[AC] Johnny vs Baiken

[Alternate275]

Wow. This matchup seems like it's entirely in Baiken's favor. Weight is a huge issue. Hard to land coins, KJ pops her HIGH into the air, and the B&B combos I'm used to performing against others don't work. To top it all off... She can counter. I personally find this matchup discouraging. I find myself trying to constantly bait counters (or other moves) from her and trying to punish accordingly And just for sh**s and giggles... I decided to throw out JO's IK (Probably the WORST IK in the entire game). To add on, Baiken can duck it just by standing to. Not that it matters, but I find it rather insulting >.> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some List O' Mist setups/Enkasu combos against Baiken. Cuz you need them + Corner Throw, j.P, j.S, j.D, Ensenga + Corner Throw, j.K, j.S, j.D, Ensenga + Corner Throw, j.P, j.S, dj.P, j.S, j.D, Ensenga + Corner Throw, j.K, j.S, dj.K, j.S, j.D, Ensenga + Midscreen Throw, j.P, KJ(FRC), j.D, Ensenga + MFlvl2 (low), j.K, j.S, dj.S, j.H, KJ(FRC), j.D, Ensenga + AnyPokeString, MFlvl2 (mid), Coin, Jackhound, 5S (Close), j.K, j.S, KJ(FRC), j.D, Ensenga These should help some during the battles against Baiken >.o

[dirsian]

rezzing this thread for help... this matchup has been pretty brutal to me... i am roughly on par with the rest of the group that I play with, and can win ~40-60% of the matchups i play... but this one just demolishes me... I can be on the top of my game (which isn't very good, I don't MC enough, I can't Enkasu worth a damn, I can't wavedash, I very occasionally miss a TK Ensenga), and still get DESTROYED.... i've won maybe 2 matches out of 40 what should I do/work on/look out for that hasn't already been outlined in this forum? It doesn't help that my other main is ABA, who shares Baiken with Johnny as BITCH character... and at least ABA has danzai

[10stars]

rezzing this thread for help...

this matchup has been pretty brutal to me...

i am roughly on par with the rest of the group that I play with, and can win ~40-60% of the matchups i play... but this one just demolishes me...

I can be on the top of my game (which isn't very good, I don't MC enough, I can't Enkasu worth a damn, I can't wavedash, I very occasionally miss a TK Ensenga), and still get DESTROYED.... i've won maybe 2 matches out of 40

what should I do/work on/look out for that hasn't already been outlined in this forum?

It doesn't help that my other main is ABA, who shares Baiken with Johnny as BITCH character... and at least ABA has danzai

You HAVE to have your mcs down for this fight. Go for throw setups more frequently since baiken likes being defensive. Really baiken wants to wait until you 5h > coin and guarantee free stuff.

[4r5]

If you can't consistently MC then there isn't really much to talk about. Not even for this matchup, but Johnny in general.

[A3Religion]

One quick tip when I am unblockable looping Baiken in the corner to make sure to hit players when you have the mist on them you have to do a low into MF lvl 2, my preference is 2K into MF lvl 2. The person usually isn't fast enough to guard cancel it even if they see it, its a fast confirm hit.

[Killerwatt]

One quick tip when I am unblockable looping Baiken in the corner to make sure to hit players when you have the mist on them you have to do a low into MF lvl 2, my preference is 2K into MF lvl 2. The person usually isn't fast enough to guard cancel it even if they see it, its a fast confirm hit.

Good to know; I've become so used to 3HS as oki that it doesn't register sometimes that bacon can opt out of it for free. This matchup really fucks around with Johnny's B&B system of advancing on an opponent.

Also how does one deal with tatami spam coinless? 6P trades/loses (WTF???) and MF1 high is risky.

[qwerty]

guard? ib? fd? idk, it's been awhile since i've played this game. also 2S is a great meaty as well.

[A3Religion]

