Kuuhaku Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) I know you guys are mostly talking about this in the general thread, but I figured this might as well be here just in case. I'll keep track of things as I hear about them. Also feel free to post changes as you hear of them here. Recent Known Changes Buffs: j2C - Can now special cancel in the air on hit. Normal and special cancelable on block after landing. 6B - Wallbounds on counter hit. Using wind after wallbound allows for easy followup. 6C - Damage increased for using wind to land multiple hits. Nerfs: 2C - P1 proration weakened, decreasing combo damage from counter hit. 6B- no longer jump cancellable (needs confirmation) 5CC- no longer breaks a primer Edited September 28, 2011 by Bohemian Polka
gli Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 As mentioned before, if j.2C is air special cancellable on hit, this would mean the return of CT style oki for Rachel in terms of ending air combos with j.2C. air combo > j.2C ender > j.214B ...which means another way of baiting DP.
gli Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 If they want to get rid of stupid damage from mashing one move I think it's warranted ;D That said though, I'm going to miss that combo lol.
kotokot Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 wait what? 2.1k dmg? p1*p2 on chair is ~40% if damage haven't changed. Now it's 80%*94%=75.2%. Either they killed chair, either it's now dp. Btw i've seen somewhere in changes "j.236a>j.2c lv3" does not works.
[SpA]Relentless Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 From a Japo Blog: 2C1D, 6A, BBL = 2.1k lolol Lookin' pretty CS1 right there...
huey253 Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 From a Japo Blog: 2C1D, 6A, BBL = 2.1k lolol HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
gli Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 Like that's what made her good in the first place. She didn't need that crap in CT -_- Although that damage readout is pretty ridiculous lol
huey253 Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 i mean, atleast it has a good guardpoint still... CS1 rachel had neither. the damage was pretty ridiculous before anyways... the risk vs reward was kinda skewed againist some of the weaker characters in CS2
kotokot Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 yes, 2c dmg is too much now, but 2.1k from chair to bbl is like dp>rc>combo or even lower, but chair is fucking bad as compared to dp.
Tari Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Throw invuln. Here's hoping :3 That would be hilarious (and sort of ridiculous). j.2c being air cancellable again means we can do troll j.2c loops again! Whoo~.
Kuuhaku Posted August 13, 2011 Author Posted August 13, 2011 From a Japo Blog: 2C1D, 6A, BBL = 2.1k lolol If you do the whole combo, you should still get 4k, so that's actually not bad.
[SpA]Relentless Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) If you do the whole combo, you should still get 4k, so that's actually not bad. If you can you actually do the whole combo afterwards. I mean, BBL is the third hit in the combo and it seems that it already deals minimum damage at this point, so the proration must be pretty bad. I don't think you can exceed 3k. Edited August 13, 2011 by [SpA]Relentless
Soniti Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 That damage might be a result of a BBL damage nerf too. We'll have to wait and see.
TD Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 6k from cat chair was a bit over the top lol. i'm fine with 3k personally if we can get that with 1 wind. l'm really loving the new j2c though. it could still be used to bait throws with 50 heat
kotokot Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 if damage is same on bbl and etc, full combo will be 3-3.5k, ragna does 3500 with 623c rc, makoto 3.3k tensionless and 4.5k with tension. I'm fine with 3k only if it has full invul fron 1 frame and better startup=(
wuku Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 In CS2, 2C > 6A > BBL does around 2.8k. Followup combo takes significant portion of the overall 5K dmg. They only nerfed Cat Chair, no change on BBL I believe. Anyway, here are the info I got from BBS - 6B: no more jump cancellable - 6B: on counter hit, you can do follow up combo really easily. Hit confirm is also easy too. but if your opponent is too far away from the wall (like you hit 6B when you're cornered), it doesn't wall bound but just slide down. - Poll BBL : no change. 1 poll full dmg 456. 2 poll full dmg 846 - J2C > Iris : this combo works only at High Jump Aerial. If you're not high enough, opponent would recover before Iris comes out. - 6A > 5B> JB > JA > JB > JC > (jc) > J2C > Iris > 5B > JC > 2D > JC > BBL = around 3K - Cat Chair > BBL > Frog > 3C > B Lobelia > 5B > JC > J2C (lvl 2) > B Lobelia > JC > JC > Iris > BBL = 4600 Assuming this 4600 dmg combo is correct, my guess for the cat chair data is Damage around 700, P1 70%, P2 85%.
