someonewhodied Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Well, I'm getting better at mixups after seeing that youtube playlist... but.. back on this thread's topic. Ice cars.... I successfully ducked 2 C cars in a Jin mirror match. Can lambda duck the C ice cars?
cookiehours Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 Well, I'm getting better at mixups after seeing that youtube playlist... but.. back on this thread's topic. Ice cars.... I successfully ducked 2 C cars in a Jin mirror match. Can lambda duck the C ice cars? What do you mean duck it? o.o
someonewhodied Posted July 29, 2011 Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) I blocked low and the ice car just went over and past me. 2A is the safest option during an ice car. Uploading video now. Edited July 29, 2011 by someonewhodied
Ryuujinx Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 I don't understand why you wouldn't just 6D the icecar if they're throwing them out, like at all. Actually, pretty sure you can do -> 6A(CH) Dash Cancel 3C 214A -> Stuff, can't you?
someonewhodied Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 You can, but 6D doesn't work on A or D ice cars. Unless you time it perfectly which is hard online. 2A is hard too of course, but it is much safer, and a bit easier for me. And its funnier. (It ties with D car, beats a and b, and makes C whiff)
FACE CLAIMER Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 even when i tech, i cant seem to escape his unlimted corner pressure options. any ideas?
kenja0 Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 That's just a natural problem Lambda has to deal with. Defense is mediocre. The best thing you can do is perfect block or barrier block to give yourself a little bit of an opening. Just recognize each of his pressure resetting opportunities and figure out which one he wants to do. 5B is neutral, 2B is -3, 5C is -6. If he jumps, 6Bs, or grabs then you have reasonable openings. I wouldn't try to do anything after his 6B or As. His 5B has 7 frames of startup and 5A has 6 so punish accordingly.
FACE CLAIMER Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 seems like CA is probably one of the better options if i get cornered by him...but saving that 50 heat for other uses could be even more essential.
Airk Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Things to remember when cornered by Jin: A) His overhead is still bad. Unless he has 50 heat to RC it, or you are mashing, he gets nothing from it. Block low on wakeup. B) Forward roll is probably a bad idea. C) He LOOOOVES to reset you in the air. When you tech, do it with Back+AB, and hold between hits so if you tech, you go into barrier guard. In fact, you may want to tech with Downback+AB so that he can't swipe you with a low when you land.
toanenadiz Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Things to remember when cornered by Jin: A) His overhead is still bad. Unless he has 50 heat to RC it, or you are mashing, he gets nothing from it. Block low on wakeup. You should just block his overhead. It is minus on block, so it ends his pressure once you block it. If you show them you don't care about his overhead, most of them will just spam it to get free meter and damage. It also probably makes it harder to react to when he has 50 meter if you have been ignoring for the rest of the match.
AchedSphinx Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Save that heat for a DP super. No. Saving it for a CA is much better than DP super. If he reads the DP, you're screwed, getting in a CA is a better option nine times out of ten. Jin is probably one of my better match-ups and I rarely use DP anymore. People are reading it quite easily now, so I only rely on CA to get out of pressure. His block strings aren't that bad either. Keep up the IB. If he does 6C, normally they go 623C right after so you can punish that.
toanenadiz Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 In CSEX, you lose a primer everytime you CA, which is why DP super will be better sometimes. There are certain times you can react with a DP super(like against 6B or between 623D hits).
AchedSphinx Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 In CSEX, you lose a primer everytime you CA, which is why DP super will be better sometimes. There are certain times you can react with a DP super(like against 6B or between 623D hits). CA is still safer, even then. Her DP is easy to read. The thing about her primers is that Lambda is fairly mobile so it's rare that she'll be in a guard breakable state, even with her having 4 primers in Extend. DP is effective though against gaps in their blockstrings since she can punish pretty easily to slow overheads and things like that. But under pressure, where you're knocked down and you have the option to do a wake up DP, I'd recommend CA instead. But if they read that as well, I guess you're outta luck haha.
toanenadiz Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 If you see the 6B or 623D come out, there is no reason to CA when you can DP super, so it isn't a matter of safeness. It is pretty easy to bait and punish Lambda's CA, so it isn't that much easier to bait and punish. You don't really want to use CA or DP super, just make sure they know you have it and will use it, so they will try to bait it. Edit: And I've seen a few matches where a Lambda had to burst and CA in the same round and it was hard for them to avoid being guard broken.
AchedSphinx Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 If you see the 6B or 623D come out, there is no reason to CA when you can DP super, so it isn't a matter of safeness. It is pretty easy to bait and punish Lambda's CA, so it isn't that much easier to bait and punish. You don't really want to use CA or DP super, just make sure they know you have it and will use it, so they will try to bait it. Edit: And I've seen a few matches where a Lambda had to burst and CA in the same round and it was hard for them to avoid being guard broken. If you saw 623D come out wouldn't it be better to just 5D 236C? I suppose that's spacing dependent. The problem with her DP is that it can screw you over if it's used and positioned in a bad spot. Say for instance, if Jin does 623D right in your face, you do it, and he's close enough that you can't reliably combo into jD etc. You might even miss a sword and you know where that will end. Also, if for instance you barrier block the first hit of 623D, won't it push Jin far enough away that her DP will miss, assuming you have one primer and are forced to do it. The most mind-boggling moments for me is when I punish a character directly in the corner, I try to figure out what to do next, but then I realize, 2C is the shit lol. Either way, Lambda's DP isn't something that should be relied on in a pinch. Both CA and DP have their strengths and weaknesses, but I much prefer CA.
