[CS2] Rachel vs. Ragna

[Kuuhaku]

New game, new match up threads. Moving stuff around (CS1 stuff is getting moved to archives), but once I get a thread up feel free to use it.

j.2C (lvl 1) ender for air combos into whiffed 2A is great for baiting people who like to mash DP on wakeup.

Ragna's DP gets him like 1k damage now. It's pretty funny.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Bohemian Polka

[currentlemon]

Ragna has some trouble against Rachel's zoning. He doesn't have a lot of tools against it or he doesn't have any at all. Carnage Scissors can't go through projectiles, although it's been like that since CS1. The important thing is that Rachel players cannot be predictable with their zoning. Use lobelas, poles, frog, and pumpkins at your full extent. Use wind to mix-up your zoning. If you run out of wind, stay calm and continue to use your lobelas and your poles. If you want, you can use Tempest Delilah if you have no wind. Use 6a as well if he tries to go by air. If you do, Ragna will have a very hard time with you. Just one more thing, it's important to not get cornered. Do NOT get cornered by Ragna. Corner pressure is his specialty. It'll be worse if he uses Blood Kain. I'll post more stuff on Ragna when I have the free time.

[LuminAbyss]

Coming in from the Ragna side, the biggest thing Rachel has on him is her zoning. He honestly has to sit there and be patient throughout a lot of the match.

Be careful about throwing out George alot, as Ragna's 2D, 5C, and 3C kill him. 3C is most often used because it is jump cancellable. DP and 6A naturally beat Rachel's air options, but Rachel's 6A does the same against Ragna. Punish him for not spacing correctly with his air normals using that.

Also, watch for Deadspike, as it can bait Cat Chair as well as bursts when used properly, and is a big part of his pressure game now, making everything safer and tighter. Ragna's like to go into Deadspike after a blocked 2C or 5C. if it's on 2C, there's a good chance you can poke him out, as 2C does not have as high of blockstun as 5C, and I've been poked out of 2C > DS several times. 6A > DS is also an easy thing to attempt to poke out through, for the same reason as 2C, and he has to be at close range for 6A to even connect with your hitbox. 6A is also not as useful in pressure for Ragna since it has no gatlings, so he's always either going to jump away, IAD, or use a special off it. Be ready to counter him for attempting any of those after a blocked 6A. As said before, it's in your best interest to keep Ragna faaar away from the corner, as you will have a hard time getting out.

Anything he attempts into 6D can be Cat Chair'd, 6D has really slow start up, and leads to really good pressure and mix-up options. Give it any disrespect you can.

This match-up, I feel, is pretty similar to CT Rachel vs Ragna, albeit not as strongly in Rachel's favor. We gotta be close to do any good damage, so keeping us away is best!

(I hope this helps, I can't help but feel you guys all already know this kind of stuff >.<)

Edited May 27, 2011 by LuminAbyss

[gli]

Sometimes we want you to attempt to kill George. As long as you are not hitting Rachel we are golden :D

Something risky Ragna can do is to predict/guess Rachel is going to summon something and counter with Carnage Scissors.

[TD]

pumpkin stuffs cs on reaction, but if you dont have a pumpkin out and he has 50 heat, ragna can cs you on reaction unless you are using a projectile that interrupts his line of fire (practical cs stuffers would be: 5b, 2b, 236a, a winded pumpkin, td). lf he dosen't use cs, keep on zoning but keep things safe so that you can stuff his cs on reaction.

td beats dead spike on reaction. lf you have 50 heat and ragna does dead spike you can td out for free.

ln terms of pressure, when baiting dp be sure to barrier if youre in the air. his fat hitbox makes him really easy to mixup also.

[gli]

Very simple notes:

Just remember Ragna wants to get in no matter what in this match-up. If you see Ragna getting in easily then just take note of how he got in and adapt accordingly. More commonly, it's probably a simple dash-in that let's Ragna in for free. This is one match-up where cat chair should be (very carefully) used to keep Ragna off of you. Use it sparingly to feel out what your opponent wants to do. If you never use it then Ragna has no reason to stop pressure or reckless approaches. (At the other side of this, if you use it too much it becomes predictable thus making it useless).