I know people are really discouraged by this matchup and I hear you. I was the same way also, until I started fighting the matchup a lot more often. What I have come to understand is a lot of weak points on her part. I believe the mentality that I have adopted is: 1) Predict my opponent's guard cancels. 2) Kill her in three combos (which is most of my fights). You can honestly bullshit combos and they will actually do a lot of damage on her as long as there isn't too much fluff (like p,k,j.p,j.k, and etc.) 3) Play the sickest Oki scoops game there is out there. 4) FD her ground game, and coin or early MF lvl 1-2 P, her air game. 5) If number 1 doesn't work, be patient, and figure out the guard cancel they are most comfortable doing. 1) All of her guard cancels can be blocked if you do a jc normal into a jump FD, except for her FB I think. Almost all of them can also be followed up by a tk DB, and it will either hit or help you escape. The HS GC, I counter with a coin (CH)-Hs-mf lvl 2 p-Dash jump cancel-j.s-j.s-j.hs-Kj Frc-J.s-J.s-J.hs-J.d-Ensenga which is easy to do, and takes 317 damage.... so I'd practice that. The P GC can be stopped if you continue the blockstring but it is sometime-ish, one of the more impregnable GCs, but takes like no damage on you. The S GC one has a lot of invincibility so you really have to wait out the animation unless they FRC and then it doesn't matter because you can't punish it. I sometimes jump and then do a late j.hs to punish but it has strict timing and no guarantees. The K GC can be punished if its not FRCed if you have MCed or didn't any norm greater than Close S. The FB GCs are ultimate, its okay just get hit LOL, actually you can OD but its not worth it. Overall, on almost all you can coin and then block except for the FBs. 2) If you hit her, don't drop the baby. Don't go to the abortion clinic, keep all the babies even adopt some. That's all I gotta say about that. 3) Oh man, if you grab her into combo (because you can't coin her off throw), it will take about 25% damage if you do J.k-J.s-J.s-J.hs-J.d-Ensenga. On Oki, play with doing Tk Db to punish her for going for the grab or super and grabbing her into the combo. If you play that game well you will come up with significant damage at the end. About 6 Throws, kills her. 4) Her ground game is ass, just FD and you'll be fine. Just watch out for the occasional 5d. Her tatami spamming is stopped by Lvl2 MFs and coins into AA to stop her. Her Youzansen combos, don't mean dick unless she has 50% tension. 5) If you don't see a consistent pattern in GCs, just wait it out, you'll see the pattern. Or wait it out, they are bound to mess up. Also this is something that most Baikens do, when they are cornered they will HS GC out. That is when you do the coin counterhit into before said combo. Quick note: When she runs up to tick throw, don't do a low because when she stops from running she is lower body invincible. *shrug* I don't get it either, try doing 2P to be safe.

[Luminaire]

I play against Baiken pretty much constantly, and I have noticed exactly one thing: All of her guard cancels are absolutely terrible if you're ready for them. Against Baiken, going for block strings is going to get you hurt every time, whether by Sakura or sidestep-throw/combo. Your best bet, at least in the beginning, is to bait her into guard cancels. Any of Johnny's pokes can be used for this if you mist cancel properly, except perhaps 6HS or 6K. Generally, I've found it best to poke with 5k and 5HS to bait a counter. If she uses Sakura (that's the foreward-stab one) just block, then sweep. The same holds for the guard-cancel where she ducks down and throws a chain. If she has not RCed it when she sees you block, you're very likely to get a hit from at least the second hit of 2D. Sakura can be FRCed, but the FRC is late enough in the move that she will still probably eat the 2D The hilarity comes when she does what I've noticed baiken does a lot, sidestep in an attempt to tick-throw or combo. A very good deal of the time, when she sidesteps she ends up *in* Johnny's character model, so if you're baiting it correctly it is a free throw. Baiken also has a tendency to use Oren (The flippy air-move that hits you from behind), and you can bait this with coins if you dont mind getting a coin blocked once in a while. Simply, when you feel pretty certain that she is going to Oren when she blocks, you just toss a coin and instantly TK Ensega for a nasty counter-hit as her move starts. It is very possible to win rounds against Baiken by simply baiting then countering her guard cancels, and Johnny for some reasons seems to be exceptionally good at this. Probably due to the range of his pokes. I wouldnt recommend trying to bait-counter for an entire match, as it will stop working once the Baiken player gets wary. Your best bet is to see what kind of guard cancels your particular Baiken likes to use, and then bait those particular moves mercilessly. Not at all comprehensive, but what I've just said is an excellent way around those pesky guard-cancels. Best case scenario, you bait her all the way to a win. Worst case scenario? She just stops using them, which is also good for you.

[vedasisme]

hehe...oki scoops.

[frcflyingjohnny]

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMBHH1t-TcM FINALLY some DC on BAIKEN action i been lookin 4 this

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMBHH1t-TcM#t=8m29s musta been havin a fun night

3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_AxBQsk860#t=6m20s

4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6vdV2cYE-4 Is Baiken warmed up yet?

[frcflyingjohnny]

Videos 181

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1n7S8WbvPo#t=2m15s (8+ coins)

[frcflyingjohnny]

bigOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

a-cho

1. www.youtube.com/watch?v=m65_Zgh-A8k (10 coins)