opinion at least, would be the speed, invulnerable frames, and simply... the fact that it's such a good reversal that you can get massive damage off.

If we're talking about what FCs are used the most, or which move is great in general, yeah, then it's wonderful. But it's amusing since it's power has nothing to do with the fact that it's a FC. (And wouldn't the "best FC" have to be because of what FC does, haha.) I'm done, but I agree with Zidane here.

[bbq sauce]

On benefits of hitting everyone else's FC rather than their respective normal hit, I'll agree.

Is that not what makes a move a good fatal counter(what this thread is about) opposed to a good move in general, with a fatal counter property(not what this thread is)?

[St1ckBuG]

You completely ignored the fact that the most common fatal hit is happening under IB-punish situations, which houtenjin is miles ahead of any other fatal in?

I mean, don't get me wrong, your points are solid, and probably right, but why does houtenjin get completely ignored in the fact that out of all of the ones listed it's one of the only ones with invlun, making it a viable escape tool?

As stated before, FC Houtenjin doesn't change anything except add couple hundred damage. It's not completely ignored, but the way I interpret a 'best FC move' is one that adds more of a reward for getting a (sometimes random) FC. All it does is add a little extra damage (and meter). Take an already good move and add a much bigger payout for getting a random CH and THAT'S when you have a good FC move... a couple hundred damage for FC isn't very impressive compared to most other moves with FC properties.

Just because it's a common FC doesn't mean it's a 'good' one. Houtenjin IS a good move, but it being FC has nothing to do with it being good.

ec getting angry over bb, lmao

which is double hilarious because everyone on ec sucks at bb. i don't even play this game and i'd body most of you clowns.

I don't want to talk shit about WC in this thread but I coulda sworn I saw you get bodied at NCI because you were too busy trying to block by mashing buttons. But hey, what do I know, I'm pretty ass at this game.

Glad you care about EC though. I feel loved.

oh yeah I forgot to mention, who exactly is running into charged hazama DP?

I can understand a quick 214DB catching someone's IAD but who the hell runs into it Charged

Have you ever air-dashed at someone thinking it was your turn? Never? Oh, ok.

eh, houtenjin wins if we're talking about general usability. In terms of increased dmg gain it's sorta irrelevant, as said already.

As. Said. Already.

You can combo Yukikaze into Shippu with 100 heat for 6k or something IIRC.

I mean since you posted the Calamity Sword FC into RC thing I felt like pointing this out.

Or you can do it in Mugen I guess.

Yeah, I couldn't find any combos on it so I didn't dwell on it much (I've never seen any) and I rarely ever see it used... and when it is used it usually doesn't work. Thanks for pointing that out though.

The only reason I know of the Calamity Sword RC is because I play Lambda...

[smooshman]

hirensou should totally be an FC, the level of bullshit would be fucking hilarious. it would be better than jayoku. yeah I said it, 100 p1 ~1500 damage reversal with hilarious combo oppurtunities

seriously jayoku is a great FC by virtue of being a great move. By pure FC (on likelyhood of landing) yukikaze is the best, 100% of the time it's gonna be an FC, and 95% of the time for Jin. if it's by pure damage difference then it's Ragna's 2C. easily. compare 2.5-3K on normal hit and 8K+ on FC. if we go by a balance.... then it's hotaru.

[Spirit Juice]

I guess I'm forgetful too; I forgot you were a hazama player and knew all about his everything and could logically explain to people why X is X.

But seriously, besides the trolling, which I hope you are, it doesn't matter that hotenjin hits mostly fatal; the combos you see after it are the same from a non-fatal hotenjin. The few actual fatal combos add an extra few hundred points of damage. I hope you can realize this spirit Jake and dumb people of dustloop.

Wait aren't they the same LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL smileyface

edit: zong we can play whenever if you want.

Yes the previous two posts were pretty much troll posts. First was pretty much "I have to go in a few minutes so I'll just give this lol reply." Second was pure trolling and an old meme I thought that needed repeating.

Also x2, lol @ Dacid being WC best player.

Best at mashing 5A.

Well I mean... Hitting hotenjin in general is more practical than hotaru. But for a FC move, I'd rather hit hotaru then hotenjin. Like I'm not saying these moves are better than hotenjin, but what you can do off everyone elses FC is SOOOOO much better than hotenjin.

In all seriousness, I guess it really comes down to as to what you consider what makes a FC a good one. As a player, I put practicality on a pretty high list of priorities when it comes to ranking combos, damage, pokes, etc., and since Jayoku is a great reversal and leads to FCs in most situations, I put it above Hotaru (even though the damage difference between normal hit and FC is not blow-off-your-pants good anyways). While Hotaru is great, FC Hotaru isn't seen very often unless the person makes a mistake due to poor judgement. I would still put Jayoku over Hotaru, with Hotaru as a close second.

[mundus]

Litchi 2C = best move in the game.

What about Bang's 5A?