The Michigan Thread 10 - You Gonna Get Taken Home.

[Skye]

Pff, did you see Valkenhayn?

He was lucky to scrape 2k.

[LuminAbyss]

Lol, Ragna's average damage in CS 2 right now is like 1.2-2k midscreen and MAYBE if you get optimal hits 3500 in the corner ~4500 with super. Nobody even uses BE anymore since it never seems to hit.

Unless someone finds some Carl clap loop level shit it's looking grim for Ragna mains.

Watch as we find a way to still make people rage.

Also Dead Spike Combos Hype.

Besides, averaging that damage, but having better pressure options AND mix-up means, while each combo is gonna be weak on it's own, you're gonna have the tools to hit them again.

And again.

And again.

Suddenly, you hear the bad announcer go "RAGNA WIN."

They just need time to find his new good combos is all.

lol at people thinking Ragna is crap now that he doesn't average 4k and no BE

Edited December 11, 2010 by LuminAbyss

[LunaKage]

Wait... So Ragna needs to have broken damage to be a viable competitor? Maybe, I dunno, you could actually put that IBing you're always doing to use, and Divide the shit out of those infernos. Then again, you're switching to Makoto anyway, so I guess that point is moot.

[Prototype909]

Ragna doesn't really have greatly improved pressure options when you take into account everything he lost in CS.

2C -> 6B looks good on paper, but we had to lose 6A -> 6B which is infinitely better as a mixup option.

Anything into 6A looks good on paper, but 6A can no longer gatling into anything unless it hits. 6C is slower and weaker for p1 (Making it not really even worth using as a low option on occasion), lost meter that made his pressure respectable, 22C seems to only connect in specific situations, etc. Other than still seemingly being able to generate 20~40 meter off corner combos exclusively (Seeing as Dead Spike grants 10 meter or so on hit, just an estimation) and getting a pseudo oki setup off his ID drop kick (Which is probably nowhere near as good as BE 22C enders or emergency tech force off 3C).

It's hard to justify everything that he lost by saying "Oh, but he got a few things that are worse than what he had before to make up for it"

[Prototype909]

Wait... So Ragna needs to have broken damage to be a viable competitor? Maybe, I dunno, you could actually put that IBing you're always doing to use, and Divide the shit out of those infernos. Then again, you're switching to Makoto anyway, so I guess that point is moot.

Because I'm too lazy to actually type out a new reply

Ragna's mixup is too poor to merit an average level or below average level of damage. Characters like Bang are good at what they do because while they have 3.2-3.8k damage average combos in CS (Without meter), they have many chances and ways to connect into those combos (In addition to high damage max combos).

With Ragna's current changes (Loss of massive heat gain, and 22C effectively dead as a gimp oki option, loss of 6A gatlings) I feel as if having such a low average damage would be suicide for his character. You can't expect a character with such telegraphed mixup to succeed when he's hitting for so little outside of his optimal hits. Ragna having high damage gives his mixup a fear element, that no matter how bad his mixup is, one wrong block and you're feeling massive pain. Take it away, and the fear and psuedo respectability goes with it.

[LuminAbyss]

Ragna doesn't really have greatly improved pressure options when you take into account everything he lost in CS.

2C -> 6B looks good on paper, but we had to lose 6A -> 6B which is infinitely better as a mixup option.

Anything into 6A looks good on paper, but 6A can no longer gatling into anything unless it hits. 6C is slower and weaker for p1 (Making it not really even worth using as a low option on occasion), lost meter that made his pressure respectable, 22C seems to only connect in specific situations, etc. Other than still seemingly being able to generate 20~40 meter off corner combos exclusively (Seeing as Dead Spike grants 10 meter or so on hit, just an estimation) and getting a pseudo oki setup off his ID drop kick (Which is probably nowhere near as good as BE 22C enders or emergency tech force off 3C).

It's hard to justify everything that he lost by saying "Oh, but he got a few things that are worse than what he had before to make up for it"

To be honest, this isn't as bad as you make it sound. Since 6A was more or less used as a launcher (6C leading into dash then 6A) and not in pressure, losing that gatlings on it isn't going to hurt much, if at all. I don't even know if it's going to be used as much anymore, and it's still jump cancellable. As for the whole 22C options, didn't most people use it only after using 3C? And since 3C COMBOS into 22C, combined with 22C's plus frames now, his pressure is still respectable.

Granted he isn't going to be as good as he was in CS, but he's not gonna be shit now, he's just going to be good in a different, more respectable way.

Besides, it's week one. Giving it time is probably the best thing we can do right now. And regardless, I'm not dropping him. Even if he does end up being the new Rachel of the game.

Edited December 11, 2010 by LuminAbyss

[LunaKage]

Oh well, I tried, stay salty. I have no pity for Ragna players.

[LuminAbyss]

It's okay Luna. Imma respect your Noel more now.

[A.X.I.S.]

FYI Ragna's 6A was really good, it lead to lows and overheads and made 6B less risky to throw out.

