[CS2] Lambda vs Tager

[kenja0]

Matchup: 6-4

[CS2] Tager vs Lambda

Tager, Tager, Tager. Why do you keep getting buffed with random stuff? The only thing you really need is a dash/airdash.

Every time we go through an update, Tager looks really hard to stop, then he gets destroyed by an exploit that crushes his spamming offensive. Not to mention, as a keep away character, Lambda should be reactionary anyway. If you have trouble don't fret, Scissors beats Rock.

Normal players have big problems with Tager because competitive Tagers do things differently than what you may get in a casual match. The reason is, most casual Tagers don't know why they should be scared. This is a guide to bringing all of those fears into realization.

Jumping

Tager is gigantic. If you're attempting to run away by flying over him, you're probably not going to get over him from a single jump. To get over him, be sure to double jump or super jump- IADs don't work at all if you're used to doing that. Also, make sure he doesn't read your jump because Atomic Collider will murder you and 90% of his normals now have AA properties.

If Tager is jumping while you are on the ground, contemplate if you would like to switch sides and make a dash/236A for it. You may also be able to 236C him if you're spaced well enough. Otherwise, just shot 6D very often. In this match, 6D is probably more important to do than 5D because of the jump cancel, the fact that Tager can be hit by 6D almost full screen, and because CH 6D will also lead into 236C. Sadly, one of the safest things Tager can do is jump and barrier block. It's like he can't be touched.

Tager Plays

Tager players tend to do a set number of actions in their approach, their blockstrings, their offense, etc. Against any other character, it's bad to play the game like Rock-Paper-Scissors in response to their actions because of the sheer speed the attacks and the fact that Lambda has bad, slow normals. Tager is different. His attacks are so incredibly slow that you can accurately process a counter strategy and perform it while he's doing these things. Against any other characters, it takes prediction... against Tager, it's a quick time event.

Backdash

Tager's backdash is extremely good. It's basically like its own counter against heavy attack. If you are close to Tager and you're trying to grab or attack, his backdash will completely negate that action, and he is able to follow-up with a 360. The best thing to do against this is to use attacks that have low startup/recovery so you can attempt to gatling into another attack and hit him during the end of that dash. Depending on timing, the counters to this motion can also be detrimentally dangerous (like Act Parsers). Just don't get predicted.

6A: Now contains upper body super armor. It absorbs infinite hits during the hold, but can be hit out of as soon as it becomes active. It also pulls people in if they are magnetized. The best way to trump this attack is to link any attack that was absorbed into a 2B/3C/236B. If the opponent's timing is good, they can hit you out of your possible counter. Alternatively, 6DD this into a jump cancel so you can block instead of suffering from recovery. And remember, if you're in the air, be sure to barrier block this attack.

5D: I have a friend who would just 5D spam all the damn time. Then, when you try to predict the 5D, he does 360s. How do you stop this? Mindgames, son. I would try to attack low 3C. Any other time, I would jump and barrier to avoid random 360s. Apparently, it doesn't have a guard point, but I remember hearing somewhere it did- oh well, at least he can't teleport like Bang's guard points... that would be scary.

2D: Volt Tackle, Pikachu! You get knocked down and he doesn't Gadget Finger you. Don't roll. This will hit you out of it. Also, time Neutral techs to not get any of the active frames. This has been dropped for far better things... such as Gadget Finger.

j.C: Finding Nemo. Tager really wants an airdash. He uses this to gain momentum in the air. This also makes air to air combat really tough close up- it's like you can't ever grab him in the air. If you're spaced properly, shoot a D at him since it will knock him out. Watch your spacing because if you attack his face... it clashes.

j.2C: People's Elbow. If Tager is right above you and you think you can AA him with a normal... think again. This attack stops his air momentum for a second and drops him straight down. If he's higher in the air, the attack has a pretty noticeable startup time. His attack box ends at the first panel of his waist armor and his hitbox goes to his toes. They overlap so if you want to attack, make sure you use an attack with infinite priority (disjointed hitbox). The timing for AA is so tight... I would almost never use 6A. 2C may be a better AA for this since it is slower, so it's easier to reaction time this. 4B(2) also magically beats Tager if you time it well, otherwise it trades. If you can't succeed, Barrier block him high- you don't want to magically get crossed up, you want to stand in place. Don't worry about punishing, it has a noticeable recovery time.

Low j.2C: If Tager is low enough to the ground while airborne, his j.2C comes out instantaneously- no startup whatsoever.

j.D: Clap. If you're magnetized, this will pull you in. Watch your hitbox and where his hands are, this can get people on the ground sometimes. If you can, AA him well.