Edited November 19, 2011 by glirandly

[Deikan]

I'm having Ragna troubles. I'm relatively new to the Blazblue scene and I keep getting blown up by Ragna's online. I follow are of the examples listed, but I still have trouble. Everytime I attempt to start my abc pressure Ragna's long reach and Hell's Fang really get the better of me and it leads to big damage against me.

Is there any advice anyone can give to a new Blazblue player about this matchup. I'm still struggling with other matches but I need help.

[Tari]

Mix up your approaches, and switch between zoning and rushdown as necessary.

If you constantly use the same approach, Ragna can probably find a solution to it and just hit you every time you run at him.

The generally safest means of approach is winding the pumpkin forward while rushing Ragna down, so that the pumpkin covers Rachel's approach. On the other hand, non-winded approaches tend to be very risky for Rachel.

Remember that Ragna really, really has issues dealing with zoning, and Rachel has more than enough zoning tools to make his life miserable. Having the pumpkin and George out at the same time as you're tossing lobelias willy-nilly at Ragna makes it very hard for him to approach Rachel. If he ends up having to block George, congratulations, you suddenly have a free approach.

If Ragna does get in on you, you just have to block until you see a gap you can poke out of. His pressure isn't the strongest, so there tends to be a number of places you can use 5A/2A to get free. Until the next game rolls around, 2C is also a reasonable answer to some of his pressure strings. I'd suggest you focus on using 5A/2A, though, so as not to grow reliant on 2C.

This match from NWM is actually a pretty good example of how to deal with Ragna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhV0GrB5yik#t=5m50s

[swordiris]

Another humerous thing with Ragna is that cat chair beats Carnage scissors. You do the first 2C and it clashes do another 2c immediately after and you will hit him with a counter cat chair.

[Tari]

It should just win without clashing. If it clashes, then it'll probably lose if Ragna does 5A > throw or something. Clashes gives both players the option to do any move, so there's no reason for Ragna to just sit there and let Carnage Scissors finish.

Chances are that if it clashes, anyway, you were at the maximum range of Carnage Scissors and your second 2C would whiff if Ragna just held D down and cancelled the second hit of CS.

[kotokot]

there is something wrong with random CS :O if he doing this, you must beat him easily.

Ragna is easy to deal, just play better than your opponent, there is nothing special about this. Don't drop combos, zone him properly, bait dp/dp rc, punish him and etc.

[swordiris]

It should just win without clashing. If it clashes, then it'll probably lose if Ragna does 5A > throw or something. Clashes gives both players the option to do any move, so there's no reason for Ragna to just sit there and let Carnage Scissors finish.

Chances are that if it clashes, anyway, you were at the maximum range of Carnage Scissors and your second 2C would whiff if Ragna just held D down and cancelled the second hit of CS.

I suppose, every Ragna i've tried it on fell for it though. However I suppose now that it is on dustloop they might become more aware. XD

Edited November 26, 2011 by swordiris

[Tari]

If a Ragna is throwing random Carnage Scissors, he is honestly asking to get his ass handed to him, unless you know for he knows for a fact that you're doing an entirely unsafe move that he can punish.

You don't even have to use cat chair to beat that move in neutral. You can just block and get good damage from basically any punish, too. Any character can punish that move on block, so....

It's not a matter of tricking the Ragna into using CS against cat chair, it's more that your opponent is either not well versed in how the game works or isn't taking the match seriously. That super tends to be used as a combo ender, not a poke.

That said, if a Ragna continues to throw that move out in neutral, do whatever you want to kill him, because he's basically giving you free damage.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Tari

[[SpA]Relentless]

I thought 2C can't clash anymore?

And even if it did, you can't cancel a clashed 2C like most other clashed moves, so i don't get how that 2C clash into immediate 2nd 2C should work.

[Kuuhaku]

2Cing Carnage Scissors isn't new. You could do that in CT even when cat chair was bad. Though, there is something that has to be said if Ragna is randomly throwing out Carnage Scissors at you. As Tari said, just block it and pick your starter.

