[CS2] Rachel vs. Noel

[Kuuhaku]

Overview

Noel is very strong in CS2, but she still has issues with getting zoned. Make use of that. You do not want to get hit by her on the ground as it'll hurt a lot. However, unlike CS1 Litchi, she cannot also destroy you for being in the air (unless you get shot out of the air by 6C).

Tips/Misc

• After 3C knock down, your safest option is 5B meaty (no summon).
  
• You don't want to get hit by Noel's drives. It sucks a lot. Watch for wake up drive, 2D crossover, and j.4D (it'll cross you up in the corner too).
  
• Zoning works pretty well if you're above Optic Barrel height. If she whiffs one, it's a free excuse to hit her in the face.
  
• Using 6A in block strings can stuff 2D mash, but it loses to 4D mash. A cannon will work against 2D and 4D mash, but loses to 5D mash.
  
• Go for corner carry as soon as possible as mid-screen knockdown actually puts you at a disadvantage.
  
• If she has 50 meter and you suspect a Counter Assault, walk back until you're at max 6B range. A lot will try to dead angle during George. But if she dead angles at that range, she'll end up in front of you and you can hit her back into the corner. If she tries to get behind you, 3C will trip her up and you can try to regain momentum from there. If you time it right, you can also try back throwing her back into the corner.
  
• Noels like to mashy mashy a lot. 2C can be effective, but also very risky. Use it well.
  

Character Specific Combos

JPN Match Up Videos

Here

Edited August 8, 2011 by Bohemian Polka

[Tae Seong Kim]

Tip from a Noel player (Helping you Rachel people kill my own kind )

- Watch your summons and when you throw out Lobelia, Noel's Optic Barrel is even faster now! So she can pop a cap up Nago's butt if you are not careful.

- This is old, but remember that Noel can Counter Assault her way out of Rachel's pressure and possibly punish you if you are not careful.

- Cat Chair can be useful against Noel D mash since she can't do anything against it, other than to RC and block, attempt a 4D, an Assault Through (Her shoulder cross up tackle) or Muzzle Flitter (Her command grab). The later two options are also risky for Noel as well. But do it at your own risk, and have 50% meter just in case. Noels should not be doing this in the first place, so you may not even run into it. *NEVER DO THIS AGAINST NOEL'S NORMALS!*

[gli]

I believe you can actually 6A Noel out of 2D if you do it early enough. I used this in CS whenever I established that the Noel I was playing would do it on wake-up predictably.

2D is also used as a cross-up if you block it crouching so be careful of that as well.

[Chazmobile]

Right, after playing a set of games against Hexa's Noel today and getting my arse utterly handed to me; I think I have some info to share with you wonderful people.

Let's start positive. As always, Rachel can carry Noel to the corner relatively easily once she gets a hit in, leading to the set ups of those deadly little corner traps. Personally, I think that this is the most important aspect of the match, getting DAT knockdown in the corner; use excess wind if you have to. I say this because it seems as though Noel does not have a safe, reliable way out of pressure without 50 heat; which could lead to potential resets if she tries something dumb. Even midscreen, basic 3c knockdown into pumpkin oki leaves you in a great position to take her further to the corner and mix her up like the tricksy little vampire you are. Like Polka said before, Noel still suffers from zoning (although I have been completely neglecting this tactic cos i'm stupid) so try and keep that woman out for as long as possible; Rachel's new wind regen should cover you well enough. Cat chair is great on drives and 6a stuffs jump-ins nicely.

Onto the negatives, Noel's midscreen damage is absurd in this game and unfortunately we don't have the hitpoints to deal with too much of it. Quick drives like j.4d can lead to 4k-4.5k plus knockdown and it doesn't help that Noel has a super easy haida loop on us. Noel's stagger pressure scares me, the right frame traps can lead into her silly damage and wake-up game, once she has you afraid to push buttons, she's already won (I always tend to store 50 heat for a counter assault if necessary). With the IB nerf, learn what you can and can't punish so that you can teach that bitch a lesson for hurting her ladyship. Though zoning maybe a viable strategy, her new optic barrel, like Tae said, is now actually useful and I have had Hex bust many a cap up Rachel's dainty behind when I try to summon, shifting the momentum back to Noel. Finally, look out for the damned counter assault, that and j.4d are the bane of my existence, good use of it by a Noel player can turn the match around.

