[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[Raziul]

After a bit of experimentation, there are a couple of ways to punish her. The person I was playing will often do 623C > 236D > 214D to make the DP a bit more safe. If they're doing this, you can really hurt them for wasting 2 charges and using something relatively unsafe.

First answer if you can predict the DP is Hotaru.

If you block the DP and they're going to follow it up, you can either hop back and time a 2C, or if you're quick after the block, upback and j.C for ~1300-1600 depending on whether the void or j.C hits her first. You can also time a j.2C, but if you time it wrong, you'll be giving her a free counter hit.

If you get the 2C, you can do 2C > j.2C > 5C > whatever pretty easily. Simple zantetsu combo was doing 4926. Was only really getting an enma connect off the upback j.2C CH.

Edit: Don't need to hop back for 2C as long as you're not too close to her when she fires off the DP.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Raziul

[Moblin]

I just haven't been playing many Tsubakis lately but I'm sure that info will come in handy when one finally crops up here in the scene.

For now, I've gotten to the point where the biggest thing I need to work on mechanically is using the enma follow up off of counters instead of just letting the grab go out. I've lost matches that were otherwise won if I had the presence of mind to use it. What I've discovered so far is that you're going to have to decide which follow up to the counter you're going to use as you use it. A quick one-two punch of D and then immediately A ---> Hold has been getting me the enma every time. The question is which moves shouldn't it be used on?

I think it can be used on anything that isn't multi-hit. If it's a multi-hit move you will just get CH out of it.

Does anyone have frame data on which hitbox comes out faster - the grab from a normal counter or the Enma option?

[mAc Chaos]

The grab for all counters is 6 frames. The Enma followup takes 7.

But that is not what matters most. What matters is that the D grab is invincible all the way through, and Enma isn't at all.

[Moblin]

Which is why multi-hit moves will beat it. But as far as single-hit moves go, would it be safe to say that if you can counter it and hit them, you can enma-counter it as well? Also from watching japanese matches, most notably the ones that Jourdal just uploaded with the Gdlike Hakumen, 2c has replaced Hotaru in terms of an anti-jump out move. I had no idea it even reached that high.

[mAc Chaos]

> would it be safe to say that if you can counter it and hit them, you can enma-counter it as well?

Not necessarily. Gatlings would hit you out of the Enma followup, if they're fast enough, while the counter grab wouldn't care and hit them anyway.

[mAc Chaos]

Merry Christmas, Hakubros.

[Wander]

That's a nice picture, it reminded me of a pic of Santa Tsubaki dressing Hakumen as a reindeer

[IndigoNovember]

Merry Christmas guys!

That's a cute picture Mac.

[mAc Chaos]

It's from BuruRaji. The most amazing Santa.

[Soviet Bear]

That picture is amazing. Happy Holidays, Hakubros.

[Yazumatto]

Hakumen has no coal to give the naughty; instead, he gives them the void.

I'm mad I never saw this pic before.

[Soviet Bear]

Hakumen has no coal to give the naughty; instead, he gives them the void.

Fuumajins are his cookies. Magatama is his milk.

[Kriegdrache]

I am the white christmas. I am the cold snow. I am the just sleigh.

With sack in hand, shall I reap the sins of naughtyness, and cast them in the coalfires of generosity.

I am santamen! The festivities have come!

Edited December 25, 2013 by Kriegdrache

[Moblin]

Merry Christmas Hakumens!

What do you guys think about using Tsubaki out of an IAD as a crossup like we do agito? It seems very good and nets 2.8k for 3 stars and is just as hard to block as cross-up agito from what I can tell. When you just need a little more to end the round and have them guarding. My defense for the legitimacy of this is when you IAD to leave the ground they will block high which will make their character stand up, therefore being in range of the tsubaki. The only hard thing is the timing to make the tsubaki a cross-up.

Also on an unrelated note, for when you try airdash mixup I've found something that seems really good. Airdash in at head-level (easy to do after doing 5a, j.B --> agito combo ender, airdash before you hit the ground as they are teching) and immediately do J.B. You can use j.a right after the j.B but before you hit the ground for a double overhead that is very hard to see coming. This combos into 2b for a Bnb(about 2.5k and corner carry) and does about 4-5k if you OD cancel the enma. Use this until they are conditioned to blocking the double overhead and then do AD, J.b, buffer renka and it will come out as soon as you hit the ground, giving them a low when they expect the j.a overhead. Seems like a lot of work to do for just a small combo, but it's useful when your opponent is blocking all your other mixup.

