[CS2] Iron Tager vs Noel

[A.X.I.S.]

qq I am gonna body the Noel mod tomorrow cheer me on.

Seriously lets talk about why Noel is a terrible character.

Lets discuss it here!

Thread name subject to change.

Oh Noel Noel Noel how have you risen up the ranks of being annoying still.

Lets talk about what you want to do as far as objectives go.

In CS1 our job was to troll Noel and make her feel like life is meaningless.

In CS2 your job is to make her play really stupid so you can punish her with 6A super armor and our lol Tager tactics.

This match up is pretty much who randoms who first, Tager's randoming Noel isn't as rewarding in damage but you get some perks to it...like it being Noel and when Tager has her in her clutches she has to throw out drive and hopes it wins.

Problem/Solution

• 
  -Noel running in-You can 360A her run in's for free momentum, use it sparingly.
  
• -5B-Yes 5B is greater than all of our pokes again but it doesn't mean we are out of options, IB it and if she thinks she can run for the stagger you 5A it.
  
• -5A/2A stagger- Block, just block it, she is gonna go into something else soon, prepare to react to the overhead...and do not get hit by muzzle filter!(command grab that only catches people standing.) in other words only stand to react to the overhead because I swear if you get hit by muzzle filter you will eat 4.5k into the corner.
  
• -J.4D-Really fast(10F) cross up low, it has no invul so you can 2C it, she uses this to beat 720, worst it can be tiger knee'd and it leads to 5k or so on CH, whatever you do block low and punish drive accordingly.
  
• -Optic barrel- This move is way faster, you can still sledge through it, Just IB it and advance forward.
  I found sledge follow up to be useful if I am a bit too far out of sledges range...only do it if you successfully sledged through optic barrel, even then becareful she may have enough time to block it.
  
  
  Close/Mid range
  
  
  • 
    Do your Tager thing and magnetize her fast, 5A whiff confirm a drive. (Most of her drives will get CH'd by the 5A.)
    Do not be obvious about throws, 2D will net her 5k midscreen.
    
  • when you magnetize her do not wrecklessly use 6A, j.4D will cross you up and drive 6C will cut through the super armor.
    
  • 360B>walk 2B>collider>B/Egadget works on her, capitalize on the damage.
    If she has meter do not use moves with a lot of recovery without caution, her CA allows her to get behind us.
    
  • When being pressured don't press buttons.
    
  • Staggers you want to 360 to beat is 2C>dash in and 5B>dash in, 5A/2AxN dash in will get you CH'd.
    

  Long range.

  Walk towards her until she feels scared enough to come in, 2A/2C works at stuffing her jumps.

  [*]2C will more than likely stuff j.4D if she tries to do it coming in. (stupid mind you but it beats 360/720 thus her playing stupid.)

  [*]Optic barrel is annoying, IB it and walk into range.

  This match up feels closer to CT, do not get hit by drives or you will feel that damage.

  5B having a great hitbox means you have to be close to stuff it with 5A/5B.

  Be incredibly random but not stupid, you want Noel to feel like she has to press D and once you do that its about your punish.

  5A mash will beat your wake up options without meter.

  Don't backdash Noel stupidly, 5AxN beats it and makes you eat 2K for it.

  Don't get cornered because then she doesn't have to dash in to use the higher level staggers.

  If you want a IB 720 on the ground then here you go.

  IB 2B and you can 720 2B>2B, 2B>2C, 2B>5C.

  Ok I will change some stuff soon.

Edited May 12, 2011 by A.X.I.S.

[Tong]

I know we're not Japan level but I believe Noel can get pretty much free pressure on the corner after ending combos with 6C(1) then Air Grab.

If Tager techs(obviously he will) Noel will just Airdash j.A xN then everthing starts all over.

Cant tager escape this? None of his air moves has priority to beat her j.A.

[NaRD]

Also, watch for Noel's ridiculous reset potential. Constant 6Cs enders can start her corner combo for an easy 3 to 4k damage back to back to back. Barrier guard FOREVER.

This is just a general tip, not too much of an issue for our hard Tager skin, but Noel has many safe moves that break guard primers. Be careful if and when you are forced to burst. Being guard crushed as Tager is just embarrassing (not saying it's happened to me, but..).

[A.X.I.S.]

Noel doesn't have safe moves that breaks primers.

They are mostly punishable with sledge/360.

[NaRD]

I know, which is why I said general tip, but you raise a good point. It's unsafe against a Tager. I was thinking of Makoto when I wrote that.

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

Our new Tager saying for Noel: FEAR DA TEGER!

Anyways...Even though we have the adv. How is our spacing looking in this match? I have seen matches like this. And it seems the Tager forgets how to space and gets own by the Noel player.

[BKDennis]

Which are the blockstring that can be punished with command grabs?

