[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[chzchan]

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but Hakumen is standing in the dead zone of Kokonoe's 3C.

 

Yeah I should have taken notice that there was not the whiff air loop visual indicator. Whoops.

[raxokoron]

I think it`s not a command grab, but attack with grab animation like ones that Bullet has because of the "Counter" status. It would be "Throw counter" if it was a throw.

 

[Kriegdrache]

I think it`s not a command grab, but attack with grab animation like ones that Bullet has because of the "Counter" status. It would be "Throw counter" if it was a throw.

 

Yeah thats what I thought too. It could still be a really neat option, especially if you can cancel specials off it.

I hope you can do grab > OD > DEATH. That would be rad

[Sophisticat]

HAI GAYZ!

I haven't posted in here in forever. How's Hakumen these days?

If he now has a command grab, I would say his pressure just got legit. It's probably what he needs most.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I haven't posted in here in forever. How's Hakumen these days?

 

 

Right now he's teetering on the border of good-mediocre; OD is still hype as fuck tho.

[Moblin]

Yeah I can't wait for command grab.  It honestly doesn't strike me as that strange, a lot of characters with weaker mixup are given a command grab in FGs I feel.   I still really like this version's hakumen though.  He feels less linear to me in a weird way.

[mAc Chaos]

Hakumen with a command grab. The idea just sounds weird.

 

My normal throw might as well be a command grab anyway for how often I get people with it.

 

[chzchan]

I think it`s not a command grab, but attack with grab animation like ones that Bullet has because of the "Counter" status. It would be "Throw counter" if it was a throw.

 

After talking to Hakumen buddy about it, you are probably right. It only does say "Counter".

 

What I am guessing is that this is maybe a followup to a counter because it sort of looks like Koko is frozen there for a second before getting grappled. Either replacing one of his current D move's animations or being an option to use since it looks like it covers a lot of distance. Like maybe 6 after a D catch so you aren't just stuck there if you are out of the range to hit the opponent.

 

I am not sure on all of this since he only just explained to me how CPE Hakumen gets magatama off of counters which is during the second part when he hits or flips the opponent rather than during the counter's catch. Didn't know that until today.

 

What if it is the animation of some magical new 3D or 4D or some shit? I don't know.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, if they wanted to add extra Drive commands, they don't have to limit themselves to just 3D or 4D. They could go all out and do something like 236D.

[Errol]

Well, if they wanted to add extra Drive commands, they don't have to limit themselves to just 3D or 4D. They could go all out and do something like 236D.

it might even be something like 623D and be active from frame 1 

[chzchan]

Well, if they wanted to add extra Drive commands, they don't have to limit themselves to just 3D or 4D. They could go all out and do something like 236D.

 

They really could just do that, but if they wanted to stay consistent despite it being a counter, it would need to cost magatama. They could also just not give a shit though. Ha, they could have a bunch of special D inputs that would have their own respective tiers of expense and utility like his ground and air specials.

 

236D - 1 magatama

214D - 2 magatama

623D - 3 magatama

 

...leading up to the super

236236D - 4 magatama

 

Then it would be like an investment where you get some magatama back if you spend it on the counter. Each would do some cool shit or be like a lesser form of the super counter. So like spend 1 magatama to counter both high and low on frame 1. Spend 3 magatama to counter lows and grabs ha.

 

Or they could just give him magatama-free special counters that he can use to close a massive amount of distance against projectiles and long pokes like Bang's drives.

[Moblin]

I wonder if they just added it as an optional follow up after successful drive, like hold A to do Enma in pre-extend CP.  

 

Time will tell.   For now, get used to those new CPE changes.  I like this game a lot

[BlackYakuzu94]

Anyone been utilizing special cancels off counters at all?

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[mAc Chaos]

I noticed it came in handy against Nu. Also against Hakumen.

 

Been experimenting to see what I can do against her swords and Haku 4C with it. Like suppose you 5D Haku 4C, and then Gurren or something.

[mAc Chaos]

command grab is official, 214D

 

WE IN THERE

[BlackYakuzu94]

I'm just gonna call it the chokeslam.

[Kikirin]

Was Enma always free after Kishuu? I don't think I see a magatama cost on it in the BBCF command list.

http://www.blazblue.jp/cf/images/playguide.pdf

[BlackYakuzu94]

Nope, its always costed a star after Kishuu till now. 

[mAc Chaos]

Let's clarify.

 

Someone inspected the JP on the movelist and apparently it doesn't straight out say it's a command grab.

 

So it uses a star, is it's own move and not a new animation, and slams them into the ground. So it MIGHT and probably is a command grab, but not necessarily.

 

It could also be something like a strike grapple, like Bullet's Drive.

[mAc Chaos]

OK so... loketest info coming out. Apparently Haku's 214D is a rushing counter?

[BlackYakuzu94]

So do we have any Option Selects off of 5C at all, or 6C? I'm kinda tired of getting bursted on for a successful punish :\

 

 

Before you could just Kishuu through the immediate burst or if they delayed it, just block. But now....yea.

[Spark]

On CH you can OD cancel, and block if they burst.  But that's really it.  Though next game we can at least bait bursts with 214D.

[BlackYakuzu94]

That sucks, you'd have to sacrifice 4 stars to RC the the 5C. You can't 5C>Shippu either without being a certain distance either.

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[MangoBlackTea]

Hey guys i need some help with hakumen pressure. My opponents keep doing upback barrier to escape my pressure, what should i be doing to stop that besides trying to read it and air grabbing them?

 

Edit: Another question; does j.2a > j.c after hotaru work on ALL characters in the corner now? 

[Moblin]

Hi MangoBlackTea,  Here are a few things I use to stop my opponents from up-backing.  Try these things:

 

 

5C > Zantetsu, if timed correctly, is a frame trap for upback and will eat them out of their jump startup.  Put a training dummy to upback and practice the timing.  

 

 5C on their block > ODC, Renka is a devastating frame trap.  I think they might need to barrier it for it to be perfect.  However, if this setup works you get an unburstable OD combo off Renka(1), which then leads to a 7k+ OD combo.  I've had opponents hold upback while I ODC'd before, and a buffered Renka right after the superflash hits them low out of blockstun reliably.   This is probably the biggest punish and callout for an opponent who loves to upback, but it requires OD.  

 

5C is your anti-jump out move, and it hurts a lot.  But it depends on when your opponent likes to upback.  What moves are they upbacking after you use it?    If it's 2b, cancel the 2b with Gurren to catch them out of jump.  The timing requires practice.

 

If you can hit their block with 5C, you can also cancel into Gurren, or even 5C > Kishuu, 5C and it will have a good chance of either hitting them or them barrier blocking it in the air, which sinks them to the ground again.

 

 

I've also seen JP hakumens do this a lot, but it's more a hard read instead of an option coverage like the others:

 

Use a move like 2b or 5c that is blocked > kishuu, and then literally just hesitate for a second. Then, (or even hop forward), 5C.  This will snag them out of the air if they upback, if they grab it will counterhit them, and if they mash after they see you're doing nothing,  it also has a good chance of counterhitting them.   This is risky but in this version, Hakumen has to make hard reads to win.