metalmass Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 I was curious, since I use Mu a lot, how many of the combos from this really helpful video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyyoX47NQk4 will still be relevant in CS2? I hope they are mostly preserved because after learning them I made all my friends eat their words after saying Mu-12 sucked! None of the vortex setups that rely on opponents teching on knockdown are viable. Also, on setups that require early knockdown have been eliminated since the opponent can tech without any delay whatsoever so her 2B is useless in those situations. Her bnb corner combo is also shortened dramatically. There are some valuable tools from that video, i.e. fundamentals, but forget all the fancy mixups. Those are gone.
C0R Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) None of the vortex setups that rely on opponents teching on knockdown are viable. Also, on setups that require early knockdown have been eliminated since the opponent can tech without any delay whatsoever so her 2B is useless in those situations. Her bnb corner combo is also shortened dramatically. There are some valuable tools from that video, i.e. fundamentals, but forget all the fancy mixups. Those are gone. No. This statement is incorrect for several reasons. Crossunder and crossover setups are still very powerful and very prevalent. Not sure what you mean by "the opponent can tech without any delay", but 6c retains all it's old mechanical properties, making setups even tighter with the new steins. 3c is a jump cancel-able ender allowing for multiple, reliable, safe and or meaty air options. j.2c has MORE untechable time and less recovery, allowing for even more practical and higher-reward setups. If you're talking about 3c midscreen, you can still jump cancel for air options, or stein cancel > jump cancel for even more options. Her corner bnb results in much higher average damage, higher meter gain, with stronger oki and more steins to boot. In short, her oki is stronger, safer, more reliable, and allows her more versatility. There are more setups now, and fancier mixups. That video is dated, however with very minimal adjustment the concepts it incorporates is very informative. Edited May 12, 2011 by C0R
BloodyRootBeers Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 is the gatling from 2C to 5C work after a 5C? and also, with the changed laser speed, does the 5[D], 4[D], 63214C, 63214C (charged) still work (assuming they respect you enough to block on wakeup)? The primer system change seems to be very conducive for a guard breaking focused setups, as bursts leave most characters at 2 primers.
C0R Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 [5c > 2c] and [2c > 5c] both work, but only once, so you cant go [2c > 5c > 2c] or [5c > 2c > 5c] The timing on the charged lasers is quite a bit different, so a more optimal and gapless setup would probably look like 5[D] 6[D] (63214C x3), assuming you time the SoD's to hit between the lasers.
SolarMisae Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 In short, her oki is stronger, safer, more reliable, and allows her more versatility. There are more setups now, and fancier mixups. This statement made me very happy indeed, and even more impatient for the CS2 patch to be out on US PS3s. So the vortex setup is still totally viable?
C0R Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 6c > xxx is free-form like a boss. I happen to know quite a few vortex setups, you guys will see some in my fancy stuff video when I'm done with it.
metalmass Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 6c > xxx is free-form like a boss. I happen to know quite a few vortex setups, you guys will see some in my fancy stuff video when I'm done with it. I was referencing the video specifically. If you try a lot of that stuff it won't work just because of all the changes.
pulsr Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Well, I dunno what I think... Yesterday in IRC i was raging that she was ass, but now i feel she's like .. okay, a bit counter productive but she's still okay. I don't really know what to say. It is pretty damn near impossible to force your opponent to the corner with her, so I dunno what i think of that.
pochp Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 I felt like Mu was just better and less stiff. Less strict timings, lasers aim way better. I can't say I fought excellent opponents at our local meetup last night , but my game plan to get them in the corner was pretty effective. Either back up "spamming" a mix of charged and uncharged steins, and then dashing over/under the opponent when I have my back in the corner after sending out a command laser or something. Or land a hit, "combo" into SoD and dash up with a meaty, it carries the opponent a lot, and jump cancelable 3C makes pressure more interesting. (well in addition to safe 6B, lol) Air unblockable 5C and the new charged steins make it impossible for me to return to CS1, ever, I think... And I didn't even try out the new HABAYAAA yet, I completely forgot about that move. Her DP felt more easily punishable though, not that it made me sad or anything.
pulsr Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 Havin your back to the wall sounds like a death sentence.
pochp Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Yeah I'll wait to try this against better opponents until I call that "strategy" viable. Woah just realized C0R is our second Mu mod now, grats! (and nice avi)
ThunderboltZ28 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Playing locally for the first time. No idea what to do with CSII Mu. Must study thread all night. Congrats on making mod, Cor. Awesome avatar.
