shtkn Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Hey guys, by now i'm sure you guys have seen Spirit Juice's plan to make video tutorials for everyone http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11073-Community-Project-BBCS2-Character-Tutorial-Videos Yuushiro and I have been working on a list of stuff on google docs, and I figured we've made enough progress that we can show you what we have so far. Clearly it's not finished, and I want to cull the combo section so it's not as big, but hooray, progress! 1) Introduction Character breakdown of play style, strengths, and weaknesses Jin’s strengths are: being a jack-of-all-trades (meaning he will always have a tool in almost any given situation), and being able to use “EX Attacks” for 25% Heat. His weakness is he doesn’t excel in any one area. Note: be careful when using any ex attacks since your heat gain will decrease for a while. My advice is to spend most of your heat once you get to the corner and don't spam unnecessary 25% EX. Playstyle is midscreen zoning with tools like j.C, 5C, 5D, 623A, 2D until you get an opportunity to rush the opponent down and stick them in the corner. From there, find a way to start your damaging 623C loops. Breakdown of normals AA normals are 5C, 5B, 2A, 2C. Jin’s air-to-air normals are dependant on enemy’s position (if in range of j.A, use it, otherwise use j.C), if opponent is above or below you, use j.B or j.2C (depending on their position: j.B hitbox most likely won't hit enemy above you and it has a wheel like animation. Try using j2C if the enemy going to be above you). j.B and j.2C can be used as jump in crossups 6B is used as a way to catch opponents who try to break a throw. Be sure to mix in things such as 2B every once in a while to keep them guessing. If they do the 3ABC option select, you can react to this with a throw (since they will be in a throw reject miss state for a while)! When the opponent is crouching, 5C > 6C and 2C > 6C both work. 2D is used as blockstring ender since it leaves Jin at +5. However using it haphazardly is not a good idea 5D is used sparingly as a part of combos and as a zoning tool since it hits pretty far in front of him. However doing it too close will leave you vulnerable to counter attack. 3C is a sweep that’s used primarily in combos. You can combo into ice car for damage. 6A is your overhead that comes over very quickly, but does requires a RC (or a counter hit) to combo afterwards. It is safe on block and removes a guard primer. 6C is mostly used in combos, but can be used to punish opponents who recklessly jump 2C is used in pressure strings to catch enemies who try to jump out. Breakdown of special moves Changes from CS1 to CS2 +2C>5C gatling, easy to confirm for fatal , can't do the 2nd 2C +sekkajin knockback decreases a lot +2B >5B gatling added, cant do 2nd 2B +623C does 1300 instead of 1000 dmg. untechable time increased; opponent will hit the ground on normal hit + Yukikaze now does 3080 damage + jump is now 4F startup (was 5F in CS1) + j.B is looking as dangerous as it was in CT.(probably because of the new jump startup) + You can do "5B > 2B" and 5B > 6A", it looks like 6A is a really fun move to use now. + Neutral throw's freeze time is longer now. + 5B is air unblockable (must FD in the air) + 5C is air unblockable (must FD in the air) + 6A removes a guard primer on block + 214B and j.214B knock down +623B 's untechable time greatly increased, ground hit would be until they're knocked down, can follow up with 5C and 2D +5C has better vertical range, can be used more as AA +j.2C has bigger hitbox below Jin +5D speed is faster than CS1, combo from 5C. - 623C has longer recovery - 623D seems to have the same move proration, combos with 2 623D's involved pretty much don't work anymore (less dmg for corner loops?) - 3C techable - 5C has less horizontal reach - 6A forces crouch on hit (6A > rapid cancel > 5C>6C possible) , cant be special canceled - back throw prorated really bad -6D doesn't break primer anymore - throw is not cancellable anymore, but you can combo with dash 6C and does something around 2000 - 214D's startup looks slower -623B's low hitbox removed, won't hit any crouching characters. 