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[skd]

star you are bad and should feel bad

[Klein]

I am officially done with college. No more exams or lame assignments. Once WKU sends that sweet paper, it's time to kick this bad economy's ass!

Rock on man!

[Papstr]

I dunno who that guy is (obviously hes not lunaris, if his name is an indicator) but god is he funny. Also Lumin's one comment is so sig worthy.

[Milln]

Rock some fuggin' faces off in KoF please.

@GuiltyGear: The only thing I need to say is listen to Tad.

Listen

To

Tad.

He says meet up. You meet up. He says stop doing unsafe crap, you stop doing unsafe crap. He says waste all your meter on 2D RC 2D RC Wild Throw, you WASTE THAT METER.

@Astaroth: YOU ARE FREE AND CLEAR TO PARTY until you get your career going. You are thirty ballers, man. Thirty of them.

@Lumin: Come over my house and play KOF with me.

@Jackie: Brilliant 5B picture. I'm going to need a gif of Ragna football throwing a shark, next.

[LastStarSaviour]

Star, I love you like a bro. So I say this with love.

You are wrong. I'm tired and need to hit the hay, so I'm gonna make this all short.

5D and 6D are shit as reversals. They do not have the invuln to be useful in that sense. If you try to use them like reversals, you deserve to get hit. Of course a lot of his normals beat them.

5A, 5B, 5C, and 2C do not beat drives clean. They will beat drives in very specific situations, usually as a result of a mistake or accident on Ragna or Noel's part. Why is that? Because 2D's high profiling and 4D's frame 1 to 19 invuln beat them in just about every other situation.

2C > 6D is not a frame trap. Ragna has no way to frame trap 6D. It's 26 frames of start up. 2C gives 16 frames of blockstun. That's 10 frames to stop Ragna. Frame traps at most are 4 frame gaps. The safest he can do as far as chaining goes is go into it off of 5C/6C, and that still gives you 8 frames to do something to him. It's a risk for him to take. Also, in pressure, it loses to 4D.

*My mistake, I think that was a typo on your part. 6C only going off of 2C on block is a problem because that's just easy to see coming. 6C will never surprise you. And 2C > 6C has two simple solutions. Just let him end pressure with it, because that is all he can safely do with it, or instant block > poke.

5D is a horrible pressure tool. Good for beating drive, but horrible in general. That's just a fact.

3C is great. But inevitably sends Ragna back to neutral, where he is definitely strong, but gets the least amount of reward.

Ragna never pressures for free, never approaches for free, and never gets hits for free. Not against Noel, not against any character, not even against himself. If it feels like he is, then you're doing something wrong or simply getting out played.

I did have an earlier comment for this, but this is getting too good for me to sleep anymore. So let's hit on some points you mentioned:

First off, I don't recall saying that you can frame-trap 2C with 6D. If I have said something that sounded like that then I probably meant to say that it is very easy to bait a drive using this gatling (Which we are trying to do in this instance). Second, I don't recall ever saying that 2D or 5D were good reversal (never in any of my posts did I say this). Also, you claim that 5A, 5B, 5C, or 2C can't legitimately beat drives clean. I don't know how you came to this conclusion but you might want to go to the lab and check this. Also, you say that this only happens on special occasions in which Ragna or Noel made a mistake. The fact of the matter is, is that the only special occasion that this happens in is if you are purposely trying to bait a drive. In which case it isn't a mistake but a wrong quess (which isn't really much of a mistake to be honest). You say that 5D is a horrible pressure tool (and while I do disagree with that) you did also say that it's good for BAITING AND CATCHING drives. Is that not what we're creating these scenarios off of? Specifically trying to bait and catch drives? Which brings up the question of why the general examples you gave for Ragna's normals being bad matter? If you're trying to bait something it's because you know someone's going to use it. Noel's drives aren't adequate enough to be thrown out at random against legitimate pressure so you're intentionally waiting and delaying your moves or using specific moves which gatling into each other in order to catch the move. Also, why does 3C sending someone to neutral with less reward matter? He gets plenty of reward off of his bullshit and the fact of the matter is at that point he can let the Noel player try and find her way in, which is somewhat difficult against Ragna. Why would a problem arise from putting him in a position where he is strong and possibly stronger than his opponent? That doesn't make sense.

You say that I should just let him finish his pressure with 2C>6C. HE JUST PRESSURED ME! Wasn't this whole conversation about how he couldn't pressure Noel? Again, I understand that IB into a poke is effective. It's a thousand times more effective than using a DRIVE which would have gotten punished. But you know, it's not like we're having a conversation on BAITING DRIVES!

Also Luminaris or whatever your name is, if you don't have anything factual to add to the discussion i'm going to have to ask you to be quiet. You're more likely to catch my attention with a "you're bad" statement if you give a reason why. I'm not going to acknowledge you otherwise.

