[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

I will give the loop one thing, it made burst baiting incredibly free. Like damn, I've never felt myself up so much because of it.

[mAc Chaos]

At first I didn't like the loop, but it grew on me over time. It's not that different than his other combos. It ended up having just as much corner carry too. I pretty much always left out the last rep though.

 

The main challenge so far seems to be what to do when you land a non-ideal starter.

 

6B combo damage should be down, I think, since you can't do the usual combo after CH.

 

They just need to give Hotaru back its old height.

 

I wonder if you can do a counter into Zantetsu.

[entnervt]

You can cancel a counter into Zantetsu, there was at least one vid with a Hakumen doing it. Can't remember in which though.

Or do you mean any counterhit into Zantetsu? That's something i'd like to know myself.

[mAc Chaos]

Let me rephrase that.

 

I mean if we can do anything after a successful catch.

[BlackYakuzu94]

We can, but the opponent isn't frozen if you special cancel, so they can block.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mAc Chaos]

That's an activation. A catch is when you actually grab them with the counter.

 

In CP you can do Shippu after it.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Ooohhh, not sure...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The_undercover_beret]

That seems unlikely for standard 2D and 5D. In the latest combo video there was only a 2D/5D combo and it was during overdrive.

[BlackYakuzu94]

That's always been there though

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The_undercover_beret]

The key word is "only". There is no real reason to show an OD 5D combo, unless we can't combo without overdrive, since it is extremely impractical.

Besides, if 5D and 2D were truly special cancelable on a succesful catch in CP2.0, then that something you would expect to be found quickly and showed in combo videos or used in matches, which isn't the case here.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So I just had a thought...if counters are Special Cancellable, doesn't that mean we can go straight into OD off a successful activation?

[The_undercover_beret]

I edited my two previous posts, because I was not really clear. My apologies.

 

I wonder if you can do a counter into Zantetsu.

 

I mentioned earlier why it was very unlikely for 2D and 5D.

As far as J.D is concerned, since it has less recovery, it might be possible to do J.D < 5C < Zantetsu, it's working in 1.1 with a RC after the J.D or in overdrive. I wouldn't count on it though, that would be way to sweet of a buff.

In the case of 6D, if it wasn't changed in 2.0, it won't work. We'll have to spend at the very least spend an additional star and do 6D < Guren < Zantetsu. But honestly, has anybody ever landed a 6D in CP?

 

So I just had a thought...if counters are Special Cancellable, doesn't that mean we can go straight into OD off a successful activation?

According to the wiki: "You can cancel into Overdrive almost anytime you could cancel into a Special Move.", so that would be highly probable.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Oooohhhh, that sounds hype; that means you could catch something, OD and then just turn the whole match around.

[mAc Chaos]

You might as well just gcOD.

 

Actually, canceling out of the counter into OD would be useful in some specific situations that gcOD wouldn't apply in. Like if they weren't doing a blockstring but just throwing out a move you counter at neutral or wakeup.

 

You could just naked OD through that, but I think that takes longer.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Plus ya know, it'd be an ODc rather than a gcOD and the former lasts longer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Schneider-X]

So I just had a thought...if counters are Special Cancellable, doesn't that mean we can go straight into OD off a successful activation?

 

That's actually a pretty neat idea.  Could be used in specific oki situations to get a strong punish.

[mAc Chaos]

I think people are overestimating that. How slow would the move have to be to punish it if you have to go all the way through gcOD time + your own punish startup.

[Schneider-X]

Well those are the type of things we'll need to find out to determine how viable gcOD will be and how useful special cancelled counters will be in general.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Ugh, this means we have to find out Frame Data, I hate number crunching.

[The_undercover_beret]

Another combo video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24749994

 

This time, it's focusing on Mugen combos without overdrive.

 

- 2A CH 6A Mugen combo leads to 6.4k damage.

- Shippu during Mugen deals unprorated 3.8k damage 

 

Edit: Better late than never: Shippu's minimum damage is more subtile than that, check kikirin's post below.

[BlackYakuzu94]

well...they sorta buffed Mugen I guess, so I got my wish sorta.

[Raziul]

Is the recovery time on Mugen gone? It looks like he combos into it pretty easily with Renka.

[BlackYakuzu94]

It must've never had recovery because it's always been like that.

Poropiccho proved it :V

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Raziul]

I guess I just never used it enough to know I could combo into it off of basic starters.

 

I only used it to make my opponent laugh so hard they couldn't block, like activating Mugen > OD and then spamming Zan(1) > Kishuu a few times across the screen until I reached them haha.

[Schneider-X]

Mugen had alot of recovery pre-CP but with CP it was greatly reduced.  It might've been further reduced in CP2 since it combos off of 6A.  I will miss shippu waves a little if their gone but greatly welcome back unscaled shippu damage.