A.X.I.S. Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 And that why Axis is the best? Do the science twirl. I'm the best simply because I am. I picked Tager once on netplay...I had a smashing time.
Dacidbro Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 You don't have to play gimmicky with the new Tager.. and 3C RC walk is mix up, that's not a gimmick at all. It's actually extremely powerful if harnessed correctly. When I watch Akira, it's just SOLID play. Another reason I think people vastly underestimate CS2 Tager. Akira doesn't look like he struggles in most matchups, or even that there's a disadvantage. Someone just said all of his matchups are 45 or worse, that's ridiculous. Osuna; I guess it's hard to say "don't ever be negative", but that's not what I'm trying to say either. You're of course extremely articulate, but I think you understand what I'm saying, with the example of "being honest about a problem" compared to "constant negative venues of thought"; Tager players mostly lean towards the second, which is not only not useful but also destructive to other players and their respective scenes. You can say "It's their choice", but I don't agree with that when the way they interact with the community is capable of dragging it down, similar to saying "It was their choice to assassinate Martin Luther King Junior" (Obvious hyperbole, but you get what I mean)
Manta Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Someone just said all of his matchups are 45 or worse, that's ridiculous. I actually said that I wouldn't mind if they all were, the consistency of no bad matchups would be nice.
Dacidbro Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Oh. skim fail On the bright side, it seems like he has a positive match against Noel, evenish with 2 (I think) and then 2/3 45s and 1/3 4s for the rest
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 We should call the problem sloverz to help us get Tager buff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrxlJN-3pEU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dHyB1kRDNc
FlyingVe Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Tager can absolutely play a solid game to success in CS2, but there still a few matchups where he straight up doesn't have the tools to do much. Also, another character, played equally solidly, is just better than Tager right now, even if not by a large margin, hence all the 4.5 matchups. If Tager is + against Noel, it can't be by more than a .5 margin IMO.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 We should call the problem sloverz to help us get Tager buff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrxlJN-3pEU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dHyB1kRDNc ROFL What the heck is this man!? I am not even high and I am laughing at something on cartoon network. I am going mad. What Ve said. Most the time I win by playing solid.
Dacidbro Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Of course. Tager is almost always slightly disadvantaged. But not nearly as much as people tend to believe ^_^
FlyingVe Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 At least not this time around. Eventually, you'll run into someone playing Hazama, Mu, Tao, or Arakune, and you'll want to shoot yourself.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 ROFL What the heck is this man!? I am not even high and I am laughing at something on cartoon network. I am going mad. What Ve said. Most the time I win by playing solid. It's an awful show Axis. You should watch Regular Show. I was just making a joke with that show. It's fucking dogshit.
Osmond Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) It's an awful show Axis. You should watch Regular Show. I was just making a joke with that show. It's fucking dogshit. That was crazier then the Reg show, and that's why I liked it Edited July 8, 2011 by Osmond
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 So you like problem sloverz over Regular Show. Even though Reg show has gotten better reviews than it?
Osuna Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) You don't have to play gimmicky with the new Tager.. and 3C RC walk is mix up, that's not a gimmick at all. It's actually extremely powerful if harnessed correctly. When I watch Akira, it's just SOLID play. Another reason I think people vastly underestimate CS2 Tager. Akira doesn't look like he struggles in most matchups, or even that there's a disadvantage. Someone just said all of his matchups are 45 or worse, that's ridiculous. Osuna; I guess it's hard to say "don't ever be negative", but that's not what I'm trying to say either. You're of course extremely articulate, but I think you understand what I'm saying, with the example of "being honest about