someonewhodied Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I was asking if there was a universal thing I could do. I'm not that great at predicting now.
toanenadiz Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 You can't figure out the answer yourself with the info I gave?
Starkaiser Posted July 20, 2011 Author Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) My friends already played online match for over 3000 rounds, so he kidda know how to varie his mix-up, but Jin still get the limit on how he couldn't overhead much. Only 2 way for Jin to overhead combo is by jump attack or by doing 6A->rapid. So that help me for the block and I keep crouch blocking him mainly. The only remain problem I have with his block sting is that I don't know when can I counter him if he just keep reseting his safe attack. keep blocking and finally he would be able to break in my guard when I did any mistake. (mainly trying to counter him at wrong time) Well, in Thailand we have a little online competition last week, and that Jin got to fought with another Jin in mirror match. I have that recorded, it might tell you what he did often on sting. Edited July 20, 2011 by Starkaiser
someonewhodied Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 You can't figure out the answer yourself with the info I gave? I'm trapped in the corner when that happens so no backdash. You don't think I'd let a Jin near me midscreen do you? And I figured out that I can IB for 50% heat and get a fatal DP SoD for a nice little combo.
toanenadiz Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 I'm trapped in the corner when that happens so no backdash. You don't think I'd let a Jin near me midscreen do you? And I figured out that I can IB for 50% heat and get a fatal DP SoD for a nice little combo. Actually, you can still backdash 5C/2C->6C in the corner. You are using your backdash's invincibility to have 6C whiff. Lambda's backdash has invincibility for the first 5 frames and is 25 frames in total. Jin's 6C has 3 active frames and 27 frames of recovery. So if you backdash 6C, you have the advantage. And my answer to what to do after 6C is to just block. You can react to the dash and 6D. Ice car and DP are both punishable on block.
Starkaiser Posted July 20, 2011 Author Posted July 20, 2011 We have so many Jin users in competition, and as expected final round is Jin vs Jin. and one of the guy of the competitor in this match is the guy I have trouble with. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmiu5pIpzzw I think they both are quite good with Jin. I m trying to find their weak hole from this lol.
someonewhodied Posted July 21, 2011 Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) I think its quite obvious. They seem to not block, but attack out of dashes and air dashes. Just Airdash back and get a nice little 2DD in. And make sure to feint a crescent so you don't leave yourself open. Also, practice grab rejects. They seem to grab a lot. Edited July 21, 2011 by someonewhodied
Starkaiser Posted July 21, 2011 Author Posted July 21, 2011 (edited) The block part, well ..should be another way around... <,<; well, if you look at my lambda vs Jin vid, then they blocked a lot at distant they lose or in disadvantage situation, basically, I think that the reason they not block much there because it is not lambda match.. and they think they can make it faster than other so bet on that.. (same char, same distant, same attack, faster = win) About grab, I m now good with it already. ^^b Edited July 21, 2011 by Starkaiser
Starkaiser Posted July 23, 2011 Author Posted July 23, 2011 Thank for every helps here, not so good yet, but I think I already know how to control situation with Jin ^,^ here are my new videos : I finally got to win against a Jin user who has over 3000 Win game-play at around 50:50 now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMyu-PagNl4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pWQARQp2l8 I also win another random Jin who joined the room by 100% rate too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaWR5_J3PEY So I think I m much better at Jin than before now at least. this thread has served it purpose.