kotokot Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 it seems good. Chair still does good damage, but not so retarded; CH 6B is now usable; j2c>iris can be used for winless relaunch, i don't think it's optimal route if you have wind and tension. And i think can be used on some chars/sometimes 6A>5B>sj.b>j.[c]>j.c>dj.2c>iris for wery good windless damage. Or something like 3c/5cc>frog.
Jason D. Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Hmm. Well, the 2C part definitely sounds like they're kneejerk-ing. "Oh my god, there was this one video where someone (with two poles set up and in the corner) did 6K damage!" What a strong move! Oh, it's slow to start, loses to throws, and guarantees the hardest punish available if baited? Well let's nevermind that stuff, and just react to this number we see and don't understand..." Seriously though, it's only 5.2K, and that's with 50% and 2 or 3 winds available. Is that so far from what damage the opponent, with similar meter and resources, is going to do back if they bait it? Not to mention they can just run up and throw, which is 100% safe every time (worst you're going to get is a throw tech). Damage reduction isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if they're going to nerf the reward they need to do something to reduce the risk too. 1f startup would be fun (but unlikely), and I think throw invul would be perfect. Though in reality, I'm sure they'll do none of this, and just nerf the damage. Hopefully they just won't go overboard, and make the move worthless. In other news, 6B not having a jump cancel takes away some of my most fun combos, but as long 6B gives a wall bounce and combo, it's not a big deal. The j.2C allowing air pumpkin summons is awesome, though with no block cancelling (at ALL? seriously?) you're NEVER going to see the move outside of combos anymore. It will never be worth the risk. Unless they feel like compensating by making it an overhead again. Which they won't. Also, if anyone knows, did they ever say WHY the BBL, j.236A, level 3 j.2C trick no longer works? In case some people weren't aware, this wasn't a bug. She was at the proper height and fall speed to get the level 3. The j.236A was just to stall for time in the air, and ensure that the opponent didn't get bounced away from her after the last hit of the BBL. (They will always bounce backwards in relation to which direction Rachel is currently facing). So what changed? Air lobelias not allowing you to recover at all until you hit the ground would be unfortunate. And the opponent always bouncing away from her after a BBL would suck a lot. For instance, right now if you didn't want to risk the j.236A timing, you could just BBL, super jump 8D (moving a little higher than at j.236A distance), then air dash forward and 2D j.2C. Works exactly the same, but for two winds instead of one. But if they started bouncing the wrong direction, well... it'll be very hard to BBL, level 3 them anymore, if possible at all. Unless they're in the corner. Where you could still just do it for 1 wind anyway, the old-fashioned way. (And what's the point of this change, exactly?)
unsanctifier Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 - 6A > 5B> JB > JA > JB > JC > (jc) > J2C > Iris > 5B > JC > 2D > JC > BBL = around 3K that sounds like it is a decent corner carry combo if you're out of everything haha I don't really care for the 2C nerf to be honest. Now with Wuku's new information it sort of doesn't even seem like a big nerf. The one wind j2C trick being nerfed sounds likes a silly idea. 6b not being jump cancelable is REALLY lame, I tend to autopilot into 2b 5b 6b jump 3d land 2b for mixup :< but we can live without it! All in all they don't seem to be doing much for or against rachel. Just switching her back and fourth between shit. Now if we got a useful fatal counter like a few other characters got I'd be pretty happy :3
gli Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 I think forced j.2C Fatal Counter is really really useful. I'm surprised they haven't messed with her wind regen though. I guess where it is now is a happy medium.
unsanctifier Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 I think forced j.2C Fatal Counter is really really useful. I'm surprised they haven't messed with her wind regen though. I guess where it is now is a happy medium. It is really cool and helps so much with some other combos. But I get so jealous of other people's counters, I'm allowed to dream!
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