CS2 Bang vs Hazama

[DaiAndOh]

Discuss this matchup here!

[Zevali]

I played against Justice's Hazama for a few hours IRL and this is what I noticed. I'm not very good at the game, so correct me if I'm wrong:

Neutral:

At neutral, Hazama has the advantage. Since his chains got faster from CS1, it's even harder and more annoying to approach him. The combos he can get from his chain hits are not that impressive (low 2k at most), but it's still something that you don't want to happen. Try to use Bang's great mobility. I personally like to high jump, double jump, then air dash. Or just about anything, really. Bang's only second to Tao on mobility, so even Hazama's chains can't contain Bang forever. Just don't be too predictable with your approaches.

Be aware of his 214D~B, it's a great anti-air that will beat any of Bang's air-to-ground options and is perfectly safe on block unless you somehow end up behind Hazama when you block it.

Although approaching him from the ground seems pointless, it's more effective than it seems. Dash and jump over Hazama's 5D, and immediately put him in a pressure string before he can do anything.

Air-to-air:

Hazama's j.B can beat Bang's j.B easily unless you space it correctly. His leg is freakishly long, so don't throw j.B's randomly for air-to-air. j.A works surprisingly well in comparison though, but only if spaced well. Mashing j.A to keep him in blockstun is also not a bad idea as he really has no answers to that. You can land and continue with 5A, 5B, and move onto more standard pressure from there.

Pressuring:

Don't even bother trying to go for a 2B -> D nail reset when Hazama has 50 heat. He can instant block 2B and just Houtenjin you for 4k damage. For pressure, I found it useful to end most of my strings with 5B and either dashing in for another 5A, or IAD over him and hit him with a j.4B, or IAD and IAD back to original position and poking with j.B. Or simply jump cancel the 2B and try to bait his anti-air or Houtenjin when he has 50 heat.

Did Houtenjin's recovery frames got reduced? I tried to punish a whiffed Houtenjin with a dashing 5B and got hit by another Houtenjin. Or is it because 5B became slower?

Defense:

Hazama's new 5B -> 6B OR 5B -> 6A gatlings confused me so much. If you can predict that they're going to either 6B or 6A, you can throw out a 5A and score a small combo. But 5B is a great frame trap, so don't do it unless you're absolutely sure he's going to do one of those two. The start-up animations for both 6A and 6B are somewhat similar, but if you pay close attention, you'll be able to tell the two apart eventually. I wouldn't worry too much about getting hit by his 236C since it does even less than 1k damage when he has no heat, but be aware that he gets 5 heat from just getting you with that command grab. Whenever you notice a delay in his string, be prepared to jump out.

When he enters 214D, always block low and try to reaction-block the overhead. His 214D~C can easily lead into 3k-4k so it's important to not get hit by it. His CH 3C can lead to 5k meterless (well, he gets enough meter during the combo) combos, so that's another move to watch out for.

Whenever he ends his pressure strings with 236D and you IB it, DON'T RUN IN AND TRY TO PUNISH IT WITH 5A! Every time I did that, I just got hit by his 214D~B and ate a combo. Maybe I'm not fast enough, but with the IB nerf, I think it works as a frame trap.

I don't know if any of this is helpful, but this is what I've learned from playing 5+ hours against his Hazama.

Overall, I think it's a pretty challenging match-up. IMO, hardest part about this match-up is at neutral and getting close to him.

Question: Is using FRKZ against him a viable option? With the backdash nerf, I found it hard to bait his reversals or... do anything, really. The only reason I can see FRKZ being useful is for increased mid-screen damage.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Zevali

[huey253]

I played against Justice's Hazama for a few hours IRL and this is what I noticed. I'm not very good at the game, so correct me if I'm wrong:

Neutral:

At neutral, Hazama has the advantage. Since his chains got faster from CS1, it's even harder and more annoying to approach him. The combos he can get from his chain hits are not that impressive (low 2k at most), but it's still something that you don't want to happen. Try to use Bang's great mobility. I personally like to high jump, double jump, then air dash. Or just about anything, really. Bang's only second to Tao on mobility, so even Hazama's chains can't contain Bang forever. Just don't be too predictable with your approaches.

Be aware of his 214D~B, it's a great anti-air that will beat any of Bang's air-to-ground options and is perfectly safe on block unless you somehow end up behind Hazama when you block it.

Although approaching him from the ground seems pointless, it's more effective than it seems. Dash and jump over Hazama's 5D, and immediately put him in a pressure string before he can do anything.

Air-to-air:

Hazama's j.B can beat Bang's j.B easily unless you space it correctly. His leg is freakishly long, so don't throw j.B's randomly for air-to-air. j.A works surprisingly well in comparison though, but only if spaced well. Mashing j.A to keep him in blockstun is also not a bad idea as he really has no answers to that. You can land and continue with 5A, 5B, and move onto more standard pressure from there.