a problem" compared to "constant negative venues of thought"; Tager players mostly lean towards the second, which is not only not useful but also destructive to other players and their respective scenes. You can say "It's their choice", but I don't agree with that when the way they interact with the community is capable of dragging it down, similar to saying "It was their choice to assassinate Martin Luther King Junior" (Obvious hyperbole, but you get what I mean)Actually I don't think I get what you mean in that MLK analogy. It IS their choice to shoot martin luther king, or are you saying it was the fault of Everyone Else who didn't like him? Are you saying it wasn't really that man's fault that he murdered someone? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the choice in analogy accidentally could go too many ways. I don't think you mean to say it is the fault of the 8 Alabama clergymen that Martin Luther King was shot because of their disapproval of his protests. You speak in broad terms, of how a community might be dragged down. How? How might this happen if not through individuals doing what they think they should do? If the deciding factor is the prevailing mood, then that's what it is. I would certainly argue with anyone who gave bad reasons or had inaccurate information. I say If depressed people are saying inaccurate things, correct them. We're here to share information If happy people are saying inaccurate things, correct them. We're here to share information. We should definitely strive for accurate information, but one could understand Tager's position entirely and still drop him or be upset about it. The situation you articulate, where sad people say sad and inaccurate things has a way bigger problem than the one you take exception to. I would go as far as to say there is only one problem. Edited July 8, 2011 by Osuna
Dacidbro Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Hmm.. Let me try again. I was saying "Being constantly negative is their choice" is comparable to "Choosing to hit someone over the head with a hammer is their choice". Personally, I feel adversely affected by either action and would prefer not to be, so I would want to argue that it isn't as easy as "it's their choice". Continuous negative interaction can be stressful or lead other people to depression, which is something I personally want to avoid (And I imagine others do too) So normally, I would avoid interacting with a person who is being constantly negative and accept that I won't change their mind; but in this case, most new Tager players come here, and are introduced to this environment where there is both false and negative information. So I guess in the end I can understand what you're saying, because the negativity, given a rational correct context (Like "Hazama is an incredibly difficult matchup for Tager, so many things are stacked in his favor and it's difficult to even know how to win") is honest, and can spur intelligent directions of conversation afterwards. It's really just the false information, which I still believe is brought on by a pessimistic thought process that seems to encompass this board, ultimately leading to ill-thought out statements like "Tager's normals suck" Does that describe my view a little better?
Osmond Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Oh no...from what I'm gathering now, this entire argument basically stemmed because I said something stupid. I really screwed up this time, shooting my mouth off like that. I can't believe I didn't clue in sooner. I'm sorry guys.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 8, 2011 Author Posted July 8, 2011 Hmm.. Let me try again. I was saying "Being constantly negative is their choice" is comparable to "Choosing to hit someone over the head with a hammer is their choice". Personally, I feel adversely affected by either action and would prefer not to be, so I would want to argue that it isn't as easy as "it's their choice". Continuous negative interaction can be stressful or lead other people to depression, which is something I personally want to avoid (And I imagine others do too) So normally, I would avoid interacting with a person who is being constantly negative and accept that I won't change their mind; but in this case, most new Tager players come here, and are introduced to this environment where there is both false and negative information. So I guess in the end I can understand what you're saying, because the negativity, given a rational correct context (Like "Hazama is an incredibly difficult matchup for Tager, so many things are stacked in his favor and it's difficult to even know how to win") is honest, and can spur intelligent directions of conversation afterwards. It's really just the false information, which I still believe is brought on by a pessimistic thought process that seems to encompass this board, ultimately leading to ill-thought out statements like "Tager's normals suck" Does that describe my view a little better? Yeah this happens when you main a character that gets bodied by more than half the cast. I prefer some of the negativity but not all of it, We are the Tager main's we are like old man who can't get laid. Complain complain complain. I will bring a bit more positivity here just to brighten up the boards. Although lately I have been slacking on my mod position IMO, I guess I'm back to answer questions or whatevers.