Kuuhaku Posted August 21, 2011 Author Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) After trying that crap out with Lambda, Rachel will likely never get a true reversal. Also, CS2 cat chair is much better than Ragna's DP (which is kind of messed up). I'd personally like if TD was invincible on start up... but for all the other crap it does (safe, breaks up to two primers, and regains crazy wind), I don't think that's going to happen. Lessee... DP if baited will get you killed. If it hits you get 1k. Cat Chair if baited will get you killed, but gets like 5k+ and summon oki if it hits... Cat chair can also break a primer and is safe with setups outside of RC. Pretty much the only thing better we could ask for would be CS2 Noel's 2D and 4D. :V Edited August 21, 2011 by Bohemian Polka
[SpA]Relentless Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Lessee... DP if baited will get you killed. If it hits you get 1k. Cat Chair if baited will get you killed, but gets like 5k+ and summon oki if it hits... Cat Chair doesn't need to be baited at all times though cause it loses to throws and meaties - both things that would lose to a real DP. Both have their ups and downs. Cat chair can also break a primer and is safe with setups outside of RC. A real DP could prolly be made safe with setups too. That's got nothing to do with the cat chair. Regardless as you said, she will most likely never get a real DP. And I personally also think 5k+ is a bit over the top for a character that's supposed to have weak defense.
Tari Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 She doesn't need a real dp. There's no reason to give her one, nor is there any reason to make cat chair into one. It'd just be hilarious if it had dp-like invuln on it. :>
Kuuhaku Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Relentless;1109403']Cat Chair doesn't need to be baited at all times though cause it loses to throws and meaties - both things that would lose to a real DP. Both have their ups and downs. A real DP could prolly be made safe with setups too. That's got nothing to do with the cat chair. Regardless as you said, she will most likely never get a real DP. And I personally also think 5k+ is a bit over the top for a character that's supposed to have weak defense. Tell me what setup most characters with a DP (that means not counting Mu who has steins and relatively safe DPs like Hakumen) can do to make their DP safe on whiff and block outside of RC (which doesn't cover whiff). A meaty only comes up if you're trying to 2C on wake up. Why would you do that unless you wanted to kill yourself when you have better options like tech + wind? Anyway, because of the CS2 hitstop change cat chair is very hard to bait compared to most autoguard moves because if they hit cat chair's auto guard a lot of times they won't have time to chain into throw because they're stuck in hitstop (most situations you cannot). This is even true in situations where they try to RC (for example, some of Tager's moves... even if he RCs he'll still get hit). Also, if pumpkin is out you can't really bait it at all as Rachel can punish you for trying to punish her. And it is very important (especially for some characters) to keep cat chair in mind... especially since Rachel gets 5k + oki off of it if she has meter and at least 3.5k with no meter. That does more than most characters BnBs mid screen. Or did you not see that video where Matsu almost killed Hima because Hima forgot about cat chair and got hit with a 7k+ combo? Edited August 23, 2011 by Bohemian Polka
gli Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Yeah 2C CH in mirrors is so annoying. It's like 2D except not as universally useful. For some reason it really shines as a useful tool in the mirror.