Pressuring:

Don't even bother trying to go for a 2B -> D nail reset when Hazama has 50 heat. He can instant block 2B and just Houtenjin you for 4k damage. For pressure, I found it useful to end most of my strings with 5B and either dashing in for another 5A, or IAD over him and hit him with a j.4B, or IAD and IAD back to original position and poking with j.B. Or simply jump cancel the 2B and try to bait his anti-air or Houtenjin when he has 50 heat.

Did Houtenjin's recovery frames got reduced? I tried to punish a whiffed Houtenjin with a dashing 5B and got hit by another Houtenjin. Or is it because 5B became slower?

Defense:

Hazama's new 5B -> 6B OR 5B -> 6A gatlings confused me so much. If you can predict that they're going to either 6B or 6A, you can throw out a 5A and score a small combo. But 5B is a great frame trap, so don't do it unless you're absolutely sure he's going to do one of those two. The start-up animations for both 6A and 6B are somewhat similar, but if you pay close attention, you'll be able to tell the two apart eventually. I wouldn't worry too much about getting hit by his 236C since it does even less than 1k damage when he has no heat, but be aware that he gets 5 heat from just getting you with that command grab. Whenever you notice a delay in his string, be prepared to jump out.

When he enters 214D, always block low and try to reaction-block the overhead. His 214D~C can easily lead into 3k-4k so it's important to not get hit by it. His CH 3C can lead to 5k meterless (well, he gets enough meter during the combo) combos, so that's another move to watch out for.

Whenever he ends his pressure strings with 236D and you IB it, DON'T RUN IN AND TRY TO PUNISH IT WITH 5A! Every time I did that, I just got hit by his 214D~B and ate a combo. Maybe I'm not fast enough, but with the IB nerf, I think it works as a frame trap.

I don't know if any of this is helpful, but this is what I've learned from playing 5+ hours against his Hazama.

Overall, I think it's a pretty challenging match-up. IMO, hardest part about this match-up is at neutral and getting close to him.

Question: Is using FRKZ against him a viable option? With the backdash nerf, I found it hard to bait his reversals or... do anything, really. The only reason I can see FRKZ being useful is for increased mid-screen damage.

found it useful to end most of my strings with 5B and either dashing in for another 5A

not a good idea in CS2

I tried to punish a whiffed Houtenjin with a dashing 5B and got hit by another Houtenjin. Or is it because 5B became slower?

yes its 2 frames slower

a common place for hazama to also jayoku is after 2B during the dnails (no ib needed i believe)

Every time I did that, I just got hit by his 214D~B and ate a combo. Maybe I'm not fast enough, but with the IB nerf, I think it works as a frame trap.

run in, block it and punish 214D-B

frkz only feels useful for killing people off one mixup or as a reversal on wakeup.

don't just throw it out in neutral anymore

[DaiAndOh]

I played against Zidane.

I need to play against another Hazama just to be sure it's not 7-3 or 8-2 or something. I think it's cause he can actually block pretty well too.

Though didn't help that

A. His everything beat almost my everything in all situations.

B. Getting hit when he has/gets 50 meter means 4-6k and unfavorable situation on wakeup.

C. Doesn't have to respect Dnails that much given the chain can beat all 3.

[huey253]

its a bad matchup for sure.

[Dacidbro]

Feels like it's going to be one of Bang's worst, to me.

[Lord Cruxis]

Feels like it's going to be one of Bang's worst, to me.

Faught a really good Hazama yesterday....I'm agreeing this statement, but I don't want to. :[

[Chazmobile]

Why can't we just have a reliable anti-air or DP arcsys?

[huey253]

i love when people tell me to stop complaining because i have 2D anti air.

then i get sad because i know how well that works

[SlyStrife]

This match up is ass, getting in is hard enough. Staying in is just as hard, he has too many returns for all our stuff now. D:

I usually find myself blowing any meter on him as soon as I get it.

[Justice7541]

I played against Justice's Hazama for a few hours IRL and this is what I noticed. I'm not very good at the game, so correct me if I'm wrong:

Neutral:

At neutral, Hazama has the advantage. Since his chains got faster from CS1, it's even harder and more annoying to approach him. The combos he can get from his chain hits are not that impressive (low 2k at most), but it's still something that you don't want to happen. Try to use Bang's great mobility. I personally like to high jump, double jump, then air dash. Or just about anything, really. Bang's only second to Tao on mobility, so even Hazama's chains can't contain Bang forever. Just don't be too predictable with your approaches.

Be aware of his 214D~B, it's a great anti-air that will beat any of Bang's air-to-ground options and is perfectly safe on block unless you somehow end up behind Hazama when you block it.

Although approaching him from the ground seems pointless, it's more effective than it seems. Dash and jump over Hazama's 5D, and immediately put him in a pressure string before he can do anything.