2) Combos Basic combos Starter 5B: 5B (2) > 5C > Sekkajin > 6C > 2D > 6C > 214C (2780 damage) 5B (2) > 5C > Sekkajin > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C > j.2C > j.D > 6C > 214C (3054 damage) Corner: 5B (2) > 5C > 623B > 6C > 6D > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.2C > 214C (3224 damage) 5B (2) > 5C > 623B > 6C > 6D > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.C > dj.2C > 214C (3333 damage) 5B (2) > 5C > 623B > 6C > 6D > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3584 damage) Tager specific: 5B (2) > 5C > j.B > j.2C > j.C > 5C > j.B > j.2C > j.D > 5B > 3C > 214C (2887 damage) Crouchers only: 5B (2) > 5C > 6C > Dash > 5C > j.2C > j.D > Airdash > j.2C > j.C > 5B (2) > 2B > 5C > 3C (3009 damage) Starter 623D: 623D > 632146C (3082 damage, tested against Valkenhayn) 623D > 6C > 6D > 5C > sj.C > sj.2C > dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3753 damage) 623D > 6C > 623B > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (4227 damage) 623D > 6C > 623B > 6C > Dash > 623D > 6D > 5C > sj.2C > 214C (4529 damage) Starter 2D: 2D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > 214C (2388 damage, 28 meter) 2D > 6C > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214C (2690 damage, 25 meter) 2D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3021 damage) 2D > 6C > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3094 damage) Ground Throw: forward/back Throw > (Backthrow needs a slight Dash) > 6C > Dash > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214C (2229 damage) forward throw>5C>214B forward throw>2D>5A>5C>214B forward throw>2D>5A>5C>5D>214D>6C>214C forward/back throw into the corner > 6C > 623B > 6C > 623C > 5A > 5C > 2C > 623C Airthrow: Airthrow > 6C > Dash > 5C > 6C > Dash > j.C >dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (3449 damage) Starter 6C: 6C CH > Dash > 6C > 2D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > 214C (3738 damage) 6C CH > Dash > 6C > 2D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > Dash > 5C > sj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (4378 damage) 6C CH > Dash > 6C > 2D > 6C > Dash > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214C (4046 damage) 6C CH > Dash > 6C > 2D > 6C > Dash > 6C > Dash > j.C > dj.2C > 214D > 6C > 214C (4457 damage) Starter 6D 6D > 6B > Sekkajin > 6C > Dash > 5C > 6C > Dash >j.C > dj.2C > 214C (3517 damage) 6D > 623B > 6C > 6D > 623D > 6C > 6D > 5C > sj.2C > 214C (3964 damage) Sekkajin combo(when going from midscreen to corner) 5B>5C>sekkajin>6C>dc>small dash>5C>6C>6D〜 Fatal Counter 2C(FC)→5C→6C→2D→6B→5C→2C→6C(dc)→5C→(jc)→JC→(jc)→J2 C→214 B You can substitute the 214B with J214D→6C→214C at the end instead. new jin combo quick summary courtesy of stunedge: B>C>Bdp>2C>6C>6D>IAD J2C>JC>B>2B>C>3C>214C 46% heat 3200 sth B>C>sekka>6C>2D>6B>sekka>JC>214B 38% heat 2800 sth B>C>Bdp>2C>6C>Cdp>B>C>JC>JD>214B throw>6C>Bdp>6C>Cdp>A>C>JC>jc>J2C>214B 2D>6C>Bdp>6C>5C>6C>Cdp>A>C>HJ2C>214B Advanced combos Counter hit and Fatal Counter combos Character specific combos (if needed) (Keep in mind that the combo section is going to be 100% practical combos you would use in a tournament, not flashy, combo video material) 3) Strategy Mixups 1. 6B throw feint. This can be defeated by either mashing or doing the barrier block/ throw break option select (1+ABC) if the opponent uses the option select, delay your throw slightly and they will be unable to break the throw (throw reject miss) if the opponent is mashing, just do a fast attack to hit them out of it. Also if they are mashing 2A while blocking because they want to prevent you to dashin>throw try doing a frame trap 2A>2A>delay>5C for example. 2. 6A. Requires an RC or a counter hit to continue the combo. 3. 5B now gatling to 6A or 2B, giving them 50-50 guess especially if you have meter 4. freeze from a j.D or corner 236D into jump in high/ low/ throw 5. air dash 3 ice or jD..., giving them cross up/fake cross up to worry about. Do it when you get pushed back a little bit far away. In the corner you can do jD after 5B since the 2nd hit of 5B will pull the enemy towards you 6. 6B>3 ice or fireballs. 7. jump in place jC on mid range. 8. fuzzy guard setup with j.2C. 9. Multiple j2C if it's hit because it's jump cancellable or j2C>jB for multiple overheads. 10. Hit them with a lot of jump moves.., ex. : j.B>j.2C>j.D> 3 Ice. j.B>j2C>(jc)>j.B>j.A>j.A j.B>j2C>(airdash back)>j.C 11. 