[SpA]Relentless Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Tell me what setup most characters with a DP (that means not counting Mu who has steins and relatively safe DPs like Hakumen) can do to make their DP safe on whiff and block outside of RC (which doesn't cover whiff). Now don't switch things up here. I wasn't talking about how other characters can make their DP safe, I was mentioning how Rachel could make her DP safe if she had one. And it would work just like with 2C - by using it together with frog/pumpkin. A meaty only comes up if you're trying to 2C on wake up. Why would you do that unless you wanted to kill yourself when you have better options like tech + wind? Because I sometimes play like a retard and anticipate overheads instead of reacting to them Anyway it just proves my point. The opponent knows I can do nothing against meaties so he can always do them on my wakeup without having to worry about anything. If I had a DP, he'd have to respect it unless he's willing to give up momentum. And it is very important (especially for some characters) to keep cat chair in mind... especially since Rachel gets 5k + oki off of it if she has meter and at least 3.5k with no meter. That does more than most characters BnBs mid screen. Or did you not see that video where Matsu almost killed Hima because Hima forgot about cat chair and got hit with a 7k+ combo? I never said 2C is worse than a real DP in every aspect - of course the damage potential + oki is an obvious advantage. I am merely saying that a DP is easier to use and covers more options. Yeah 2C CH in mirrors is so annoying. It's like 2D except not as universally useful. For some reason it really shines as a useful tool in the mirror. Players never know how to deal with their own bullshit
gli Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Yeah when you finally find someone else that can use her as well as you can or even better it starts to get to you. I'm mostly speaking from online experiences. Offline mirrors are way more playable and easier to deal with all the crap on screen :D I want to play with CS2+ CH 6B already.
Kuuhaku Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 Relentless;1111523'] DPs can also be baited on wake up. So what you're saying about DPing on wake up if you think they're going to meaty is not 100%. You don't really have to respect DP at all if you have DP safe oki. And even then, if the punish is big enough (and it is for most characters), they're the ones who are scared about DPing. Rachel for one has plenty. For example, if Rachel got j.2C knock down and did 2A whiff oki... it's a very bad idea for Ragna to DP on wake up as if it hits, he gets 1k... but if Rachel decides to do nothing she gets corner carry + a lot more damage than 1k. :V And that's how a DP is. You're supposed to think about it before using it. 2C in some situations, you don't even really have to as the risk v. reward is in your favor (if you have pumpkin out then there is no risk even if you fuck up and have no meter). That's why I say it's better than most DPs in the game. I suppose another advantage is that you don't have to do the option select to avoid cross ups. Now don't get me wrong... cat chair is not the best thing ever... but it is way stronger than it should be.
TTRlovesMittens Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Hey guys, according to Xie in the CS2 news thread, all of the nonsense regarding Rachel's j.2c has been reverted back. I guess this means it cancels on block however it no longer can cancel in the air. I wonder why they flipped it back... Anyway all I know is we're basically at square 1 again. Oh and the 6C damage buff sounds interesting, but it still probably prorates to hell.
tofurr Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 hakimiru translation is different than what xie posted in the loketest thread. His says it can still be cancelled in air on hit and can be normal and special cancelled on block or hit when landed. Which is it? :0
gli Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Rachel - j2C - Can now special cancel in the air on hit. Normal and special cancelable on block after landing. 6B - Wallbounds on counter hit. Using wind after wallbound allows for easy followup. 6C - Damage increased for using wind to land multiple hits. 2C - P1 proration weakened, decreasing combo damage from counter hit. Here it is for reference.
Chazmobile Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 If the j2c thing means that it's cancelable on block again in addition to in the air, then Rachel is looking pretty CT there. Me likey Actually, it probably means that she can do the lvl 2 j2c trick with 236a. Maybe?
Soniti Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 hakimiru translation is different than what xie posted in the loketest thread. His says it can still be cancelled in air on hit and can be normal and special cancelled on block or hit when landed. Which is it? :0 After reading this, I agree with Hakimiru's translation. I think Xie has it wrong. And no, odds of them giving back the j.236a whiff fatal trick are slim to none.
Tari Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 We still don't have any info as to what was changed to make the j.236a trick stop working, do we? I still don't think it really makes a difference, except that we lose a free pole setup from doing the BBL combo.
TD Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 wow... saddening. guardcrush combo took a hit. now 5cc is just combo fodder
Jason D. Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Oh, that's unfortunate. Though I have to admit, I've noticed that I really don't use 5CC in blockstrings anymore since CS2 came to be.
[SpA]Relentless Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 As long as they don't nerf anything that matters (pumpkin, frog, wind, damage)... Also since CA now takes away a primer from you, I think it's actually a fair change.
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