In addition, I saw something very cool in the latest Haku videos uploaded by jourdal. When your opponent is blocking, jump over them, airdash into them backwards and J.B ---> Agito ---> J.B. It's kind of a double crossup and looks hilarious to boot.

Today I learned Hakumen is Santa except everybody deserves coal and the coal is actually justice.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Moblin

[BlackYakuzu94]

Merry Christmas, Hakubros.

Hakumen: What is it you desire for Christmas young one.

Tsubaki: My eye sight Hakumen-sama.

[toanenadiz]

What do you guys think about using Tsubaki out of an IAD as a crossup like we do agito? It seems very good and nets 2.8k for 3 stars and is just as hard to block as cross-up agito from what I can tell. When you just need a little more to end the round and have them guarding. My defense for the legitimacy of this is when you IAD to leave the ground they will block high which will make their character stand up, therefore being in range of the tsubaki. The only hard thing is the timing to make the tsubaki a cross-up.

It was pretty bad in Extend. I don't think I was actually hit by it, despite multiple Hakumen trying it out extensively. It doesn't help that at that range, Tsubaki is unsafe (unless the Hakumen weren't pressing buttons fast enough) and you can actually stuff late air attacks from Hakumen at that range pretty easily (if you are using a character with a good AA 5A). It might be more legit in CP, since Agito will make them afraid of pressing buttons against Hakumen but reacting and blocking the Tsubaki still shouldn't be that tough.

[Moblin]

Yeah that makes sense, I think the hardest part is timing it correctly anyway. Agito does a better job of crossing up and locking them down if they jump or backdash, without the ending lag of Tsubaki, and I'm sure I wasn't the first one to try it in CP. Back to the lab then

The question is, when to 2C? I love that move now after watching the latest of Jourdal's video uploads

Edited December 27, 2013 by Moblin

[Master Of Chaos]

Hakumen does not give a fuck about Kokonoe's Overdrive Invincibility.

Nor does he give a fuck about the laws of gravity.

#Hakuwin4Life

[Wander]

The question is, when to 2C? I love that move now after watching the latest of Jourdal's video uploads

I usually 2C after a knockdown. I tried to space it at max range so it hits people on wake up/jumping. It kind of forces the opponent to block at that range. I had a player just stand still after a corner knowdown while i did 3 2Cs in a row. They were all whiffing him by a pixel.

I'm glad there are 2C fans now. 2C is my favorite move in terms of aesthetics.

[Moblin]

I think it's replaced hotaru in the way you used to use it for anti-jump out. I'm going to try using it when they're in the corner. It's pretty much safe on anything but whiff if spaced correctly, which is weird because it seems very unsafe on block. Is there updated Frame data for CP? The data I am finding on the dustloop wiki says 2c is -17 on block. Not sure if that was changed for CP.

2c meaty --> gurren is a great frame trap that catches a ton of jump or mash outs. Not to mention it seems to have a lot of block stun so if your opponent blocks it mid-jump they sink down to Earth a little, locking them down for a gurren/some other move so you can continue your pressure.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Moblin

[dioxideUniversa]

2C is -17 as the wiki states. the frame data for CP is correct. an opponent who knows what they are doing will punish any 2cs that aren't special cancelled

[mAc Chaos]

How does 2C work against rolls.

[Moblin]

Probably pretty well, especially against forward rolls. But if they just neutral tech through it then you're stuck in a whiffed 2C and they get a free hit because it's so slow. Every time I miss a 5c > 2c link in a combo, my opponent gets a free combo and a little part of me dies.

[mAc Chaos]

Ah yes, I forgot about that.

So it's no good on oki.

[Raziul]

Ah yes, I forgot about that.

So it's no good on oki.

IAD Agito is my answer to back rolls. Generally it lets you stay on top of them and gives you a chance to mix them up as you're coming down. Might not work as well against people who are very good at getting those reactive DP's out since there's a lot of gaps between Agito, j.B, and what you do on the ground. Forward hop into zantetsu has some decent range on it too if you want to surprise them with an overhead.