236A/236B: Sledge. The Tager standard to fighting against Lambda. It carries projectile invincibility throughout the start up and active frames- this includes Lambda's 5Cs. Despite this, Tager is completely vulnerable during the recovery. Properly space yourself and time a CH5D/6D as it will lead directly into 236C. Alternatively, you can attack with a physical attack (236B comes to mind) before his active frames.

>236A: Hammer. This attack will absorb Lambda's projectiles even more. It also gives him a burst of imaginary momentum (he slides). If you were timing a CH on Sledge then think again. Space properly for both Sledge and Hammer, so it won't be a threat.

623C: Atomic Collider. Usually, Tager will knock you away, then Atomic Collider. If you're dumb enough to air tech, you better be attacking before you get back to Tager- otherwise, you're going to eat it. The best thing to do is wait until you hit the ground, then quick wake up. Neutral Tech can get pulled (point blank range to him actually) and rolling prevents movement for a good amount of time. If you're getting pulled under a normal circumstance, I recommend j.B. j.C works also, but the timing may not be as good.

214D: Charge. Different command, same function. It gives Tager upper body invincibility to projectiles. Tagers will do this against Lambda to get a free charge when she is just too spam happy. The best way to counter this is to do a physical attack: 236B. Another option is to time a D move (4D/5D/6D) to CH him out of it similar to his Sledgehammers. Note: Tagers may also use this to bait BURSTS. Don't get baited- it's usually followed up with a 360/720 or Atomic Collider. Personally, I think Tager players are willing to use this more now, simply because the command is way easier and will not be mistake for a random 360.

41236D: Spark Bolt. Sometimes Tagers do it in combo, other times, he will fire it at you when you're open. If you get knocked down full screen, don't roll- Spark Bolt kills you. Be cautious with your zoning- Spark Bolt kills you. Don't dash in too fast- Spark Bolt kills you. You're going to want to keep your fingers on A+B (Barrier Block) so you can cancel out of anything into Barrier. Mind you, it magnetizes and breaks one primer. Hilariously enough, 236236D beats it.

22D: Gadget Finger. After a Gadget finger, you're pretty screwed against Tager. Backdash or aerial backdash. Poke with 5A. Bursting will always be Gold. Something... the game is rigged in his favor.

22D RC: Sometimes, a Tager will rapid cancel out of his Gadget Finger in hopes to reset you. You are infinitely stuck in stun animation until you touch the ground. He can either continue his combos or go for a purple 360 if you're too mashy or he's too impatient. However, what Tager usually wants to do is sling you with Atomic Colliders until your movement is so random, you don't know where or when you'll land. When you do, Tager can go for a low, high, cross-up, or just plain 360. When you're in this state, be attentive on which side you may land on and that sometimes, he may go for a grab. The technique is never 100% accurate, so there are always holes in that offense. Jump barrier is preferred if you can do this (but he may Atomic Collider you).

360A/B: Tager Buster Damn that damage- not even CS1 Rachel could deal that much with 100 Heat combos. Stay on your toes and never be within range of Tager unless you're planning your escape or grabbing him. Apparently, our 214A is grab invincible which makes this easier to tackle. In CS2, 4B is actually a ground based move (before it was considered airborne)- you can now be grabbed out of this move if you were trying to get an edge up on Tager. Be careful because if Tager blocks 4B[1], then he can 360 you no matter how far you think you are after it.

720C: Emerald Tager Buster This move now pulls your character about 2 character lengths towards Tager before the super flash. Any zoning technique you may try to do will get instantly punished if you don't space properly while you are magnetized.

Another way you will usually see this is if Tager has 50 Heat and he's falling from the sky while you're knocked down. The worst thing you can do is roll, since you're stuck; the other bad thing you can do is neutral tech. You can either: wait until he initiates it so you can roll past him OR what I would do is quick wake up and jump.

236236B: Lariat This will beat everything you do. With magnetism, it will probably bring you in and destroy you from half screen. Luckily, you can now RC and block out of this super- something you couldn't do before. Oh yeah, if you're on the ground, block the last hit high. If you're in the air and you suddenly get blendered in the top... you have a 50% chance that the last hit will cross you up for the same damage as the entire super... I don't know if there is any magic trick to beating this out, but just note this.

236236B RC: One of Tager's dirtiest tricks. Each hit of Tager's super has like 1 frame of hit/blockstun while the next one comes out the next frame. Usually, when Tager has the Heat and you are blocking his random super, he'll RC out of it and either go for a clean 360 or low (since the attack hits high). More mind games with Atomic Collider and overheads. If you're in the air blocking it, he may go for a 360 more often than not.

5D>236B: This is an important blockstring that most Tager players rely on to reset. The best way to counter this is to 5A in the recover frames of his 5D. There is just enough time to tap him out of it.

