[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

What's up with challenge #15 for hakumen?  it has a bunch of requisites that just say 1k, 2k, 3k, and 4k.  I tried doing combos that all do that much damage each, but none of the requirements were met.

 

It has to be off a guard crush, aka a Crush Trigger starter.

[Spark]

For challenge #20 just OD and combo off a fully charged shippu.

[The_undercover_beret]

edit: never mind, now i'm stuck on challenge #20.  You have to break Azrael's guard and THEN kill him.  Unsure of how to do it

 

Here are three options for challenge 20:

 

The first two are in this video:

 

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26090210

 

Personaly, I did a variation of the first combo:

OD > Shippu(Fully charged) > Zantetsu > CT > 2C > J.C > Hotaru > AD > J.C > 5C > 5C > Shippu(Partially Charged) > Kishuu > 5C > 2C > Shippu(Not charged) for 12,1k

[Moblin]

Oh i never thought of the shippu unblockable even though I used it in tourney just last week.   Thanks guys

[Raziul]

What?!

 

No way.

 

How does this crap still happen.

 

https://youtu.be/yFSSk9Aw6CU?t=2m2s

[BlackYakuzu94]

And they said the air throw game was dead :V

[Moblin]

That happens to me all the time until i call it out, and instead of jumping i hop forward and 5c them out of the air into 9k.   Then they tend to stop hard reading with air grabs.

[Raziul]

I wish they'd just fix the blatantly terrible boxes. Teleport grabs and a crappy controller can seriously ruin this game for me.

[Schneider-X]

Air throws have been like that for quite a while, its just what happens with throw animations because the game just checks if the hitbox of the grab has intersected with the hurtbox of the opponent.

 

Also guys, a Japanese player has upload a very thorough video of the changes to Hakumen in CPEX.  Check it out below.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4lAcDDTNtU

 

I am very sad about what looks like the loss of upper body invincibility to Kishuu.

[BlackYakuzu94]

holy shit, he backdash invincibility now?

 

 

Can someone translate this?

[Raziul]

Why would they give Hakumen backdash invincibility? That'd make too much sense. In the video he's only doing it against grabs. Likely it's the hop property giving him grab invincibility i.e. being off the ground. Was there something stopping that from working in previous versions?

[Spark]

In the old versions he was only grab invincible once he got into the air during the back dash, but now it looks like it's frame 1.

[Moblin]

I always TK'd a Tsubaki when I hard read a grab anyway, so i'm not sure when Haku can use backdash on wake-up any better than that.   But it's a good QoL change for TRM setups perhaps.   Backdash --> 5C can work to bait out a panic-grab during pressure.

[mAc Chaos]

In the old versions he was only grab invincible once he got into the air during the back dash, but now it looks like it's frame 1.

Isn't jump startup supposed to be ungrabbable though? So how could it not have always been grab invincible from frame 1?

That said, there's been many times I tried a throw setup and got grabbed out of the hop. I always just blamed it on my execution though.

 

I guess the answer is even though both involve getting airborne, the hop is categorically different and doesn't have jump startup. For example the forward hop just happens to have the same time to go airborne but it doesn't have the jump startup's grab invincibility.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, I don't think hop has the same properties as a jump.

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[Doze]

anyone got any set ups to catch tech rolls mid screen or corner?

[Raziul]

2B>Gurren is usually my go to confirm against roll techs. I would also use iad agito against back rolls when I had a read, but cpex doesn't give Hakumen the same freedom to toss stars around like candy as it does in cp.

[Moblin]

In CPEX i see porophiccho and Film doing a lot of 5c option selects for rolls, and it works really really well.   I can break down what i've seen later.

[mAc Chaos]

Is there a way to stop rolling out that doesn't also give up oki?

Usually when you do anti-roll stuff you have to just hard commit to the roll read and give up oki if they neutral tech. But if you go in for oki, you free them to roll.

[Spark]

5C ender in the corner covers the most cases.  If you do 3C ender they can delay or roll and it's harder to stop.

 

Basically 5C > 5C(whiff) > 2A/2B will hit near meaty in the corner.  If they don't get up just do another 5C and it's just free damage.  Forward roll gets caught by the 5C and back roll avoids it, but they don't go anywhere because they're still in the corner so it's the same as them neutral teching your 5C.  Only downside to this is you lose a bit of damage from the missing 3C and you have to walk forward a tiny bit to throw after 5Cing them.

 

The other one is is instead of doing 5C > 214A > 5C > 3C you do 5C > 214A > 6A > 6B > 5C(whiff).  If the 5C hits because they didn't tech you go into the above situation.  If they tech you're close enough to 2A/2B/Throw without having to walk forward.

 

Midscreen any combo ending with 3C followed up with 66 > 2B will catch rolls in either direction.  If they tech the 3C instantly the 2B will hit meaty.

[mAc Chaos]

Wait hop forward 2B still catches a forward roll? Usually I have to back up a bit to catch forward rolls. I must be timing it wrong.

[Spark]

They did something to 3C in this game.  When they roll midscreen now the 2B comes out late enough so Hakumen turns around and hits them.

[mAc Chaos]

Huh... my guess is that because they reduced 3C's hitstun, they recover faster and that makes the 2B come out later into their roll.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Hmm, we might actually have something to catch midscreen rolls now.

[The_undercover_beret]

I think it's better to reply here than in the video thread:

 

Here's something I made with the release of BBCPEX.  Hopefully some people find it interesting.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM3Fj7xHAhg

 

 

I messed around in training mode with Mugen today and here is what I found.

 

Your standard, non-OD Mugen combo is, from what I have tested, the best available:

Mugen > Renka(1) > Zantetsu(1) > Kishuu > Dash Agito > Hotaru > Tsubaki > 5C > Guren > Kishuu > 5C > Kishuu > Enma > Shippu(Level 2)

It's easy and to do, works with S-starter and have great corner-carry. There are a few routes that deal more damage, but not much and are harder or require a normal starter.

 

At one point in the video you say: "Now you can only combo into Mugen in a few ways: Throws, 6A and OD Yukikaze"

Actually, there are a few more routes.

 

It's possible to combo into Mugen after a AA 5C, as long as it's not done too close to the ground:

AA CH J.A > 5C > Mugen >... (6628)

AD > AA CH J.A > J.B > 5C > Mugen >... (6568)

AA CH J.B > 5C > Mugen >... (7228)

AA CH J.2A > 5C > Mugen >... (7328)

CH Agito > J.B > 5C > OD cancel > Mugen >... (7158), works even at full health, difficult and doesn't always work because of height.

 

When it is written "Mugen >...", it means it's your route afterward.

 

Another route involve 6C:

 

6C(level 1) > Mugen >...(8721)

Throw > 6C(level 1) > Mugen >... (7790)

In the corner, it's possible to do 6C(level 2) instead for higher damage.

(Corner) Hotaru > AD > OD > J.C > 6C(level 1) > Delay Mugen >... (7958), The Hotaru in the Mugen combo needs to be removed.