The matchup is definitely difficult, it could be slightly in Noel's favour but I ain't too sure. Play smart, and don't do stupid things like me.

Just my two cents from a set of games. I would welcome more experienced players making some corrections and so on.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Chazmobile

[TD]

noel starts mashing 2d through your pressure. what do?

[HexaNoid]

Stagger > 2C. Or 6A. Both should beat it clean.

[CrescentSaber]

I find 2C great for this matchup as long you don't abuse it and get predictable. I use it whenever I see a 2D, 6B, or a 3C coming and if I have some wind, I like going for a short little combo. Or sometimes I summon george or the pumpkin.

As far as approaching, most Noels I've played against like to dash in and do j.D to try and bait an anti air. B lobelia works well for this. But be careful when she has 50 heat because she may bait it and blast you with bullet storm instead. Also be aware of cross ups with j.4D. If you see it coming you can jump yourself and come down on her with j.2D for a nice punish.

Zone her with j.B lobelia in the air, B lobelia and A lobelia on the ground, and summon when you have a knockdown setup. I think that's all I've got for now.

[Kuuhaku]

I generally find that pumpkin is pretty useful against Noel. Also, after 3C knock down you want to do meaty 5B instead of summon. Just trust me on this one...

TD- If they're mashing 2D, you can do what gli does and end your blockstrings with 6A (though watch out if they figure out that they can mash 4D instead). A cannon will also work except against 5D. But yeah... 2C is also decent if they're just mashing stupidly.

Rachel really has a hard time trying to win this fight mid screen at close range since Noel's risk/reward is better than Rachel's when Noel's the one who's knocked down (she'll eat 3-4.5k if you're the one to guess right, but if she's the one to guess right, you eat 4-6k).

Go for corner carry as soon as possible. If you suspect she's going to CA through stuff, you can 3C which will trip her or walk backwards (she'll end up in front of you and you can just smack her back into the corner).

[TD]

meaty 5b instead of summon? you mind explaining that? llrc, 3c pumpkin 5b is only -5, so it in theory would stuff anything but 5a and anti-5b moves (fenrir etc). plus, pumpkin has all attributes and will hit her out of everything barring fenrir (and that's -2 if done instantly).not questioning your logic though, you probably know a key something that l dont. 6a has saved me numerous times btw. it scares me lol.edit: disregard this lol. my calculations are off

Edited August 9, 2011 by TD

[gli]

I just tried it out. Meaty 5B is the safest option indeed. I'm not going to look back -_-

[C0R]

meaty 5b instead of summon? you mind explaining that? llrc, 3c pumpkin 5b is only -5, so it in theory would stuff anything but 5a and anti-5b moves (fenrir etc). plus, pumpkin has all attributes and will hit her out of everything barring fenrir (and that's -2 if done instantly).

not questioning your logic though, you probably know a key something that l dont.

6a has saved me numerous times btw. it scares me lol.

Yo we tested it, a million times, with the whole crew.

5b :<

[Kuuhaku]

Yo we tested it, a million times, with the whole crew.

5b :<

This. I'd explain it in more detail, but it just makes me sad and I'd prefer to not post it publicly if needed. PM me if you really want to know.

[unsanctifier]

6CD is a pretty solid option as well against Noel. Or at least, it always works against LunaKage without a hitch. As a wakeup option, mind you. Beats out everything he's tried 'cept wakeup Fenrir of course.

[gli]

You can try different stuff on knockdown against Noel but, as mentioned earlier, the only truly safe option relative to Rachel's other choices is non-summon meaty 5B.

I highly recommend trying it out in training mode to see for yourself (I did this once Polka stated that meaty 5B was the only answer so I had to see it to believe it). Make Rachel your dummy opponent with Noel as the character you control and record 3C > summon > 5B. Have Noel try stuff on her wake-up. Run through the list of Noel's moves. Then later try meaty 5B and run through the list again. Try Rachel's 6CD, dash-in 2A, whatever else. Eventually you will see the horrible truth

From all that you will learn why meaty 5B is the only way to go.

Edited August 8, 2011 by glirandly

[unsanctifier]

6CD is ok if you don't summon from what I've seen. I use 5b after summon as well.