[Manta]

Diffcult to say because it's dependant on both what she hits you with and what she cancels it into. Generally speaking, Look for command grabs after blocking 2D. Everything else, just block low and wait until she tries a slow mixup move (d.6B, 6D, 214D, 214A) and 360A it. Or just 2A them. I find Noels try to run in close and then 2D to bait your 360s, using 4D instead stuffs that nonsense.

EDIT: English Tager has some amusing lines with this matchup.

[A.X.I.S.]

Which are the blockstring that can be punished with command grabs?

Um any stagger that leaves a 3 frame gap at least or something she has to dash into to continue pressure.

Since Noel doesn't have real blockstrings she can stagger pokes to make them into mini frame traps.

Problem is because she doesn't have real pressure Tager can 360A through them.

Noel's answer for this is 2D but Tager will probably not 360 at that time.

A blocked 2D normally gets her 360'D.

[rawrrawr45]

blocked 5B>TK j.4D for a crossup is a trick I use every now and again in noel pressure :x

[Tong]

I know we're not Japan level but I believe Noel can get pretty much free pressure on the corner after ending combos with 6C(1) then Air Grab.

If Tager techs(obviously he will) Noel will just Airdash j.A xN then everthing starts all over.

Cant tager escape this? None of his air moves has priority to beat her j.A.

Fellow Tager players, I've concluded that theres not problem getting hit by her j.A.

Its just the best option I believe because she cant combo into any decent stuff from that situation.

Better than having to eat a throw or dealing with corner pressure.

[Koopa_Klawz]

i keep forgetting to ask but is tager's 4D still a good move against noel? i know it destroys noels mashing out 2D under pressure but is there more use?

[Isorropia]

It's not a move that you're using under pressure (13f is just too slow), it's a move you should be using in footsies. It has 5 active frames, and the last 2 of those active frames have an amazing hitbox.

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/tager/4D.html

Basically as noel runs at you, press 4D (Adjusting timing based on spacing, you'll get a feel for it). As she tries to run in and 5B/2D/3C/whatever it is that noel runs in and does, if the timing is right she should get counterhit by the 4D.

[GunslingerSonic]

Remember Voltic Charge and Charge 6A can lose to Low.

It will lose to 2B, not 3C because all C attacks and Drives from Noel are projectile property.

If Noel manages to pull that off, you will eat a 2, 3 or 4k midscreen and 5 or 6k on corner combo from Noel.

There's sometime you should Noel's 2B. Block then do whatever the hell you want to do from there.

[Manta]

Remember Voltic Charge and Charge 6A can lose to Low.

It will lose to 2B, not 3C because all C attacks and Drives from Noel are projectile property.

That's only true of Voltic Charge. 6A is super armour and iirc will block lows, as long as the super armour holds, it doesn't care if it's projectile or not (Unlike CS1 where it did).

[Isorropia]

That's only true of Voltic Charge. 6A is super armour and iirc will block lows, as long as the super armour holds, it doesn't care if it's projectile or not (Unlike CS1 where it did).

Nah, 6A loses to lows, just like volt charge. But like he said, it absorbs noel's 3C because it's considered a projecctile.

[lardbucket]

Actually, you get CHed if someone lows you during charged 6A.

[Manta]

Really? I thought 6A was better than that, well damn.

(The frame data says nothing about it for 6A)

Edited July 19, 2011 by Manta

[A.X.I.S.]

Fellow Tager players, I've concluded that theres not problem getting hit by her j.A.

Its just the best option I believe because she cant combo into any decent stuff from that situation.

Better than having to eat a throw or dealing with corner pressure.

Luna told me he can get 3-4k off of J.A if it hits.

[Brice]

iirc if noel does airgrab you tach then airdash j.A you can reversal magna tech to make them think twice...

[Isorropia]

If noel does the airthrow tech > dash j.A, the j.A connects before you land on the ground, so grounded supers are out of the question.

In that situation, tager's j.A will stuff her j.A (purely by virtue of starting earlier, since she has to airdash into hers). If she isn't doing it with perfect timing your j.C can counterhit or sometimes just avoid the j.As (But even in testing I can't get it to work in one way consistently). Apparently the counter to these is to do Thor, but I've never seen it actually done in a match so I just autopilot j.A \ to get out of it.

Edit: Just saw where it happened in your match brice. They airdashed too late after the throw tech.

Also in that match, use 6A after gadget vs noel. It beats all her drive buttons and backdashes for free. If she starts wising up and does something like jump forward to beat 6A then go back to 5A.

Edit2: On further testing, j.C from tager will always counterhit noel airdashing in after an air throw tech. However, her j.D will beat both tager's j.A and j.C. And yeah, thor beats both, leads to easy 5k (maybe more, I was just doing ez noel combo).

Edited July 20, 2011 by Isorropia