[LuminAbyss]

FYI Ragna's 6A was really good, it lead to lows and overheads and made 6B less risky to throw out.

fff that's right /stays free

But still, it's not like losing that is a big deal.

YOU KNOW WHAT. I DON'T KNOW. I'm just gonna stay free and stick up for Ragna.

[Prototype909]

To be honest, this isn't as bad as you make it sound. Since 6A was more or less used as a launcher (6C leading into dash then 6A) and not in pressure, losing that gatlings on it isn't going to hurt much, if at all.Granted he isn't going to be as good as he was in CS, but he's not gonna be shit now, he's just going to be good in a different, more respectable way.

5B -> 6A was one of the best pressure options Ragna had in CS and CT. You could do:

5B -> 6A -> Jump

5B -> 6A -> 6B

5B -> 6A -> 3C -> Jump cancel

5B -> 6A -> 2C -> Block

5B -> 6A -> IAD Crossup ID

5B -> 6A -> TK GH

Not to mention 6A as a whole was a high level move with AA properties, making any gatling option you could get off it great, so don't tell me losing that isn't a big deal.

And Luna, way to completely ignore the entirely reasonable post I made explaining why this is bad and then write it off as being salty. I realize listening to the voice of reason hasn't always been your most well known quality, but to just ignore two posts of me explaining in detail why Ragna needs at least above average damage in comparison to the rest of the cast shows that your mentality is something close to that of a 5 year old.

EDIT - Get that fucking smiley face out of my post

[mAc Chaos]

You're switching to Makoto? She might not be any better off anyway.

I'm sure Ragna will be fine. He still has the best reversal in the game. You don't need to do a lot of damage per combo, just be able to do resets and land hits.

[LuminAbyss]

5B -> 6A was one of the best pressure options Ragna had in CS and CT. You could do:

5B -> 6A -> Jump

5B -> 6A -> 6B

5B -> 6A -> 3C -> Jump cancel

5B -> 6A -> 2C -> Block

5B -> 6A -> IAD Crossup ID

5B -> 6A -> TK GH

Not to mention 6A as a whole was a high level move with AA properties, making any gatling option you could get off it great, so don't tell me losing that isn't a big deal.

I think you can still do those. But yeah, i see what you're getting at now though. Still, I'm gonna wait and see how it effects him in the long run for I either go "Eh, no biggie" or "FFFFFFUUUUU-".

To me it wasn't a big deal because since I'm so free I only used it as a launcher or I J.C if I pulled it out in pressure. But I do get your point now.

I'm sure Ragna will be fine. He still has the best reversal in the game. You don't need to do a lot of damage per combo, just be able to do resets and land hits.

Yeah, this is what I'm banking on, and so far, it looks both on paper and in actual gameplay that he can do this pretty well.

[mAc Chaos]

Also I can't wait for Arakune to be S tier. It will happen, mark my words. :P

[Black Onslaught]

CAN'T YOU GUYS SEE CS2 IS TEARING US ALL APART

[Prototype909]

I think you can still do those. But yeah, i see what you're getting at now though. Still, I'm gonna wait and see how it effects him in the long run for I either go "Eh, no biggie" or "FFFFFFUUUUU-".

To me it wasn't a big deal because since I'm so free I only used it as a launcher or I J.C if I pulled it out in pressure. But I do get your point now.

The last two are still possible, but without the meter are you really going to want to risk IAD crossup ID? And the TK GH is a lot less scary when it's your only overhead option after 6A now. It's all relative to losing his other options.

[A.X.I.S.]

Also I can't wait for Arakune to be S tier. It will happen, mark my words. :P

According to a JP tier list ara is SS tier and makoto and noel are S tier.

[Delrian]

CAN'T YOU GUYS SEE CS2 IS TEARING US ALL APART

This isn't the first time this has happened; it's not a big deal. Stay drama queen.

So far I'm looking forward to CS2.

[Black Onslaught]

I thought that said " stay dairy queen " I almost blushed

almost

[Delrian]

Dairy queen is top tier though. /BO is a tier whore jokes

But yeah, announcer gets nerfed so DLC announcers get purchased more... Brilliant.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Delrian

[mAc Chaos]

According to a JP tier list ara is SS tier and makoto and noel are S tier.

:8/:

welp

:vbang::vbang::vbang:

[Skye]

I have no pity for Ragna players.

QTF, except Lumin.

[Prototype909]

[mAc Chaos]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10715-BBCS2-Summary-amp-Impressions

kune'd

Also I'm kind of sad you're switching from Ragna, Prototype. You were always one of the player's I identified with Ragnas.

[Prototype909]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10715-BBCS2-Summary-amp-Impressions

kune'd

Also I'm kind of sad you're switching from Ragna, Prototype. You were always one of the player's I identified with Ragnas.

I'm not full dropping him, I'm just learning a second character (Who if things turn out really bad in the end I will probably use more predominantly). It's not like I'm going to be like "LOL, Ragna WHO!?"