[gli]

No summon meaty 6CD can be 3C'd under. More than likely you will end up in the corner for missing your target

5B after summon isn't safe.

It really is sad but you just have to hold off on okizeme against her until you get her cornered.

[unsanctifier]

Hmmm, Luna hasn't tried 3C apparently. But wake up 3C? Is it heard of? xD

If they're trained I like to use 5b after summon lately. Sometimes I'll just step out of 4D range and 6A if they like 2D. But if they know how to use 5D I'll just empty jump after frog. It really depends with Noel, so many options q.q

But yeah like I said, Luna is the only Noel I've played consistently. 6CD works against him

[Kuuhaku]

If you're not going to summon after knockdown, you might as well 5B. If she is mashing, that is one of your best starters and if she actually blocks, all of your pressure starts from 5B. So there's really no reason not to (unless you want to try lulzing and do meaty 5C).

[unsanctifier]

Yeah you guys are right. But that doesn't mean I like to change it up and do different things. It is a lot of fun baiting a 2D with 6A.

[gli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYhFCB4H06k

This is a replay attempting to show how strong meaty 5B is.
If you give a generic Noel any sort of gap it's almost guaranteed they will want to do something. Meaty 5B just shuts down all of that.

Key points of the video are linked in the listed numbers under each round.
Round 1 - Rachel tries to wait and see what Noel wants to do. She attempts frog oki only to see that the Noel is just mashing.
1) In this timecode Rachel attempts frog oki and gets thrown out of :<

Round 2 - Rachel wises up and realizes frog oki will not work on this Noel. She opts to do 3C > no summon > meaty 5B and ends up winning the round.
1) This is more like it! Meaty 5B makes Noel block.
2) Meaty 5B catches Noel doing something.
3) Meaty 5B off of throw and off of another 3C knockdown. Noel is forced to block. Rachel has her way :3

Round 3 - Rachel wins the round convincingly using meaty 5B. Noel still doesn't respect this and continues to get caught mashing during her wake-up.
1) Get counterhit Noel!
Right after that, frog oki is attempted just to expose this Noel's habit of mashing throw on wake-up whenever the Rachel is that close on her wake-up.
It gets baited by Rachel jumping out in time.


Meaty 5B in combination with 6A in select staggered blockstrings to stuff random 2D should be enough to "scrub-bust" generic drive mashing Noel's. Go out there and expose autopilot Noel strats :D

[kirbster]

That's pretty good to know, thanks.

[Nini Heart]

Pretty much any meaty attack forces Noel to block on wake up since she doesn't have a frame 1 invuln move besides her super.

[gli]

Right but 5B is the best option since it does what the other normals can and more.

Like the other meaty normal options it forces her to block with no meter. If she blocks you can go to 5B 2B pressure. If it hits you have a good starter for a combo.

• 2A does this too but carries higher risk because of less active frames. You mistime it you get hit by 2D. Even if it hits you have a crappy starter for a combo. Why do this when 5B exists?
  
• 5A is the same.
  
• 2B is the same.
  
• 6A you only go into air combo. You can still pressure at least.
  
• 6B is okay but if it hits you can't really combo.
  
• 6C is horrible.
  
• 5C is an odd choice but I guess it's not too bad. If it gets blocked though you can't go into pressure like you can with 5B.
  
• 2C only works if you are sure you will guard break them when you force her to block. Otherwise it gets blocked and you are open to big damage. The only plus side is if you CH her you can go into the big damaging CH 2C combo.
  
• 3C you can only go into another meaty option or try to hit confirm into a combo.
  
• 4B is really slow and easy to mistime.
  

Edited August 13, 2011 by glirandly

[[SpA]Relentless]

If she blocks you can go to 5B 2B pressure. If it hits you have a good starter for a combo.

Then why didn't you do it? :X

You just always did 5B > 3C despite having wind, assuming you'd get the CH every time. Once you even got CH 5B > 5CD and ended with 3C in the corner instead of going for damaging combo. No offense, but that was auto-piloting too <-- safety smiley

Still a good vid to see the application and effects of meaty 5B so props for that.

[TD]

6c isnt bad. lt leads into good damage and you can make it safe. lts worth throwing out sometimes if you ask me.