Ground Poke>Atomic Collider: This is something my friend found in CS1. Anytime I was jumping to get away or jumping in, he would attempt to 5A me like 4 times or 5C me. I usually block this because I always block when I'm jumping in or out, then he Atomic Colliders and successfully wins. It's essentially a block confirm into an unbreakable grab. This gets dumb fast, and I can't really believe no one has found this out yet. For CS2, I believe it's the same... and yet it still works with Barrier pushing back too. Test it out in training... it's incredibly dumb.

Network Play

Tager is a bitch online. Lag hurts Lambda's timing and allows Tager free 360s (against anyone in general). This is why a lot of people have problems with him anyway. There's nothing you can do against the lagging, so don't ever take online play seriously enough against Tagers.

Starting a Match

90% of Tagers will jump at you at the start of the round. 9% will Sledge. Hilariously enough, Lambda got 2 buffs that benefit her for this. Her aerial backdash is faster now AND she has AA normals now. Testing against every Tager I've come across online, 4B is really damn good against their jumping- both hits are AAs and the second hit has the same hitbox as Ragna 6A.

Rolling vs point blank Tagers

DON'T F***ING DO IT! EVER!!!!!!!!!

I'll update with feedback

Edited June 2, 2011 by kenja0

[toanenadiz]

One thing to note, Tager's 5D has 28 frames of blockstun. His 236B has 35 frames of start-up. So we can always 5A out of his 5D->236B blockstring without IB.

[kenja0]

That 5A thing actually works. Can't believe I never did this before...

[Overheat]

5D has a guardpoint, so I would try to attack low 3C.

I'm pretty sure his 5D doesn't have guardpoint.

[toanenadiz]

About 720, if Tager does a 720 while you are on the ground or when you are neutral teching, you can do a wake-up gravity well for a FC. You can also just hold up if you lack gravity meter.

[cookiehours]

I remembered rolling against a Tager once in CS1. Not pretty. How would you do a quick wakeup with pad? I always have a tendency to roll but can never figure out how to to the quick wakeup on pad. :S

[toanenadiz]

I remembered rolling against a Tager once in CS1. Not pretty. How would you do a quick wakeup with pad? I always have a tendency to roll but can never figure out how to to the quick wakeup on pad. :S

2+A/B/C

[cookiehours]

2+A/B/C

Okay, thanks. I figured it out.

[kenja0]

Fought a good Tager today around a tournament setting. Learned more about his 6A and what do. Also, after like 10 rounds, most of my zoning fell into repetition and couldn't really get into his defense: 90% of my throws were telegraphed, my overheads (4B, 4D and j.214D) and lows (like 236B) were getting read, and Sledgehammers were well placed. I was forced to attempt guard breaks to get in. Overall, matches were getting closer to that 50-50 mark towards the end of our endeavors.

[A.X.I.S.]

FYI Gadget sling shot is not all that Tager can do off gadget RC.

The threat of gadget RC is that he can do many things to inhance the mix up to turn it into a true 50/50.

Sling shot is just the most evil.

Another note about 720 is that it pulls before the flash now meaning he can grab you half screen because you wanted to 214D/236D.

[cookiehours]

I seem to have problems with this matchup now. rampage_chuck (not sure if any of you fought him) is probably the hardest Tager I've ever fought. He blocks *everything*. Zoning him is not the problem.

Getting magnetized is the problem.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but either magnetism got even stronger or there's some way to avoid Sparkbolt.

I don't know, can someone help me?

[M4g1c4lM4g1]

well the way I try to get Tager to do something stupid, is to try to break his Guard Primers with Spike Chaser

using Spike Chaser when at full screen and use Sickle Wheel when he is getting in via jump in (he'll land on the Sickle and he'll get pushed away on block)

if he is remotely close to you, do NOT use Spike Chaser, he will just Sledge and sometimes Hammer as well to catch your 5D punisher

using your Parsers isn't a really a good idea since he can punish you, you can try using your Parser A to cross him up when he is in the air

if you get magnetized don't panic, there is only so much he can do

don't jump too much since lol Collider, and your backdashes can get caught by 2D or worse, 5D can pull you in during your backdash and then he can use the 720 pull to get you

you can 5A, 2A and 2B his moves that have long start up

and if you see his 6A you can 3C into a gravity combo

and last but not least, if you get magnetized on block by Spark Bolt full screen then do I what I do

throw a gravity seed on his position, he won't be able to utilize his magnetism to its fullest potential

hope that helps

if anyone wants to contribute go ahead, since well I is scrubby

...post is too good to stay in NPG alone...

[cookiehours]

...post is too good to stay in NPG alone...

Yeah, that will hopefully help me now.