Air-to-air:

Hazama's j.B can beat Bang's j.B easily unless you space it correctly. His leg is freakishly long, so don't throw j.B's randomly for air-to-air. j.A works surprisingly well in comparison though, but only if spaced well. Mashing j.A to keep him in blockstun is also not a bad idea as he really has no answers to that. You can land and continue with 5A, 5B, and move onto more standard pressure from there.

Pressuring:

Don't even bother trying to go for a 2B -> D nail reset when Hazama has 50 heat. He can instant block 2B and just Houtenjin you for 4k damage. For pressure, I found it useful to end most of my strings with 5B and either dashing in for another 5A, or IAD over him and hit him with a j.4B, or IAD and IAD back to original position and poking with j.B. Or simply jump cancel the 2B and try to bait his anti-air or Houtenjin when he has 50 heat.

Did Houtenjin's recovery frames got reduced? I tried to punish a whiffed Houtenjin with a dashing 5B and got hit by another Houtenjin. Or is it because 5B became slower?

Defense:

Hazama's new 5B -> 6B OR 5B -> 6A gatlings confused me so much. If you can predict that they're going to either 6B or 6A, you can throw out a 5A and score a small combo. But 5B is a great frame trap, so don't do it unless you're absolutely sure he's going to do one of those two. The start-up animations for both 6A and 6B are somewhat similar, but if you pay close attention, you'll be able to tell the two apart eventually. I wouldn't worry too much about getting hit by his 236C since it does even less than 1k damage when he has no heat, but be aware that he gets 5 heat from just getting you with that command grab. Whenever you notice a delay in his string, be prepared to jump out.

When he enters 214D, always block low and try to reaction-block the overhead. His 214D~C can easily lead into 3k-4k so it's important to not get hit by it. His CH 3C can lead to 5k meterless (well, he gets enough meter during the combo) combos, so that's another move to watch out for.

Whenever he ends his pressure strings with 236D and you IB it, DON'T RUN IN AND TRY TO PUNISH IT WITH 5A! Every time I did that, I just got hit by his 214D~B and ate a combo. Maybe I'm not fast enough, but with the IB nerf, I think it works as a frame trap.

I don't know if any of this is helpful, but this is what I've learned from playing 5+ hours against his Hazama.

Overall, I think it's a pretty challenging match-up. IMO, hardest part about this match-up is at neutral and getting close to him.

Question: Is using FRKZ against him a viable option? With the backdash nerf, I found it hard to bait his reversals or... do anything, really. The only reason I can see FRKZ being useful is for increased mid-screen damage.

1) The trick is to get used to dealing with Hazama's angles. If you're below the danger zone for 6D I find it helps to superjump so you're above it and airdash in. You'll be inside 4D's minimum range by the time he can hit you with it and then all you need to worry about is his standard AA. Just don't dash from too close or you'll probably eat flashkick. Trying to actually bait chains isn't the best idea from fullscreen since they recover so fast now, although avoiding a chain on approach is a free punish.

2) 214D~B isn't totally safe on block, but it's pretty hard to punish while in the air since you have to barrier (adds more blockstun) and then he moves away from you. Best thing to do if you think he's going to flashkick is to nailglide in and try to be on the ground when he actually kicks.

3) j.4C is your anti-Hazama air normal since he has nothing that hits you at that angle. j.B is long but has a poor vertical hitbox so try to stay below it. Approaching from above is also viable but Hazama's j.C is actually really annoying too, so watch for it.

4) D nail reset is bad in general now. It's only +3 on block so you risk getting CH'd or reversaled if you try to be aggressive after it. I've actually command thrown a Bang who tried to do D nail reset > 5B before.

5) Hazama can actually do a full Houtenjin combo even if you're in the air when you get hit by 6A or 6B. 6A is a good overhead in general but if you barrier 5B, 6A will almost always whiff so the only option that can hit you is 6B. 6B is +3 on block now though so if he does hit you with it better to play it safe. Getting hit by Hazama when he has meter is hurt.

6) Flash kick is the big threat in FRKZ but if you're playing good pressure he shouldn't ever get the chance to use it. If you're trying to bait Houtenjin go up and forward, not back. Houtenjin moves him forward a lot and whiffs a lot against forward movement in general. Whatever you do, though, try not to get hit by a flash kick during a crossup, because you'll eat automatic CH and Hazama can take a crossup FK counterhit into a Zaneiga for huge damage.

Also Houtenjin is straight-up troll. The recovery is fairly long though, you just botched that punish I think.

[DLM UNDEAD]

D-nails are actually +6 on block. But they really arent a good idea at all in this matchup.

[lolRee]

Hazama can cancel 6D right into 623D, which is AUB. If you block a normal chain, barrier block until you know he's not throwing dem hungry hungry coils.