C0R Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Thanks guys. I have to say that out of all the changes to her normals, the most competitive change is the safe 6b. With the additional ability to get good damage off it with wallbound SoD, it is now a fast, unpunishable overhead with high reward.
ThunderboltZ28 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) 6B is unpunishable? So it should be thrown in a lot espcially near the corner? Off of a corner bound SoD what can I do as far as corner combo? I've seen that its a lot different from CS1's corner combos. Edited May 14, 2011 by ThunderboltZ28
pochp Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 6B is unpunishable but it's still slow and if you dash in 6B you could just get 2A'd out of it, so you'll usually want to be covered by a laser/explosion or gatling into it. Until someone finds something more optimal, this is good enough IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNkCWoqEsg#t=30s
ThunderboltZ28 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 What little I've played of CSII I noticed I was getting 2A'd/grabbed out of 6B a lot. Probably shouldn't throw it around as much. That and 3C. I need to get it in my head that I can't 2B after it. Is the vortex still worth doing? I know I can do it, but what can CSII Mu after it?
FlyingVe Posted May 14, 2011 Author Posted May 14, 2011 That's people mashing, it could just be because everybody is a bit mashy now (new game), or the people you playing are that way. Good thing is, if you identify that they're mashing, they become free.
pochp Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 The CS1 vortex is gone, but you could probably use tick throws mixed with throw reject miss and still make it sort of useful, but very gimmicky. A good way to punish mashing is to use stuff like 2A 2C in a block string, I'm not 100% sure it still works since they made her C moves faster, but it should. What it does is create a small gap so the masher starts an attack but gets CH by the 2C. Another good way to punish is to use a meaty attack on their wakeup. An easy example would be that after you finish a combo with SoD, dash up and do a 2A so that it hits them once they've recovered. If they were mashing anything but a DP, they get CH and you can rinse and repeat until they stop mashing If they stop mashing, and block the 2A, you can then gatling into 5B which leads to mixup from gatlings. Oh course this tactic loses to wakeup DP/Super. Keep doing this until they stop mashing and then you'll be able to go back to doing random stuff and not getting mashed out 100% of the time. Oh and about 3C, I got that too, if ever you use it in a combo, just cancel into SoD. Sad we can't to (stuff) 3C 5D SoD anymore though.
ThunderboltZ28 Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 I see. I really liked the vortex. I thought it was cool everything I was able to do it. Which wasn't very often so it made it cooler.
pochp Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Well you can still cross-under with dash 2B/2D after a knockdown from a combo ending with 6C or an air grab, which you could use like a reset. However, the combo you get from that reset won't lead to the initial situation, unless you use meter or are in the corner, which is why you can't really consider it a vortex anymore, just a reset.
C0R Posted May 14, 2011 Posted May 14, 2011 Moving into, out of, then back into cross-under/over setups is still very possible, but throw dependent. 2a/b Cross-under on neutral tech into meaty throw will allow you to set up another forced neutral tech mid-screen or near the corner. <- this especially is very powerful, when used sparingly in coordination with the amount of options you have on their wakeup. 2d Cross-under has new properties! Mu now corrects her direction mid-animation, allowing you to perform a bit more advanced air pressure.
SolarMisae Posted May 15, 2011 Posted May 15, 2011 2d Cross-under has new properties! Mu now corrects her direction mid-animation, allowing you to perform a bit more advanced air pressure. Oh this is just beautiful, I can't wait for the patch to show for US PSN. (Btw congrats on making mod Cor, although you've probably already heard it from everyone else. xD)
SolarMisae Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 Oh dear goodness. Just got the patch and I can actually see what everyone was saying now. The faster steins are so much hype. I didn't even practice her new combos yet but you can SERIOUSLY feel their speed now...I'm so excited. >3< She just feels so much faster overall, it's so great. =D
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