Edited April 18, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[LuminAbyss]

@Lumin: Come over my house and play KOF with me.

Do you have GGPO, and if you do, let us play old school KoF too.

[Jackie Chandler]

First off, I don't recall saying that you can frame-trap 2C with 6D. If I have said something that sounded like that then I probably meant to say that it is very easy to bait a drive using this gatling (Which we are trying to do in this instance).

However, when it comes to 6D being gatlinged off of 2C I don't see what the problem is due to the fact that it can be used in a frame-trap of Ragna's and can stuff some drives.

Second, I don't recall ever saying that 2D or 5D were good reversal (never in any of my posts did I say this).

Ragna's 5D is a godlike tool for pressure seeing as you can do a pressure string in which you are so far away from Noel you can reset neutral by throwing out a dead spike that she can't punish.

Seeing as the idea behind most reversals are to reset the neutral game, I think that was what Lumin was basing his case on- he wasn't saying 5D/2D had invulnerability to beat things out.

Also, you claim that 5A, 5B, 5C, or 2C can't legitimately beat drives clean. I don't know how you came to this conclusion but you might want to go to the lab and check this. Also, you say that this only happens on special occasions in which Ragna or Noel made a mistake. The fact of the matter is, is that the only special occasion that this happens in is if you are purposely trying to bait a drive.

Those moves can't reliably beat drives clean- that's what matters. Some work when Noel mistimes something horrendous, and some don't work when Ragna mistimes something horrendous. And no, it doesn't "only happen when [Ragna] is purposely trying to bait a drive."

In which case it isn't a mistake but a wrong quess (which isn't really much of a mistake to be honest).

Tager says hi.

You say that 5D is a horrible pressure tool (and while I do disagree with that) you did also say that it's good for BAITING AND CATCHING drives. Is that not what we're creating these scenarios off of? Specifically trying to bait and catch drives? Which brings up the question of why the general examples you gave for Ragna's normals being bad matter? If you're trying to bait something it's because you know someone's going to use it.

No, when you're trying to bait something it's because you THINK and HOPE someone's going to use it. When a Ragna uses 5D outside of a combo AT ALL, it's likely because he's expecting a 2D. No other situation is worth randomly throwing it out, since it's -24 on block and you can Counter Assault through the first hit and fuck him up. This is a scenario of risk vs. reward, in which the reward doesn't outweigh the risk in the least.

Noel's drives aren't adequate enough to be thrown out at random against legitimate pressure so you're intentionally waiting and delaying your moves or using specific moves which gatling into each other in order to catch the move.

You make it sound like it's this guaranteed thing. There are no blockstrings that set up frame traps against Noel's drives that aren't punishable. That's why Noel's drives ARE adequate enough- because there is no true "legitimate pressure" against them that can catch them for free without some sort of risk.

Also, why does 3C sending someone to neutral with less reward matter? He gets plenty of reward off of his bullshit and the fact of the matter is at that point he can let the Noel player try and find her way in, which is somewhat difficult against Ragna. Why would a problem arise from putting him in a position where he is strong and possibly stronger than his opponent? That doesn't make sense.

Because he's not guaranteed to be stronger than his opponent. Lumin already said that 2D high profiles over a lot of Ragna's normals, and I've said that 4D anti-air shuts down a lot of aerial approaches. It's just as difficult, if not more so, for Ragna to find his way into Noel as it is for her to him. At least she has projectiles.

You say that I should just let him finish his pressure with 2C>6C. HE JUST PRESSURED ME! Wasn't this whole conversation about how he couldn't pressure Noel? Again, I understand that IB into a poke is effective. It's a thousand times more effective than using a DRIVE which would have gotten punished. But you know, it's not like we're having a conversation on BAITING DRIVES!

Star, I KNOW you know Ragna can't get away with 2C -> 6C. You consistently punish me when I do that with 2D, which goes right over the first hit of 6C. Lumin even said you have 8 frames to do whatever you want between the two moves. It's not that Ragna can't punish Noel- it's that he has difficulty punishing her without a significant risk. That's really what this whole conversation boils down to.

Also Luminaris or whatever your name is, if you don't have anything factual to add to the discussion i'm going to have to ask you to be quiet. You're more likely to catch my attention with a "you're bad" statement if you give a reason why. I'm not going to acknowledge you otherwise.

While I agree, you just acknowledged him.

[LuminAbyss]

Jackie mah nigga

[Jackie Chandler]

Lumin mah hermano

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

ragna sucks everyone should play carl /thread

[LuminAbyss]

Lumin mah hermano

me gusta

[Vocal Sabre]

That moment when I come back and people are fighting about Ragna...again. I think this happens every 20 pages.

[LuminAbyss]

We would never have any fun otherwise.

[Milln]

ragna sucks everyone should play carl /thread

Im okay with this.