toanenadiz Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 If you saw 623D come out wouldn't it be better to just 5D 236C? I suppose that's spacing dependent. The problem with her DP is that it can screw you over if it's used and positioned in a bad spot. Say for instance, if Jin does 623D right in your face, you do it, and he's close enough that you can't reliably combo into jD etc. You might even miss a sword and you know where that will end. Also, if for instance you barrier block the first hit of 623D, won't it push Jin far enough away that her DP will miss, assuming you have one primer and are forced to do it. The most mind-boggling moments for me is when I punish a character directly in the corner, I try to figure out what to do next, but then I realize, 2C is the shit lol. Either way, Lambda's DP isn't something that should be relied on in a pinch. Both CA and DP have their strengths and weaknesses, but I much prefer CA. Regardless of how it hits, you can still do a damaging combo from it. You just need to adjust your combo. Lambda's super DP is very good, so I don't see why you can't rely on it in a pinch. But I just realized this isn't really the place to keep discussing. We should probably talk about this in the general thread. And Jin can charge the 2nd hit of 623D. So it can be a frame trap in case you try to 5D it. If you just sit there, it turns unblockable. I don't like dealing with the mindgames associated with his 623D, so I DP or gold burst to avoid with it, unless he uses it near max range. Then you can just backdash and punish.
AchedSphinx Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Regardless of how it hits, you can still do a damaging combo from it. You just need to adjust your combo. Lambda's super DP is very good, so I don't see why you can't rely on it in a pinch. But I just realized this isn't really the place to keep discussing. We should probably talk about this in the general thread. And Jin can charge the 2nd hit of 623D. So it can be a frame trap in case you try to 5D it. If you just sit there, it turns unblockable. I don't like dealing with the mindgames associated with his 623D, so I DP or gold burst to avoid with it, unless he uses it near max range. Then you can just backdash and punish. My bad, but I see what you mean. Jin is one of my better matchups so I'm used to seeing what I want to punish.
Airk Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 You should just block his overhead. It is minus on block, so it ends his pressure once you block it. If you show them you don't care about his overhead, most of them will just spam it to get free meter and damage. It also probably makes it harder to react to when he has 50 meter if you have been ignoring for the rest of the match. Of course you should _TRY_ to block it. I'm not advocating just letting him hit you with it, but I'm saying that if you're GOING to be blocking one way or the other on wakeup, it's better to block low to avoid 2B combos and try to react to the 19 frame overhead, rather than block high to avoid the non-combos that usually come from 6A while trying to react to the 9 frame low. :P So yes. Block low on wakeup. Jin doesn't have good standard mixup, and he'll need to do some sort of shenanigans to land a combo if you follow the three points I laid out.
toanenadiz Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Of course you should _TRY_ to block it. I'm not advocating just letting him hit you with it, but I'm saying that if you're GOING to be blocking one way or the other on wakeup, it's better to block low to avoid 2B combos and try to react to the 19 frame overhead, rather than block high to avoid the non-combos that usually come from 6A while trying to react to the 9 frame low. :P So yes. Block low on wakeup. Jin doesn't have good standard mixup, and he'll need to do some sort of shenanigans to land a combo if you follow the three points I laid out. Isn't blocking low common against every character? It isn't something that is really specific to Jin. I can only think of maybe 2 characters where I would block high instead of low.
BeaverDeity Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 I don't ever block primarily high lol. Overheads are much slower startup than most normal lows, so guarding low and reacting to overheads is usually the best bet if you are relying on reactions
Airk Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Isn't blocking low common against every character? It isn't something that is really specific to Jin. I can only think of maybe 2 characters where I would block high instead of low. Yet people get hit and reset by Jin's lows all the dang time. You be the judge of whether people need the advice or not. :P
toanenadiz Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 I don't ever block primarily high lol. Overheads are much slower startup than most normal lows, so guarding low and reacting to overheads is usually the best bet if you are relying on reactions Litchi with staff. 4D hurts more than 3C[m] and 3C[m] is easy to react to. Yet people get hit and reset by Jin's lows all the dang time. You be the judge of whether people need the advice or not. :P People don't usually have that issue on wake-up though... It is usually the jumping overhead/land->low mix-up that gets people. Or the throw tricks.
kenja0 Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 Litchi with staff. 4D hurts more than 3C[m] and 3C[m] is easy to react to. People don't usually have that issue on wake-up though... It is usually the jumping overhead/land->low mix-up that gets people. Or the throw tricks. With a grain of salt. Now with Jin, you never have to block high and worry that much until he has 50 Heat. If he hits with 6A, big deal, you take some damage: react faster next time. Don't forget that Jin has some pretty damn good mixup in it of itself- staggering normals, lows/highs, IAD crossovers and feints, etc. Also, with the CA thing... everyone depends on Counter Assaults to bail them out of every situation just because it's "safer"... then you get grabbed when you condition yourself into thinking "I'll just block into CA their next hit"... and this TOTALLY works on Carl anyway. Calamity Sword is bad because it can be blocked, and you get mega-punished... Counter Assaults can be baited too, they just have less recovery. Here's the thing, read into it what you want. Do what you feel will comfortably work into your situation. Use all your options equally and fairly, but go with your gut instead of doing what you see or hear 'pros' say. Sometimes, it becomes second nature to react with your option when you know it will work. For instance, Buppa knows Kaqn's Ragna game so much, he knows exactly when Ragna is going for an overhead and punishes with a 236236B. I like 632146D to punish the big hitters and condition them into being less aggressive, but it isn't my go to reversal 100% of the time. I'll do CA sometimes to throw people off, keep the momentum of the match going instead of a long cinematic interrupting. You want to break all bad habits, but you also want to play comfortably your own way and make it so you never doubt yourself.
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