5B/2B/5C blocked>jump back>j.236A/B>air dash j.2C or jump delay j.C 12. pressure(5B)> IAD j2C in the corner Pressure 1.midscreen blah blah 2D, run up 2A or 2B blah blah 2D, blah blah 2D... (don't spam 2D too much though, almost all character have counters for it if they are looking for it. If you keep 2D-ing after pressure). 2. 5D dash cancel should only be done at far ranges since it is -4. Sometimes I like to cancel it to uppercut to keep them honest and guessing and not just mashing eventhough it's negative on our part. It's risky and dangerous though. (dash cancel from 6C or 5D) 3. I throw my enemies a lot eventhough the dmg is low. It will carry them far to the corner. 4. jump-in j.B and j.2C. I mix it sometimes with empty jump, 2B to keep them guessing. Or jump in 3 ice or air fireball to keep prevent them from just spamming DP or AA moves. 5. midscreen into IAD (cross them up) j.C Okizeme 1.2A, 2B and 5C are your general roll stoppers. a.In the corner after a 3C, you can use 236C b.also 5B, 2A, 2B will stop people from rolling out from the corner. you can try to use purple air throw sometimes to return them back to the corner. c. If you are doing the corner loop and ending your combo with rehhyou you can try to jump for mixup and j2C will catch them if they try to roll out or quick getup. Otherwise if they neutral tech then you can do whatever mix up you want. 2. Crossunder 2A when they neutral tech 3. Gimmicky but you can do ice car B if you think they gonna roll backward 4.3C > 236D doesn't work anymore in BBCS2. You can substitute this with 6C(delay)>236D instead but sometimes it's not worth it remember this is for characters with big hitbox Misc. tips/tricks 1.You can do 2 air projectiles in a row if the first one disappears quickly enough and you are high off the ground. you can also do multiple j.C or combination of those 2. 2.Remember that Jin best poke is 5B but now you can also mix it up with 2B and 2B cancel to 5B too. 3. Remember 2C as a very vertical anti air and you can cancel it to 5C make it so much more safer move. But still you don't want to spam this. Think of it as your dead angle DP. 4. Ice arrow CH have untechable time till the enemy hits the ground, so does Yukikaze. Use this opportunity to deal more dmg if you can. For the ice arrow, you can swap corner by doing dash in 2B to slip under the enemy hitbox and make them to be in the corner instead. gdlk comeback tools for both of them. can do 6000++ dmg with 100% meter in either situation. 5. use frame trap once in a while delay some of your normals like before 5C or 2C to get a counter hit. ex. 5B>2B> delay>5C (CH) 2B>5B>delay>2C (FC) 6. end your combos with hjc>j.C>jD... and then airdash jD or 3 ice for air crossup mixup As a rule of thumb, freezes from normals (5D, 2D, 6D, j.D) can only be the first freeze in the combo. After that you can only use 25% special attacks and distortion drives to refreeze the opponent. Edited June 16, 2011 by Yuushiro
CaelSeraphim Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 You can add this to the Misc.Tricks section if you wish: -B+C > 14A> 44(on the right side)> 6C Throw cross-under lol 6C usually gets CH on mashers. A more practical way to follow up would be: 44>5C>214x
Moy_X7 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 ^^ You can't special cancel throws in CS2, that gimmick is impossible to do now. Not bad, there are some thing which I could nitpick, such as that FD abbreviation. I doubt that people who have not played GG will know what that abbreviation stands for, you might consider changing it to "BG" or simply spell out the two words being "Barrier Guard" or "Barrier Block". I'll go ahead and post something that I noticed and posted in the Gimmicks thread. "Blocked j.B/j.2C/j.D cross-up > j.236D double cross-up, was this gimmick discussed before? As of now, I can get it to work on Tager. It works in the same way as a j.236D feint-cross-up would. You cross somebody up with j.B/j.2C/j.D and if gets blocked then you cancel it into j.236D, that which pushes Jin back to the other side. Tager is such a fat bastard that it actually works on him and it works against Arakune with the right spacing. It might work against more character but I don't know as of yet. *shrugs*" Maybe you could add ways to setup j.D/j.236D resets at the end of combos as time goes on. By the way, I thought that 3C > 236D didn't work anymore. Does it only work on characters with huge grounded hit-boxes such as Tager, Arakune, and Rachel?