someonewhodied Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Hmm. Its wrong for me to tell you to do these things since I'm not much better (Or maybe not even as good as you) but, 1. You can easily instant block the second part of ice cars since its predictable. 2. Gravity seed is only really good for the following on jin: Comboes (A seed), Ice Car Trap (B seed), and stalling (C seed after 5DD) 3. You should play against better players. That jin keeps dropping comboes. And he didn't farm your legacy edge with IBs for big heat. 4. You can get a free 214D on a Jin's whiffed 2D. 5. You tap barrier sometimes like I do. Its useless. I only do that because it quickens my reflexes if I'm always tapping something. It only really barriers every other hit...IF you are lucky. 6. You can do 2 TK crescent loops into a 6A>6C>236C from a corner grab. My favorite corner throw combo is 5BC>6A>2148D>6A>2148D>6A>6C>236C>Dash under>4B(2)>2DD>214A>2C/2DD>2148D>6DD>2DD>Air Ender. Of course its hard to get a corner throw while you have gravity... Edited July 24, 2011 by someonewhodied
Starkaiser Posted July 24, 2011 Author Posted July 24, 2011 It is hard to realise your fault during play, but I usually notice them later in video. Ya, I know pretty much those except gravity ice car part. Good players would never allow predictable. The thing is that our internet players will never have a perfect game play. Really, I alway try to follow jp vid to copy their step and stuff. Then I realize later that we aren't in that appropriate level yet. So I just getting better when I try to make my own style. And in this level, mistake gonna happen a lot. (even tourney pro still fail for purple throw) So the video isn't mean to show a perfect but only give general out line only. Thank for comment and tip tho, keep them coming, sometime it might be something I never think of
someonewhodied Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 hmm also, just another small tip, spamming 5C on an opponent downed in the corner is ALWAYS a good idea (With proper spacing) because it will ALWAYS do one of the following: Punish DPs (this is why spacing is important) (5C(CH)>214C>5B>6C>2148D>6A>6C>236C>214A>2DD>2148D>6A>6C>236C>2DD>Air ender for free) Punish Rolls (Air hit 5Cs in the corner leads to big damage. EASY Meterless 4K) Lock opponent back into shielding. (You can get a grab in, take out guard primers, get away safely after blockstring>2C>jump away) Yeah spamming 5C is is looked down upon but its good for almost every corner situation.
BeaverDeity Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 idk why but I've always loved this matchup. Not sure what the ratio is but fighting Jin is always a nice challenge and makes you feel good when you win. :D
Starkaiser Posted July 25, 2011 Author Posted July 25, 2011 For the normal match, yes on the 5C, because I never seen any move to counter it yet in the proper space. it force opponent to guard, and force the stupid one to try to counter and getting hit by our 5C instead. (it has 1 frame every hit after the first one, that is why nobody can counter it) However,in JP pro vid, they won't do this, because once Opponent guard your 5C in "distant that avoid DP". you will remain to have very small mix-up to continue combo after that.and if they guard all, they will be able to start counter-attack you. (Pro players won't try to counter your 5C, they will just guard it and seeing as oki) It is better to use 236D to oki pro players, because it give you more mix-up choice when they guard it.
someonewhodied Posted July 25, 2011 Posted July 25, 2011 Well against good players, its all gonna be blocked anyways since its all mid/low. Lambda can't use any overheads mid-blockstring X_x Only at the end of them. You can always 5Cx8>2c>jump away.
Fireryda Posted July 26, 2011 Posted July 26, 2011 if you're in range to 2c. they're in range to dp you.
someonewhodied Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 Out of what I tested, Jin (Well, for his 623C and D), Rachel (If you count the chair as a DP... its her only invicible move) Mu, or Hakumen (2147B) can't DP you on wakeup successfully. Of course you have to hit with like the very edge of 2C. And I guess that with the trouble it takes to position for some of these, its better just to do 5CxN>3C>236D>Dash>6A>2C>Jump away. Its safer that way Tsubaki, Ragna, Jin's 623B, Noel, and Lambda (632146D only) can still hit you in 2C range though. And carl can still spin out and get a 2C fatal in time. Even on the first 5C if I remember correctly. Anyone not mentioned, I haven't tested.
lilseph Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 At the end of the day i think we can agree that 5C massing in corner is good but there are better options. 236D oki is ridiculous and just a simple 2A,2B would do the trick to stop a roll.
Starkaiser Posted July 27, 2011 Author Posted July 27, 2011 If the opponent is new to lambda, use 5C as oki will make him hit with another combo by you, but if he is pro one, use 236 oki always the best.