[gli]

I still get owned pretty bad in this match-up.

Some random notes:

Mashing 2A during blockstrings means eating 2C fatal counter. Play solid defense. Ragna will eventually have to do something risky to open you up if you guard well. Ragna with meter ... just expect any number of things from Ragna pretty much (safe wake-up ID, TK GH, etc.) I admit I panic a lot in this match-up still so I mash cat chair at times (bad but doing it a few times will either make them back-off or drop pressure in favor of throws)

On offense you want to give Ragna a reason to use ID. On netplay it's hard to hitconfirm j.A since I have to preemptively chain into j.B to get it to come out but it's worth it. Rachel plan is the same as always; corner-carry into annoying Rachel corner game.

As far as how to burst in this match-up it's really up to you. Just remember that once you have no bursts this gives Ragna the option to Blood Kain (logically, if Ragna goes for BK when you do have burst the Ragna probably wants you to use that burst or plans to bait it somehow [never seen this ever though lol just my own thoughts]). Defensive bursting in this match is pretty risky since Ragna has relatively easy ways of breaking your guard primers (Dead Spike, GH follow-up, HF follow-up).

Probably the most important thing to learn in this match-up is how to zone Ragna. Mindless Lobelia spamming doesn't cut it I find. Learn how to space yourself and when going for Lobelia is safe. Whiff normals to change when you want to activate rods to keep things fresh. Some sub-goals to set is to be able to zone against Ragna without getting random HF'd out of it.

This match-up is still in Rachel's favor though. You don't have to take as many risks as Ragna does to get the win most of the time. If you have a hard time winning, it's probably because your defense against Ragna isn't up to par. Getting that knockdown with wind in stock is really important.

Edited December 8, 2011 by glirandly

[Deikan]

Topic: Dead Spike Corner Pressure.

I'm in a bit of a bind here. I faced a Ragna player of a high caliber and I'm having trouble keeping him out and also getting out of the corner. When I'm in the corner, he uses his usual bnb added with a Dead Spike which is 5d I believe (still not used to arcade terminology). The Dead Spike keeps breaking my primers and when I tried to attack after it, he manages to get a free counter hit and I keep getting horrendously beat down in the corner.

Is there a way out. I kept using counter assaults but I always get baited into doing it and I nearly got double perfected. I really need help here .

[InfiniteChaos]

Topic: Dead Spike Corner Pressure.

I'm in a bit of a bind here. I faced a Ragna player of a high caliber and I'm having trouble keeping him out and also getting out of the corner. When I'm in the corner, he uses his usual bnb added with a Dead Spike which is 5d I believe (still not used to arcade terminology). The Dead Spike keeps breaking my primers and when I tried to attack after it, he manages to get a free counter hit and I keep getting horrendously beat down in the corner.

Is there a way out. I kept using counter assaults but I always get baited into doing it and I nearly got double perfected. I really need help here .

Dead Spike is +3 on block so attacking after it is not the best decision to make. What you should be doing is noticing when he decides to use Dead Spike at certain points in his pressure because after you figure that out he is basically giving you a free way out.

Most Ragna's will use Dead Spike after 2C or 5C or when they are a relatively far distance away from you during their blockstring. Dead Spike has a extremely slow startup time so you can literally jump over it and even attack him and in most cases score a free counter hit, or you could just get out of the corner entirely by deciding to use wind.

Deciding to use wind will also reset the game back to neutral where you can continue to zone Ragna which he will have a hard time dealing with. Just make sure you do not become to predictable in the ways you try and escape his corner pressure , especially once he has 50 meter. As a Ragna player I can tell you his corner pressure is not very scary at all and just being patient most of the time will allow you an opportunity to escape.

Edited January 3, 2012 by InfiniteChaos
grammer error

[kotokot]

you can use 5B in ds startup or jump. Or ib it.

[Deikan]

you can use 5B in ds startup or jump. Or ib it.

What does IB mean again?

[Sakaku]

Instant block.

[Deikan]

I see thanks. I'm still now good/use to instant blocking, but I''m seriously working on it.