CaelSeraphim Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 no special cancels in CS2. Wow. That's what I get for not watching any CS2 vids at all.
Yuushiro Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 you don't even watch/play CS2 videos and you want to give input to BBCS2 tutorial. wow, just wow.....
Moy_X7 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Don't forget 5A, I find myself using that normal as my main anti-air. SJ will be the one showcasing Jin's tools and editing the video as he sees fit, right? I was going to say that maybe you should add more details to every single one of Jin's normals and specials but that might not be necessary.
shtkn Posted March 2, 2011 Author Posted March 2, 2011 you're right, i forgot 2A anti air. I used to think that 2C as an anti air would work, but in my experiences in CS1, it hasnt worked very well and i woudl be better off doing one of the other options. I can't say if it will work any better in CS2, but I'm not going to add that in just yet.
vanfleihight Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 Important Combos: 5B (2) > 5C > Sekkajin > Dash > 5C > j.2C > j.D > Airdash > j.2C > j.C > 5B (2) > 2B > 5C > 3C 2A > 5C > j.2C > j.D > Airdash > j.2C > j.C > 5B (2) > 2B > 5C > 3C > (214C) For Misc: You should probably have a note about how 6C likes to cross itself up sometimes based on spacing like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGXhdEPKP5M#t=3m57s It's also useful if you have your back against the wall and start a combo that leads into 5C > 6C and make the 6C cross up so they end up in the corner you were just in. ... > 6C > 2D > 236D > cross under > 6C > 214C Another corner position switch if you have spare meter.
Jourdal Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) Corner 6C>DP B>6C>DP C>5A>5C>6C(2C)>DP C = 4,161 (4,056 with 2C instead) 29% Meter gain (28 with 2C) You can throw in an extra 2C before the second 6C for another 100 or so damage. Edited March 30, 2011 by Jourdal
xlolxlolx Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 6C>623B>6C>623C>5A>5C>2C>sj.D>5B>3C>623B>214C = 4353 dmg 41 meter gain 6C>623B>6C>623C>5B>5C>6C>623C>5A>5C>2C>623C = 5098 dmg 43 meter gain 6C>623B>6C>623C>5B>5C>6C>623C>5A>5C>632146D>6C>632146D>5C>6C>623C = 7052 dmg CH 6C>DC>6C>623B>6C>623C>5B>5C>6C>623C>5A>5C>632146D>6C>632146D>6C>623C = 7245 dmg
xlolxlolx Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 it doesnt, otherwise the 7k combos i listed would've done around 1.5k-2k less
Yuushiro Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 ah okay I was just thinking if you mixup the 6C with 2C or something would it be better or not
Moy_X7 Posted March 30, 2011 Posted March 30, 2011 So 6C doesn't have same move proration after all, huh? That's some good news. I can't wait for CSII to hit the consoles; there's so much shit I wanna try out.
kirk Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) Some variations, does more dmg/more meter than above 6C>623B>6C>623C>5B>5C>6C>623C>5A>5C>2C>jD>5B>5C>3C>632146D>632146D>6C>623C 7281dmg. earns 48 meter before super 6C>623B>6C>623C>5B>5C>6C>623C>5A>5C>2C>jD>5B>5C>3C>214C 5369dmg 61 meter Some 6B stuff: 6BCH >6C>623B>6C>623C>5B>5C>6C>623C>5A>5C>2C>623C 5211 dmg 46 meter 6BCH >6C>623B>6C>623C>5B>5C>sj2C>jD>66 j2C>jC> 5B>5C>3C>214C 5079dmg 57 meter Edited March 31, 2011 by kirk
xlolxlolx Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 ^yeah was gonna post that first combo after i found that j.d will still connect, best variation: 6C>623B>6C>623C>5B>5C>6C>623C>5A>5C>2C>j.D>5B>2B>5C>3C>632146D>5C>6C>632146>5C>6C>623C 7380 dmg
kirk Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 How do you get the 5C6C to work without blue after the first super? Can't seem to get a red beat from it. orz
xlolxlolx Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 you sure you get the 5c while the freeze from hiyoku is still active?