someonewhodied Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) Heres what I've found: 5C oki: (Roll Wakeup, both directions) If you successfully Oki your opponent, 5C will give an air hit. 5CX8>6C>236C>Dash under>5CxN>6C>236D>214D~C>236C>Dash under>4B(2)>2DD>214A>2DD>2147D>Dash>6A>6C>236C>5CxN>2C>Air Ender 5C blocked: (Normal Wakeup) 5Cx8>3C>236D>Dash>6A>2B>2C>Jump Away. 236D Oki: Backward Roll only You start the same combo above, just without the starting segment. And your opponent can tech if you do a second [Dash under>5CxN>6C>236D] by teching after the first wheel hit. 236D>214D~C>236C>Dash under>4B(2)>2DD>214A>2DD>2147D>Dash>6A>6C>236C>5CxN>2C>Air Ender 236D Blocked: Normal Wakeup. You can drain more of your opponent's barrier and one guard primer safely. 236D>214D>Dash>6A>2B>2C>Jump Away 236D Punishable: Forward Roll. (Must be immediate or Oki will still hit) Your opponent gets a nice little Counter/Fatal. You decide which is safer. Too long for you? ok. 5C leaves you 100% safe if you position yourself out of DP range. 236D can be punished with a forward roll. Unless you are further away, but it takes about the amount of time to position yourself correctly after a 3C or 236B as it takes your opponent to tech. of course you can lock your opponent in the corner with an A seed. But gravity has much better uses. Yeah I spam 5C like a noob and I win based off of predicting my opponent and landing random 2Bs and 5Cs instead of actual skill, but I have never once been punished for spamming 5C in the Corner when I take the time to space myself. Edited July 27, 2011 by someonewhodied
tuka Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) Sorry for being so blunt but...your'e talking nonsense. 5C Hit (tech rolling after a Lambda knockdown is lolz worthy and online exclusive) - 6-7K Damage in the corner, no problems here except no sane player will get hit by that. Ever. 5C Blocked - 5Cx8>3C>236D !? Do you have any idea of how HUGE of a gap there is between 3C and 236D? That's just asking to get hit by something big. 236D Oki - will always catch back and forward rolls. You can't forward roll to avoid it, unless you did it mad late which is just stupid and pointless. And you can't do two 236D's in a non-fatal combo (and there's no good in that either), so it's nothing worth pointing out. 236D Blocked - barrier and primers...? you have one of the best mix-ups in the game and you waste your time on those things? Have a look - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL907E6077A340FBB8 Both 5C and 236D are 100% safe on oki. Small difference is that 5C gives you nothing and 236D gives you every possible option Lambda has. Small notes: - Already said that but - work on your transcript! most of the combos you write down are not legit. And while your'e on it, the ones you do write properly kinda suck, step up your game! (I'll see what I can do about some organized combo thread / video in the very near future). - It's also not the first time I saw you talk nonsense, I believe most of your experience and knowledge comes from online play, which is bad and misleading (though I do understand some people have no choice, no need to dwell on that subject anymore). If I have enough free time I'll try to correct you and others. - Don't take to heart anything I say or how I say it, I want to help and I feel I need to be pretty blunt for it to go through. Edited July 27, 2011 by tuka
someonewhodied Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) Well, the only experience I have is online play so..well. I KNOW It works online most of the time. And the comboes that I state should work. (Even though it may be that my opponent is missing multiple techs, since it sometimes goes blue between attacks that I KNOW will combo, like sometimes, it will go blue in the middle of 5C mash, sometimes between 2DD and A seed.) Of course, it could just be online thats messing me up. My opponents always seem to roll forward safely out of 236D in the corner and I lose ~4K. Edited July 27, 2011 by someonewhodied
someonewhodied Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 I don't deny that I'm terrible. I'm just posting things that I've tried and have sometimes (if only once a while) worked. And I only play online, so theres that which may influence why some simple and stupid things work too.
Emjay Posted July 28, 2011 Posted July 28, 2011 What tuka said. 236D oki is a god given gift you should use by all means. 5C is just bad outside of combos, some blockstrings and aside from punishing with it. Every decent player will punish you hard if you use it just randomly midscreen into nowhere or as an antiair(lol). The only mixup you get from 5C on block is a perfectly spaced 4B2/3C mixup. Here are some more ways to use 236D Corner oki -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBC7tXufgCY The combos are probably outdated, but the setups are what its about. Both 5C and 236D are 100% safe on oki. Not on all characters, but I dunno if your talking exclusively about Jin now, because were in his MU thread. Like Tao can crawl under 5C and e.g. 2B you on wakeup. Bang can D-counter both 5C and 236D. Haku can counter spam both for multiple hits. Rachel can windtech in your face. Carl can just roll out of 5C, i havent tried if it works on 236D. And Tager can just Sledge through both. You can still bait most of these, but they are annoying to deal with at least :P Instead of further discussing oki in here, we should maybe be taking it to its own thread or the general discussion one.
Starkaiser Posted July 28, 2011 Author Posted July 28, 2011 236D oki is safe option, do you ever seen any JP pro get punish by doing so? Only possible for opponent to punish you from that is if you miss timing to use it. (with practice, you shouldn't miss it tho) I won't argue about 5C is safe or not, it is all depend on your opponent ( I do use it too when I know opponent is being haste), but there is reasons why pro JP players rarely doing so. ( I mean very very rare)
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