FlyingVe Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 The only things I can think of for Ragna is 22C>5A works on Tager, and 5C is fucking boss in this game, in addition to the usual suspects (5B, 6A, ID). Where-as Jin is pretty much the same, just better. Personally I think Tager vs Raga is 5-5, if anything else 4.5-5.5 ragna's favor. Hi Dustloop!
Astaroth136 Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Personally I think Tager vs Raga is 5-5, if anything else 4.5-5.5 ragna's favor. Hi Dustloop! I thought it was 5-5 too. Nothing more, nothing less.
Osmond Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Or perhaps you've figured out better ways to deal with her then the people who made the chart have. I am slowly getting a "mileage may vary" vibe from it.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 15, 2011 Author Posted July 15, 2011 Also, Mu is way better than that chart suggests. This time around Mu feels weaker than CS1 Mu. That's just me though.
FlyingVe Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 She's different, alot of people still try to play her like CS1 Mu, she really can't do offense anymore. As a result, I think she has less really one sided matchups, but over-all is a much better character (just below top tier imo). I could explain in more detail, but this is the Tager forums. Mu also has the problem of not attracting alot of players (like Carl or Rachel), so tech and strats don't come as quickly, nor do tournament victories.
Osmond Posted July 15, 2011 Posted July 15, 2011 Funny thing, I've been wanting to learn Ol' Carl but run into that problem of not knowing where to start with him. But yeah Mu is a very technique driven character, probably why I like her. Won't play her but I have much respect for those who can.
Osuna Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Hmm.. Let me try again. I was saying "Being constantly negative is their choice" is comparable to "Choosing to hit someone over the head with a hammer is their choice". Personally, I feel adversely affected by either action and would prefer not to be, so I would want to argue that it isn't as easy as "it's their choice". Continuous negative interaction can be stressful or lead other people to depression, which is something I personally want to avoid (And I imagine others do too) So normally, I would avoid interacting with a person who is being constantly negative and accept that I won't change their mind; but in this case, most new Tager players come here, and are introduced to this environment where there is both false and negative information. So I guess in the end I can understand what you're saying, because the negativity, given a rational correct context (Like "Hazama is an incredibly difficult matchup for Tager, so many things are stacked in his favor and it's difficult to even know how to win") is honest, and can spur intelligent directions of conversation afterwards. It's really just the false information, which I still believe is brought on by a pessimistic thought process that seems to encompass this board, ultimately leading to ill-thought out statements like "Tager's normals suck" Does that describe my view a little better?Ok, that's where I got confused you see when I said it is "their" choice I was referring to anyone who was negatively impacted by the negativity. lol, That context made it really really different. I was taking about responsibility not autonomy. People aren't directly harmed by negativity until they make a decision which places the responsibility on them. If someone gets depressed by factual information presented in a negative light that's because they think they should be. If the requirement for them is something totally irrational, then you can't hold anyone responsible for triggering it. I for one would rather be depressed than lied to. I've seen tons of inaccurate information about how good Tager is and other forms of irrational optimism, so I don't particularly feel that the problem is really be linked to negativity beyond speculation that it wouldn't be the same or worse if the mood was positive. I would also go as far as to say that you cannot be completely honest about Tager without more negativity than any other character. So if you Do eliminate the negativity there will still be false information and less factual information, or at least less honest information. So I propose rather than throwing out possible good things and leaving some bad things by focusing on negativity, we focus on quality of information. I think that tier list looks familiar, is it that one that got linked to in a google docs spread sheet forever ago?
C0R Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 She's different, alot of people still try to play her like CS1 Mu, she really can't do offense anymore. As a result, I think she has less really one sided matchups, but over-all is a much better character (just below top tier imo). I could explain in more detail, but this is the Tager forums. Mu also has the problem of not attracting alot of players (like Carl or Rachel), so tech and strats don't come as quickly, nor do tournament victories. Mu is as good as Rachel design and balance wise, but with nowhere near the high level playerbase to build her metagame, kind of like how Millia was bad until that one guy showed everyone what's up every few tournament's.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I tried to play Noel, but lost interest very quickly. Why did that happen?
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 But she is the second best character in the game dude. Sigh...In other news that match up chart is weird. It seems when you have someone like Akira in Japan, he will make everyone else think twice about vs. Tager. I see lots of 6-4s, one 5.5-4.5( take that noel mains!), and 4.5-5.5 rounds out the rest. I think Akira along with assists from other JPN Tagers are causing some mayhem over their Japan.
FlyingVe Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I didn't say Noel was weak, I said she sucks. Whenever I play Noel (in any of the games) it always feels like the character is playing itself, more-so than me playing the character. Also, no way in hell is she the second best in the game. I'm not even convinced shes top tier.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Well, when you have good placing in tourneys, stupid dmg in the corner and from midscreen. Let's not forget those awesome resets too. The only reason I wanted to play to Noel because she was hot. And her voice actor is hot too.
FlyingVe Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Yeah, all that is true, I just don't think she's in the same league as Makoto, Jin, Hazama, or Tao.
Osmond Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Well, Makoto is in a league all her own, so you can't compare her with the others... the only real reason why Noel is higher then Jin and Hazama is because she is so easy play
TheGreatReptar Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 And then it is recalled that tier lists do not take character difficulty into consideration.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 16, 2011 Author Posted July 16, 2011 Well, Makoto is in a league all her own, so you can't compare her with the others... the only real reason why Noel is higher then Jin and Hazama is because she is so easy play She is not higher than Jin and Hazama. Noel has some flaws like she doesn't have real blockstrings...just staggers. Well some of them are blockstrings but they are not good. Her air to ground is shit, and her normal's are still not that good. Easy to play? Well if you were trying to do simple simple stuff your damage probably won't be stupid without a standing hit off a drive starter. Noel actually has hard to do combos that are optimal and give her so much meter. Also her mix up is kinda bad....except for J.4D...which after getting hit by that a few times, Lunakage can barely hit me with it.
Osmond Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) I must have been looking at a different list then, pardon me. I can't deny her ground to air and mix up game aren't greatest... But I wasn't just talking about the optimal combos, more like her overall efficiency but...I am not sure about Jin but I think a good Hazama could out probably damage her with more practical start up methods, so I admit. It wouldn't make sense for her to be above him but on the list I saw he was he was fourth after Makoto, Noel and Jin...though I never thought Jin was better then him Which was why I went for the effectiveness through intuitiveness angle, because all more straight forward to learn compared to him. which list should I refer to? Edited July 16, 2011 by Osmond
FlyingVe Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Just for kicks, here is the AXIS list from JBBS broken down into tiers: S:Makoto, Hazma A:Tao, Jin, Carl, Valk A-:Noel B:Rachel, Litchi, Lambda, Ragna, Tsubaki C:Mu, Hakumen, Platinum, Bang, Arakune T: Tager
Osmond Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Certainly different from all the Japanese ones... but I always thought Makoto was O tier
FlyingVe Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 That's not official, I just tiered the characters based on AXIS mattchup chart.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Man I did some combos on Rachel only and i'm confuse about how I finish 360 B, 5C.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 That's not official, I just tiered the characters based on AXIS mattchup chart. Actually Makoto is the only S tier on the chart.
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