xlolxlolx Posted March 31, 2011 Posted March 31, 2011 shud worx :O theres plenty of time before arrow does all its hits
Jourdal Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Some random combos Non CH 2C>Sekkajin>6C>2D>6B>214C = 3080 24 Meter Gain Non CH 2C>Sekkajin>6C>2D>6C>jC j2C>J214C = 3388 31 Meter Gain Forgot to add this even though its basic as shit 6C>DP B>6C>DP C>5A>5C>JD>5B>2B>5C>3C>214D>6C>DP C = 4748 (it builds the 25% of course) Non CH 6A>Rapid>5C>6C>DP B>6C>DP C>5A>5C>2C>DP C = 3128 Edited April 1, 2011 by Jourdal
kirk Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Some random stuff: 5A(normal hit) combos 5A>5B>5C>Sekkajin>2D>66>6B>665B>2B>5C>3C>214C ~ 2560dmg 43meter 5A>5B>5C>Sekkajin>5C>j2C>jC>jD>665B>5C>3C>214C ~ 2468dmg 44meter 5A>5B>5C>Sekkajin>2D>6C>214C ~ 2373dmg 35meter 5A>5B>5C>Sekkajin>5C>j2C>jC>jD>6C>214C ~ 2434dmg 40meter
xlolxlolx Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) hmm so im thinking that some people probably have trouble with 5b pickup in dp loops so heres a short little guide on how to get it to work: 1. you need to delay 623b after 6c to the point where theyre approaching the max height from 6c launch 2. your 6c follow up after delayed 623b needs to be done immediately after you hear the click from sheathing sound, best if you buffer it (2.5 -> makoto only: you need to do 6c>delay 623c because of her weird hitbox, makes 5b pickup a bit less lenient) 3. listen to the click from sheathing sound again and 5b, better if you buffer it and is somewhat mashable but you can get it much more often if you just get the timing down other info: the 7380 dmg combo i posted was done on hazama and the 5C>6C>hiyoku seems to whiff on everyone but him and tager so just 5C>2C>hiyoku or just 5C>hiyoku 6a>rc>6c>623b>6c>623c>5a>5c>2c>j.d>5b>5c>3c>214c = 3422 dmg 36 meter, replace 5a with 5b for 3605 dmg same meter gain 5a>5b>5c>sekka>6c>dc>j.c>j.2c>j.d>5b>5c>3c>214c = 2586 dmg 45 meter Edited April 2, 2011 by xlolxlolx
kirk Posted April 2, 2011 Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) midscreen to corner 6A stuff: 6A>RC>5C>6C>hjC>jD>66j2C>jC>665B>5C>3C>214C ~2825dmg 28meter 6A>RC>5C>6C>hjC>jD>66j2C>jC>665B>3C>623B>214C ~2855dmg 29meter 6A>RC>5C>Sekkajin>6C>jC>j2C>jD>665B>5C>3C>214C ~2748dmg 35meter 6A>RC>5C>Sekkajin>6C>jC>j2C>jD>665B>3C>623B>214C ~2779dmg 35meter 6B stuff: 6B>Sekkajin>6C>5C>hjC>jD>66j2C>jC>665B>5C>3C>623B>214C ~3904dmg 51meter 6B CH>6B>Sekkajin>6C>5C>hjC>jD>66j2C>jC>665B>5C>3C>623B>214C ~4150dmg 54meter 6B CH>6C> 5C> hj2C>jD>66j2C>jC>665B>5C>3C>623B>214C ~3899dmg 47meter 6B CH>6C> 5C> hj2C>jD>66j2C>jC>665B>2B>5C>3C>214C ~3784dmg 43meter Edited April 2, 2011 by kirk
Recommended Posts