@Lumin I do not have GGPO, unfortunately. I can probably acquire it, though. I'll have to, uh... Work it into my schedule... I need a secretary..

EY hey hey edit edit just found some quoted funny things we said at Final Round in my phone:

AND COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT

"Meat bump!

Godammit, beans on my dick

They would not take the balls away. That's what I had to deal with all Saturday.

Aw man, gotta go home and microwave a slim Jim...

Edited April 18, 2012 by Milln

[LuminAbyss]

>Get GGPO

>Play GAMES.

[Sechel]

Inferno Divider! x 9,001, lololololol

[LastStarSaviour]

ARGUMENT COMEBACK FACTOR IN 10 HOURS! (Lucky I got school)

Stay free, Ragna players.

[LuminAbyss]

Nigga we too busy with KoF. gtfo

[Jackie Chandler]

Shadow Labrys revealed for P4U. Seems legit. Has a pretty fuckin' creepy Instant Kill.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

I like how her gargantuan rapist-persona is vulnerable at all times.

[LastStarSaviour]

Nigga we too busy with KoF. gtfo

NO LUMIN! Don't do this to me. You aren't like the rest of them. You're capable of arguing with me, capable of giving factual and logical feed-back. Don't group yourself with the rest of "them" you're better than that and I know it. In your heart you'd never turn down a thesis. You are one who wishes to have knowledge and be able to use it as a force. Don't ever forsake yourself with a bullshit response like this again.

You will hear this battlecry and you will see this fight through, even if it costs your life. Because you're that kind of person...

[Klein]

ARGUMENT COMEBACK FACTOR IN 10 HOURS! (Lucky I got school)

Stay free, Ragna players.

NO LUMIN! Don't do this to me. You aren't like the rest of them. You're capable of arguing with me, capable of giving factual and logical feed-back. Don't group yourself with the rest of "them" you're better than that and I know it. In your heart you'd never turn down a thesis. You are one who wishes to have knowledge and be able to use it as a force. Don't ever forsake yourself with a bullshit response like this again.

You will hear this battlecry and you will see this fight through, even if it costs your life. Because you're that kind of person...

Wut.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

<_< xDDDDDDDD >_>

Edited April 19, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[LastStarSaviour]

It begins NOW!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oMyHfhddrys

Okay, here's a big point i've been stressing in this argument. Okay, now during this video you'll notice that I had Ragna set to use a blockstring of 2A>5B>2C>5C>5D. Now let's look at it (it's really hard to see. Sorry about my crappy camera). When Ragna used the blockstring without me instant blocking any of it, Noel was not at a position to punish him (therefore making his pressure safe and he successfully baited all of my drives, thus re-iterating that Ragna's 5D is indeed a safe tool). Now, I know what you're saying, "well, he didn't instant block it so it doesn't count. INCORRECT! If you keep watching you'll see that later on in the video that I did instant block all of Ragna's pressure ending in 5D. The results being that the only way I could punish him is a 5B as soon as 5D was finished (the combo nets 4.5k plus full corner carry. Something I found to be acceptable). Now, at this point you're saying, you pretty much made our point for us, and it may very well seem that way, but keep watching.

Again, I block the Ragna pressure (Both normal and Instant blocking again). Now in this situation Ragna threw in a Gauntlet Hades for the lawls of it, do you know what happened? My 5B got blown up (The only answer to this block-string she has). Yeah, maybe it was a simple guessing game of Ragna's that got rewarded, but the fact of the matter is, it's completely in his favor. I was in a position that the only way I could punish him was to instant block everything after the 2A (if you don't instant block the last hit of 5D his pushback will knock him too far away. You have to instant block it all) and then IMMEDIATELY press 5B. Ragna had all the time in the world to see whether I was going to go for a 5B, drive, etc...

If I had waited to see if he was going to throw out the Gauntlet Hades I would've missed my only window of punishment and he would've been able to safely return to neutral. Sure I could've mashed 4D after 5D (even though you had time to bait and punish it accordingly)(and maybe I would've caught your Gauntlet Hades. In which case I wouldn't have gotten much off of the anti-air 4D except Oki). The point i'm trying to make is that on offense, Ragna has no worried. It's Noel who's scared shitless when this dude has her blocking.

Lumin, you're my bro and this is the reason that we have fight (I do appreciate your analytical mind and ability to come up with reasonable arguments. You're much better at it than I am and it's the second reason I have to do this. To improve my debating skills). Jackie, you're well...Jackie

Now in closing, GET AT ME!!!!

Edited April 19, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[LuminAbyss]

I don't have anything more to add to our previous conversation is all. I said all I needed to.

No but seriously, anyone with GGPO, let us talk KoF. I want to seriously get better at this series, and I thought it might be better to build my fundamentals and get used to the older ones before I try tackling XIII competitively again.

Jackie, I replied to your PM btw.