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Yeah this happens when you main a character that gets bodied by more than half the cast. I prefer some of the negativity but not all of it, We are the Tager main's we are like old man who can't get laid. Complain complain complain. I will bring a bit more positivity here just to brighten up the boards. Although lately I have been slacking on my mod position IMO, I guess I'm back to answer questions or whatevers. You're doing a fine job math problem. Also, we're not old man that can't get laid. That's Lichti, Makoto, and Rachel mains. Edited July 8, 2011 by CrazyI-nomitsu
A.X.I.S. Posted July 8, 2011 Author Posted July 8, 2011 You're doing a fine job math problem. Also, we're not old man that can't get laid. That's Lichti, Makoto, and Rachel mains. I was taking a shot at middle aged single men but that's cool. Oh and because I love stirring up trouble. ...|Rag||Jin||Noe||Tag||Tao||Rac||Ara||Lit||Car||Ban||Hak||Lam||Tsu||Haz||Mu.||Mak||Val||Pla| Mak|5.5||5.5||5.5||5.5||5.5||5.5||5.5||6.0||5.0||6.0||6.0||5.0||5.5||5.0||5.5||-.-||5.5||6.0|( +9.0) Haz|5.0||5.0||5.0||6.0||5.0||6.0||6.0||5.5||4.5||5.5||6.0||6.0||6.0||-.-||5.5||5.0||4.5||6.0|( +7.5) Tao|5.5||4.5||5.0||6.0||-.-||4.5||6.0||5.5||5.0||6.0||5.5||6.0||5.5||5.0||6.0||4.5||5.0||5.5|( +6.0) Jin|5.5||-.-||4.5||5.5||5.5||5.0||5.5||5.5||5.5||6.0||5.5||5.5||5.0||5.0||5.5||4.5||5.5||5.5|( +5.5) Car|5.5||4.5||5.0||6.0||5.0||5.5||5.0||5.5||-.-||6.0||5.0||6.0||5.0||5.5||4.5||5.0||5.0||5.5|( +4.5) Val|4.5||4.5||5.0||6.0||5.0||5.0||5.5||5.0||5.0||5.5||5.5||5.5||5.5||5.5||6.0||4.5||-.-||5.5|( +4.0) Noe|6.0||5.5||-.-||4.5||5.0||5.5||4.5||5.0||5.0||5.5||5.0||5.5||5.0||5.0||5.5||4.5||5.0||5.5|( +2.5) Rac|5.5||5.0||4.5||6.0||5.5||-.-||6.0||5.0||4.5||5.5||5.0||4.5||4.5||4.0||5.0||4.5||5.0||5.5|( +0.5) Lit|5.0||4.5||5.0||6.0||4.5||5.0||5.5||-.-||4.5||5.0||5.0||5.5||5.0||4.5||5.5||4.0||5.0||5.5|( 0.0) Lam|5.5||4.5||4.5||6.0||4.0||5.5||6.0||4.5||4.0||4.5||5.5||-.-||5.5||4.0||6.0||5.0||4.5||5.5|( 0.0) Rag|-.-||4.5||4.0||6.0||4.5||4.5||5.0||5.0||4.5||5.5||5.5||4.5||5.5||5.0||5.0||4.5||5.5||5.5|( -0.5) Tsu|4.5||5.0||5.0||5.5||4.5||5.5||5.5||5.0||5.0||5.5||5.5||4.5||-.-||4.0||5.5||4.5||4.5||5.0|( -0.5) Mu.|5.0||4.5||4.5||6.0||4.0||5.0||6.0||4.5||5.5||4.5||5.0||4.0||4.5||4.5||-.-||4.5||4.0||5.0|( -4.0) Hak|4.5||4.5||5.0||5.5||4.5||5.0||5.5||5.0||5.0||5.0||-.-||4.5||4.5||4.0||5.0||4.0||4.5||4.5|( -4.5) Pla|4.5||4.5||4.5||6.0||4.5||4.5||5.0||4.5||4.5||5.5||5.5||4.5||5.0||4.0||5.0||4.0||4.5||-.-|( -4.5) Ban|4.5||4.0||4.5||5.5||4.0||4.5||5.0||5.0||4.0||-.-||5.0||5.5||4.5||4.5||5.5||4.0||4.5||4.5|( -6.0) Ara|5.0||4.5||5.5||6.0||4.0||4.0||-.-||4.5||5.0||5.0||4.5||4.0||4.5||4.0||4.0||4.5||4.5||5.0|( -6.5) Tag|4.0||4.5||5.5||-.-||4.0||4.0||4.0||4.0||4.0||4.5||4.5||4.0||4.5||4.0||4.0||4.5||4.0||4.0|(-13.0)
Osmond Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Oh, looks like I was wrong about Ragna being a nuetral match up. I was under the impression that his pressure wasn't totally safe against Tager
mAc Chaos Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Seems kind of strange that Ragna would be a worse matchup for Tager than Jin.
Dacidbro Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Yes, Mac. That is -really- curious. O_o I didn't even notice that.
Fafy Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 Yeah, I am curious as to where AXIS would get something I've been wanting since CS2 release o.O
FlyingVe Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 It could be because Jin actually loses some tools against Tager, and Ragna doesn't? Also, Ragna has good, easy, Tager specific combos. Not saying I agree, just trying to rationalize it.
A.X.I.S. Posted July 15, 2011 Author Posted July 15, 2011 I got that list from BBG which came from the JBBS. Yeah I thought the match up was neutral in general. I guess I am too good at blocking Ragna? Jin vs Tager is understandable, the match up didn't change from CS1, Jin still does the same stuff and still dies from it anyway. Also I am back...so is freaking dustloop.
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